SPOILER ALERT! There is no Santa Clause!

[Coldfire]

I know this is a somewhat silly topic to discuss, but I honestly feel a little guilty about not continuing this storytelling tradition that my family and millions of other families keep alive. And what better time of the year than now?

So is it wrong to tell your little one that you "will buy them presents" instead of telling them that whole tale about Santa and his elves who live in the North Pole? I want my daughter to experience the good things of the holidays, the music, the cheer, the smells, the food and the toys. I loved these things growing up and I want her to love it to and have good memories too, but I don’t want to spin a yarn about it... I remember when I figured out there was no Santa, it didn’t really bother me. But on the other hand there was a lot of excitement when I just "KNEW I heard Santa’s reindeer on the roof!" and ran to look out the window.

So is it wrong to deny her that one piece of excitement about there being a jolly fat man who gives her presents?

[Cain]

Not to take the fun out of all this, but Santa is an archetypal image, just like god, satan, devils, angels, vampires, etc.
As was said earlier the fertile imagination of the child only becomes dulled and in many instances, eradicated completely. This is a shame and a disgrace and should be avoided at all cost, one of our greatest attributes as evolved beings is our imagination, to destroy that is to help destroy our spirit.

Like the OP said "it didn’t really bother me" . . . and that is the way it is for most well adjusted individuals as they grow up, it's ok, it was fun, and Mommy & Daddy didn't 'lie' to me . . . on the other hand "they lied to me" is what the maladjusted mind thinks and is detrimental to the psyche, a terrible dysfunction that is usually introduced by way of religious moral values and on the flip side from atheistic beliefs, both extremes in my opinion to be destroyers of the soul/spirit.

Hail Santa!

[Choir Loft]

very good points Mccullough, thanks for your input.

It is very important to me for my daughter to be a critical thinker and use her brain in life.

I think that if she believes in Santa Claus by what her mom tells her, than theres no harm done. And i wont test her belief mischeiviously, that is just disturbing.

she should have her fun, and be able to pretend Santa is real if she wants.

From the choir loft:

SANTA CLAUS IS REAL!

When I was a kid I asked my mother if there was a Santa Claus and she said, "as long as someone loves you there will be a Santa Claus."

Think about it. In this jaded age there are no real fantasies and no magic, only machinery and machine thoughts.

How about a little humanity in the holiday? Don't be a machine, have a heart.

[imagesofjesus]

I have a good friend who teaches her little ones that there is no Santa. I guess I just don't understand the harm in giving kids something special to look forward to under the Christmas tree.

[dianaiad]

very good points Mccullough, thanks for your input.

It is very important to me for my daughter to be a critical thinker and use her brain in life.

I think that if she believes in Santa Claus by what her mom tells her, than theres no harm done. And i wont test her belief mischeiviously, that is just disturbing.

she should have her fun, and be able to pretend Santa is real if she wants.

From the choir loft:

SANTA CLAUS IS REAL!

When I was a kid I asked my mother if there was a Santa Claus and she said, "as long as someone loves you there will be a Santa Claus."

Think about it. In this jaded age there are no real fantasies and no magic, only machinery and machine thoughts.

How about a little humanity in the holiday? Don't be a machine, have a heart.

OK, so...why aren't you a member of my group?

(see 'Believes in Santa" under my name)

Someone with your attitude absolutely belongs in it.

[Logomachist]

IMO Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny are religious symbols which, despite the fact that they grew out of Christianity, are essentially pagan gods. Santa Claus is a god that lives at the north pole and can be worshiped by leaving cookies and milk out on Christmas Eve. The Easter Bunny is a god that brings candy eggs to children and sponsors Easter Egg hunts. They have secular appeal because they have no scripture or doctrine attached; they appeal to family values and entertain children. But anthropologically speaking they're still myths*. Therefore they should be treated as any other mythology... teach your children what you believe but inform them of other options and let them make their own choices.


* Which isn't to say they're totally untrue... if you believe that goodness IS rewarded and secrets ARE worth searching for maybe you should worship Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny

[Thatguy]

IMO Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny are religious symbols which, despite the fact that they grew out of Christianity, are essentially pagan gods. Santa Claus is a god that lives at the north pole and can be worshiped by leaving cookies and milk out on Christmas Eve. The Easter Bunny is a god that brings candy eggs to children and sponsors Easter Egg hunts. They have secular appeal because they have no scripture or doctrine attached; they appeal to family values and entertain children. But anthropologically speaking they're still myths*. Therefore they should be treated as any other mythology... teach your children what you believe but inform them of other options and let them make their own choices.


* Which isn't to say they're totally untrue... if you believe that goodness IS rewarded and secrets ARE worth searching for maybe you should worship Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny

Seeing as the Santa Claus discussion is so timely and not at all a random renewal of an old conversation:

I can live with whatever decision a parent decides to make regarding Santa Claus. Not being raised a Christian, I was never raised to believe in Santa Claus, though I had a period where I did anyway. At age 4, a neighbor's uncle visited our house dressed as Santa and I told my father that I knew he would come. One of my earliest memories and it was magical.

As a teen I detested the lie the way a teen might detest Barney- as a way of showing he's all grown up and has set aside childish things. Yet the strong antipathy indicates a lack of having fully outgrown such things, there's a need to prove that one is too old for it, a need that is outgrown by most later on.

Not sharing in the lie is difficult for kids raised never to believe. Other kids are so sure that the kid raised without the myth wonders if his or her own parents are wrong. It's tough for a kid to figure out who the deceived ones are.

As an agnostic atheist, I'd think that people learning that their culture had been tricking them all this time about a Santa they were sure was real would cause them to question what other magical gift bringers and punishers of evildoers might also be mythical, but it doesn't seem to get beyond maybe the tooth fairy or easter bunny as well.

