Make a purely secular argument for 1 woman & 1 man.

[jmvizanko]

The only arguments I have ever seen for forcing the definition of marriage to be only one woman and one man fall into 2 categories. One is an argument that is derived from somebody's religion, say for example, Christianity suggesting 1 woman and 1 man. The other is an argument from majority/tradition, say for example, most or many cultures throughout history defined marriage this way, so that's what it should be.

In America, we have a bill of rights that clearly states we should not have a state religion. Therefore the first argument does not suffice for a justification for making gay marriage, or polygamy, illegal in the US. The second argument seems to be used when the first argument fails, namely because of the above reason I just gave. But it also fails because we have a bill of rights that clearly states we have a right to practice religion freely. If your religion allows polygamy, the American government in no way has a right to deny your practice of it. And both fail in basic principle that they are based on ethnocentricity and are anti personal freedom, and I have no clue how anyone could put either argument forward and still spout that they love America because it stands for freedom.

The only convincing argument that wouldn't violate the first amendment or the respect of personal freedom would be one based solely on logic. I challenge anyone to present such an argument, that is not derived from their religion, their personal preferences, or the basis that their religion/culture should rule all others.

[East of Eden]

By the way, almost all the Catholic scandals were a homosexual issue, as most of the perpetrators and victims were male.

For all of human history marriage has been seen as between men and women, yet to you that is 'peculiar'. You can't make this stuff up.

Incorrect. Most of those were PEDOPHILE incidences. The male victims got the publicity (plus , because of the altar boys, and the structure of the boarding schools, the priests had more access to young boys), but there were a substancial number of female victims.

It was homosexual pedophilia, the vast majority of those involved were male. There is an embarrassing link between the two issues.

You do keep on promoting misinformation. The vast number of pedophiles are heterosexual in their adult relations (the same percentage that are heterosexual in the non-pedophole population.).

Nonsense. Homosexuals are far more likely to molest children.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2258616/posts

"Among the reasons Dailey cited for being concerned about the potential for homosexual molestation of boys:

-- Almost all sex crimes against children are committed by men and significant numbers of victims are males. In 1996, the journal Adolescence reported several studies indicate that up to one-third of all sex crimes against children are committed against boys.

-- Even homosexual activists don't try to hide the connection with pedophilia. In The Gay Report -- a book published back in 1979 -- authors Karla Jay and Allen Young found that 73 percent of those surveyed had had sexual relations with males 16 to 19 or younger.

-- A 1999 article in the Journal of Homosexuality by Helmut Graupner argued that same-sex relations with minors should be considered a gay rights issue. The article argued that children wouldn't necessarily be harmed by sexual contact with adults."

"It showed that 8 million girls were abused by age 18 by heterosexual men, a ratio of 1 victim to 11 adult men. However, 6-8 million boys were abused by age 18 by 1-2 million adult homosexuals, a ratio of 3-5 victims for every gay adult."

Here is Obama's former "safe schools czar" who is an admirer of a promoter of pedophilia:

http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/archiv ... t/09100903

Again, you can't make this stuff up. I don't recall Bush appointing anybody who admired an advocate of molesting little girls, do you?

[Bust Nak]

Nonsense. Homosexuals are far more likely to molest children.

Do you see a difference between a hetrosexual man molesting a boy and a homosexual man molesting a boy?

The stats your provided doesn't make this distinction and hence can't be used to support your claim.

[100%atheist]

By the way, almost all the Catholic scandals were a homosexual issue, as most of the perpetrators and victims were male.

For all of human history marriage has been seen as between men and women, yet to you that is 'peculiar'. You can't make this stuff up.

Incorrect. Most of those were PEDOPHILE incidences. The male victims got the publicity (plus , because of the altar boys, and the structure of the boarding schools, the priests had more access to young boys), but there were a substancial number of female victims.

It was homosexual pedophilia, the vast majority of those involved were male. There is an embarrassing link between the two issues.

You do keep on promoting misinformation. The vast number of pedophiles are heterosexual in their adult relations (the same percentage that are heterosexual in the non-pedophole population.).

Nonsense. Homosexuals are far more likely to molest children.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2258616/posts

"Among the reasons Dailey cited for being concerned about the potential for homosexual molestation of boys:

-- Almost all sex crimes against children are committed by men and significant numbers of victims are males. In 1996, the journal Adolescence reported several studies indicate that up to one-third of all sex crimes against children are committed against boys.

