The Purpose of the Penal system

McCulloch · Post by **McCulloch** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 8:23 pm

To varying degrees the penal system in modern countries may serve the following functions:

Punishment | Retribution
Deterrent
Protection
Rehabilitation.

Which is the primary function of the penal system? Which should be the primary function of the penal system? Which function does the penal system currently do best?

juliod · Post by **juliod** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 9:05 pm

A.

All of the above.

None of the above.

DanZ

McCulloch · Post by **McCulloch** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 9:24 pm

juliod wrote:A.

All of the above.

None of the above.

DanZ

OK, how about least bad?

hannahjoy · Post by **hannahjoy** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 10:20 pm

I pretty much agree with DanZ, except that I would prefer the term "justice" to "punishment," and I think D. would be better done apart from the penal system.
I would also prefer corporal punishment to fines or imprisonment. I think prisons, except for temporary detention, are a waste of the tax-payers' money.
I like the philosophy of the Humane Mikado - "to let the punishment fit the crime."

Hannah Joy

ShieldAxe · Post by **ShieldAxe** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 10:26 pm

hannahjoy wrote:I pretty much agree with DanZ, except that I would prefer the term "justice" to "punishment," and I think D. would be better done apart from the penal system.
I would also prefer corporal punishment to fines or imprisonment. I think prisons, except for temporary detention, are a waste of the tax-payers' money.
I like the philosophy of the Humane Mikado - "to let the punishment fit the crime."

Hannah Joy

corporal punishment is humane?

hannahjoy · Post by **hannahjoy** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 10:50 pm

The Mikado said "A more humane Mikado never did in Japan exist." You can argue about it with him if you like (wait till you hear his punishments).

Scrotum · Post by **Scrotum** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 8:47 am

Question to both of you, if the penalty should fit the crime so to speak, how would you punish a Theif? Take his clothes? I mean, how do you judge what a "fitting" punishment to certain things.

Vladd44 · Post by **Vladd44** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 10:35 am

The primary function of the Penal system in my country is to make a profit by putting non violent drug offenders in prisons.

The effect being to begat more violence and problems in our cities.

As far as the "should" aspect, With some prioritization I believe it could be effective in protecting people from dangerous people.

But first we would need to legalize all drugs, guns, prostitution and other behavioral "morality" crimes. Due to the reality that well over half of the people in prison are doing time for non violent drug charges, this would free up the room for people who really are a menace to society.

Rapists, Child Predators and people who commit murder with intent should be imprisoned for the rest of their lives. No parole, no pardon. The only two ways out should be a body bag or a retrial.

Other violent crimes should consider punitive measures with an effort of rehabilitation. But I think that punitive financial penalities could often have a much better effect, and cheaper on the population as whole.

As far as Corporal Punishment, well I will have to side with your Jesus there HannahJoy.

Matthew 26:52 wrote:Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

Violence breeds violence, and a society that punishes with violence can only expect to incite further violence.

micatala · Post by **micatala** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 12:15 pm

Which is the primary function of the penal system?

Well, my offhand impression (I will not say I am very knowledgeable on the penal system or statistics on its effectiveness, etc.) is that it currently functions predominantly as punishment, and least effectively with respect to rehabilitation.

Which should be the primary function of the penal system?

If we are talking about a penal system consisting primarily of incarceration facilities, then I would say we should structure these facilities to keep the most dangerous criminals off the street (protection), and to rehabilitate as many as possible. An effective rehabilitation system would obviously promote protection and diminish the need for punishment.

Which function does the penal system currently do best?

Hard to say, but I guess I would rank the system as doing a best, then b, then c, then d.

hannahjoy wrote:The Mikado said "A more humane Mikado never did in Japan exist." You can argue about it with him if you like (wait till you hear his punishments).

Not being familiar with the Mikado, I would be interested in hearing more about this. I certainly think we could use more imagination, creativity, and flexibility in dealing with criminals. Our current system does not, in my view, provide adequate possibilities for healing, rehabilitation, or even real justice.

The Persnickety Platypus · Sun Dec 04, 2005 8:26 pm

I would also prefer corporal punishment to fines or imprisonment.

I have always found this a strange view for a Christian to possess.

Romans 12:17
Don't pay people back with evil for the evil they do to you.
(See also- 1 Thess 5:15)

Matt 5:38
"You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.' But I tell you not to oppose an evil person.

Mat 5:7
Blessed are those who show mercy. They will be treated mercifully.

Is forgiveness not a Christian value (Matt 18:21-22)? How can a murderer rectify his sins if he is promptly executed? Didn't Jesus always allow sinners a second chance? Consider this one:

John 8:3-11 (parts omitted)
The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught committing adultery. They made her stand in front of everyone and asked Jesus, "Teacher, we caught this woman in the act of adultery. In his teachings, Moses ordered us to stone women like this to death. What do you say?" "The person who is sinless should be the first to throw a stone at her." One by one, beginning with the older men, the scribes and Pharisees left. Jesus was left alone with the woman. Then Jesus straightened up and asked her, "Where did they go? Has anyone condemned you?" The woman answered, "No one, sir." Jesus said, "I don't condemn you either. Go! From now on don't sin."

It just does not get any clearer than that. The woman commited a sin deserving of death, and Jesus forgave her.

I think prisons, except for temporary detention, are a waste of the tax-payers' money.

And the billions we spend on pointless capital trials are not?

Matthew 26:52 wrote:
Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

Violence breeds violence, and a society that punishes with violence can only expect to incite further violence.

Wonderful verse. Indeed, violence breeds violence, breeds violence, breeds violence. Such is the summary of human history. Time for a new tactic. Lets break the cycle of aggression.

Which should be the primary function of the penal system?

e. All of the above.

I believe each function encompasses one another. The threat of retribution creates a deterrent effect, which if used along with an effective method of rehabilitation, can help ensure the public's protection.

Of course, that would be the ideal system. The current system seems to but A (punishment) as the top priority. Too bad this is of no real use, aside from inflating the ego of our irrationally vengeful public.