Now the kind act of the neighbor's uncle reverberates in my life. I have become that man. Every year I become Santa. I respect the decisions of those parents who choose not to involve themselves with the myth making. But the joy that kids feel when they participate in the cultural storytelling brings me great happiness. I don't see it as religious at all, but if some parents or children do then I go along with that, too. Some children are too old to believe and want to prove that they aren't fooled. I just ask them to help me keep the magic for the little ones and that sometimes works, they can then enjoy being part of passing on the tradition to the littler, more gullible ones. There are less ambivalent Santas in the world, but not many who enjoy it more.

[dianaiad]

IMO Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny are religious symbols which, despite the fact that they grew out of Christianity, are essentially pagan gods. Santa Claus is a god that lives at the north pole and can be worshiped by leaving cookies and milk out on Christmas Eve. The Easter Bunny is a god that brings candy eggs to children and sponsors Easter Egg hunts. They have secular appeal because they have no scripture or doctrine attached; they appeal to family values and entertain children. But anthropologically speaking they're still myths*. Therefore they should be treated as any other mythology... teach your children what you believe but inform them of other options and let them make their own choices.


* Which isn't to say they're totally untrue... if you believe that goodness IS rewarded and secrets ARE worth searching for maybe you should worship Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny

Seeing as the Santa Claus discussion is so timely and not at all a random renewal of an old conversation:

I can live with whatever decision a parent decides to make regarding Santa Claus. Not being raised a Christian, I was never raised to believe in Santa Claus, though I had a period where I did anyway. At age 4, a neighbor's uncle visited our house dressed as Santa and I told my father that I knew he would come. One of my earliest memories and it was magical.

As a teen I detested the lie the way a teen might detest Barney- as a way of showing he's all grown up and has set aside childish things. Yet the strong antipathy indicates a lack of having fully outgrown such things, there's a need to prove that one is too old for it, a need that is outgrown by most later on.

Not sharing in the lie is difficult for kids raised never to believe. Other kids are so sure that the kid raised without the myth wonders if his or her own parents are wrong. It's tough for a kid to figure out who the deceived ones are.

As an agnostic atheist, I'd think that people learning that their culture had been tricking them all this time about a Santa they were sure was real would cause them to question what other magical gift bringers and punishers of evildoers might also be mythical, but it doesn't seem to get beyond maybe the tooth fairy or easter bunny as well.

Now the kind act of the neighbor's uncle reverberates in my life. I have become that man. Every year I become Santa. I respect the decisions of those parents who choose not to involve themselves with the myth making. But the joy that kids feel when they participate in the cultural storytelling brings me great happiness. I don't see it as religious at all, but if some parents or children do then I go along with that, too. Some children are too old to believe and want to prove that they aren't fooled. I just ask them to help me keep the magic for the little ones and that sometimes works, they can then enjoy being part of passing on the tradition to the littler, more gullible ones. There are less ambivalent Santas in the world, but not many who enjoy it more.

You are the sort of person I invented the 'Believes in Santa' group FOR. Care to join those of us who, like my mother told me, and I told my kids..."he's real, until he's you..??"

[Thatguy]

You are the sort of person I invented the 'Believes in Santa' group FOR. Care to join those of us who, like my mother told me, and I told my kids..."he's real, until he's you..??"

I debated joining. In many ways, identifying that I don't believe in Santa says a lot about me. So I should join that group. In many ways, particularly since I am Santa, I do believe in Santa and that says a lot about me. So what the heck, I'll join both groups. These certainly aren't the only seemingly contradictory truths I embrace at once.

[Quath]

Learning Santa was not real was a strong force in my deconversion from Christianity. So it taught me to understand my own biases in believing things which probably led to me becoming a scientist.

My wife is atheist and we talked about what to do with the kids about Santa, Easter Bunny, etc. We decided to go along with it. It is after all a game of pretends that you play with the kids. However, when a child really questions, I don't think the parent should like to continue the game.

And it is a lie if you are playing semantics to give an answer that leads them to a false conclusion. My mother said she justified her lie by saying, "Santa is real because I am Santa." She knew that was not my question. Knowing she would lie to protect a belief was a reason I could not talk to her about my religious questions at that age.

So I would suggest doing it if you think it would be fun. But treat it as a game and play with your kids. But when they question, be honest. You don't have to stop the game after that, you can still both "pretend" for as long as it is fun.

[Thatguy]

Learning Santa was not real was a strong force in my deconversion from Christianity. So it taught me to understand my own biases in believing things which probably led to me becoming a scientist.

My wife is atheist and we talked about what to do with the kids about Santa, Easter Bunny, etc. We decided to go along with it. It is after all a game of pretends that you play with the kids. However, when a child really questions, I don't think the parent should like to continue the game.

And it is a lie if you are playing semantics to give an answer that leads them to a false conclusion. My mother said she justified her lie by saying, "Santa is real because I am Santa." She knew that was not my question. Knowing she would lie to protect a belief was a reason I could not talk to her about my religious questions at that age.

So I would suggest doing it if you think it would be fun. But treat it as a game and play with your kids. But when they question, be honest. You don't have to stop the game after that, you can still both "pretend" for as long as it is fun.

Good points. My initial response as Santa when kids asked if I was the real Santa was to say "Metaphorically." I found that for some reason that satisfied zero six year olds. Kids these days. Now I just ask them what they think and let them know that I'm as real as they think I am. Some parents keep arguing with their kids, trying to prolong the story. I don't approve, but I usually let them do it their way. In my experience, those kids feel conflicted and unhappy knowing that the story almost certainly isn't true but feeling compelled to keep their doubts secret. I've had more than one light up with relief when I take them aside and tell them they are right, I'm really just me, but they are old enough to play along for the little ones now.