-- Even homosexual activists don't try to hide the connection with pedophilia. In The Gay Report -- a book published back in 1979 -- authors Karla Jay and Allen Young found that 73 percent of those surveyed had had sexual relations with males 16 to 19 or younger.

-- A 1999 article in the Journal of Homosexuality by Helmut Graupner argued that same-sex relations with minors should be considered a gay rights issue. The article argued that children wouldn't necessarily be harmed by sexual contact with adults."

"It showed that 8 million girls were abused by age 18 by heterosexual men, a ratio of 1 victim to 11 adult men. However, 6-8 million boys were abused by age 18 by 1-2 million adult homosexuals, a ratio of 3-5 victims for every gay adult."

Here is Obama's former "safe schools czar" who is an admirer of a promoter of pedophilia:

http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/archiv ... t/09100903

Again, you can't make this stuff up. I don't recall Bush appointing anybody who admired an advocate of molesting little girls, do you?

So, you completely ignored my post with a link to an article (by a qualified person) on child molestation and went ahead on insisting on your nonsense based on F-News-like propaganda.

Okay. Let me say it: child molesters often have no fully developed sexual orientation. However the majority of child molesters have a fixed heterosexual orientation. You would learn it if you have read the article.

[kayky]

Homosexuality and pedophilia are two totally different sexual orientations. One has nothing to do with the other!

[East of Eden]

By the way, almost all the Catholic scandals were a homosexual issue, as most of the perpetrators and victims were male.

For all of human history marriage has been seen as between men and women, yet to you that is 'peculiar'. You can't make this stuff up.

Incorrect. Most of those were PEDOPHILE incidences. The male victims got the publicity (plus , because of the altar boys, and the structure of the boarding schools, the priests had more access to young boys), but there were a substancial number of female victims.

It was homosexual pedophilia, the vast majority of those involved were male. There is an embarrassing link between the two issues.

You do keep on promoting misinformation. The vast number of pedophiles are heterosexual in their adult relations (the same percentage that are heterosexual in the non-pedophole population.).

Nonsense. Homosexuals are far more likely to molest children.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2258616/posts

"Among the reasons Dailey cited for being concerned about the potential for homosexual molestation of boys:

-- Almost all sex crimes against children are committed by men and significant numbers of victims are males. In 1996, the journal Adolescence reported several studies indicate that up to one-third of all sex crimes against children are committed against boys.

-- Even homosexual activists don't try to hide the connection with pedophilia. In The Gay Report -- a book published back in 1979 -- authors Karla Jay and Allen Young found that 73 percent of those surveyed had had sexual relations with males 16 to 19 or younger.

-- A 1999 article in the Journal of Homosexuality by Helmut Graupner argued that same-sex relations with minors should be considered a gay rights issue. The article argued that children wouldn't necessarily be harmed by sexual contact with adults."

"It showed that 8 million girls were abused by age 18 by heterosexual men, a ratio of 1 victim to 11 adult men. However, 6-8 million boys were abused by age 18 by 1-2 million adult homosexuals, a ratio of 3-5 victims for every gay adult."

Here is Obama's former "safe schools czar" who is an admirer of a promoter of pedophilia:

http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/archiv ... t/09100903

Again, you can't make this stuff up. I don't recall Bush appointing anybody who admired an advocate of molesting little girls, do you?

So, you completely ignored my post with a link to an article (by a qualified person) on child molestation and went ahead on insisting on your nonsense based on F-News-like propaganda.

Okay. Let me say it: child molesters often have no fully developed sexual orientation. However the majority of child molesters have a fixed heterosexual orientation. You would learn it if you have read the article.

I reject the article, you are wrong. What facts in the 'Fox news propaganda' do you disagree with, or are you just going to do ad hominems?

FOX, the most trusted name in news. I much prefer them to the MSM presstitutes in the tank for our failed POTUS.

[East of Eden]

Homosexuality and pedophilia are two totally different sexual orientations. One has nothing to do with the other!

They are combined far more often than heterosexuals and pedophilia. See post 301.

[micatala]

By the way, almost all the Catholic scandals were a homosexual issue, as most of the perpetrators and victims were male.

For all of human history marriage has been seen as between men and women, yet to you that is 'peculiar'. You can't make this stuff up.

Incorrect. Most of those were PEDOPHILE incidences. The male victims got the publicity (plus , because of the altar boys, and the structure of the boarding schools, the priests had more access to young boys), but there were a substancial number of female victims.

It was homosexual pedophilia, the vast majority of those involved were male. There is an embarrassing link between the two issues.

You do keep on promoting misinformation. The vast number of pedophiles are heterosexual in their adult relations (the same percentage that are heterosexual in the non-pedophole population.).

Nonsense. Homosexuals are far more likely to molest children.

East of Eden again, all on his own, makes an accusation associating gays with pedophiles.


One has to ask why. How is this making a secular argument, or any kind of argument against gay marriage? Even if his accusation is true, which based on the evidence provided here seems very doubtful, why is it relevant?



Would East of Eden propose banning marriage to people who are part of any and all groups who have a higher rate of pedophilia or sexual abuse of children, or only gays?








Yes or no?

[100%atheist]

By the way, almost all the Catholic scandals were a homosexual issue, as most of the perpetrators and victims were male.

For all of human history marriage has been seen as between men and women, yet to you that is 'peculiar'. You can't make this stuff up.

Incorrect. Most of those were PEDOPHILE incidences. The male victims got the publicity (plus , because of the altar boys, and the structure of the boarding schools, the priests had more access to young boys), but there were a substancial number of female victims.

It was homosexual pedophilia, the vast majority of those involved were male. There is an embarrassing link between the two issues.

You do keep on promoting misinformation. The vast number of pedophiles are heterosexual in their adult relations (the same percentage that are heterosexual in the non-pedophole population.).

Nonsense. Homosexuals are far more likely to molest children.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2258616/posts

"Among the reasons Dailey cited for being concerned about the potential for homosexual molestation of boys:

-- Almost all sex crimes against children are committed by men and significant numbers of victims are males. In 1996, the journal Adolescence reported several studies indicate that up to one-third of all sex crimes against children are committed against boys.

-- Even homosexual activists don't try to hide the connection with pedophilia. In The Gay Report -- a book published back in 1979 -- authors Karla Jay and Allen Young found that 73 percent of those surveyed had had sexual relations with males 16 to 19 or younger.

-- A 1999 article in the Journal of Homosexuality by Helmut Graupner argued that same-sex relations with minors should be considered a gay rights issue. The article argued that children wouldn't necessarily be harmed by sexual contact with adults."

"It showed that 8 million girls were abused by age 18 by heterosexual men, a ratio of 1 victim to 11 adult men. However, 6-8 million boys were abused by age 18 by 1-2 million adult homosexuals, a ratio of 3-5 victims for every gay adult."

Here is Obama's former "safe schools czar" who is an admirer of a promoter of pedophilia:

http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/archiv ... t/09100903

Again, you can't make this stuff up. I don't recall Bush appointing anybody who admired an advocate of molesting little girls, do you?

So, you completely ignored my post with a link to an article (by a qualified person) on child molestation and went ahead on insisting on your nonsense based on F-News-like propaganda.

Okay. Let me say it: child molesters often have no fully developed sexual orientation. However the majority of child molesters have a fixed heterosexual orientation. You would learn it if you have read the article.

I reject the article, you are wrong.

By 'rejecting the article', do you mean that you reject to read it? Is this correct?

What facts in the 'Fox news propaganda' do you disagree with, or are you just going to do ad hominems?

FOX, the most trusted name in news. I much prefer them to the MSM presstitutes in the tank for our failed POTUS.

FOX News, CNN, MSNBC, etc. are getting money for attracting people to their commercials by reporting some news. The accuracy of the news and information, though often important, is secondary to the goals of news media companies.

If I am going to trust a report from a news agency including F-News, it's better be a news post with references to solid studies by specialists who are not specialized on sensations, religious (or anti-religious) propaganda, etc.

[Autodidact]

There is a group that I think we can all agree has a much higher rate of pedophilia. That group is men. East: Should we discriminate against men, in your view? Should we deny them equal rights? Should they be prohibited from marrying? From being in positions with access to children, such as teachers, scout leaders and priests?

[East of Eden]

By the way, almost all the Catholic scandals were a homosexual issue, as most of the perpetrators and victims were male.

For all of human history marriage has been seen as between men and women, yet to you that is 'peculiar'. You can't make this stuff up.

Incorrect. Most of those were PEDOPHILE incidences. The male victims got the publicity (plus , because of the altar boys, and the structure of the boarding schools, the priests had more access to young boys), but there were a substancial number of female victims.

It was homosexual pedophilia, the vast majority of those involved were male. There is an embarrassing link between the two issues.

You do keep on promoting misinformation. The vast number of pedophiles are heterosexual in their adult relations (the same percentage that are heterosexual in the non-pedophole population.).

Nonsense. Homosexuals are far more likely to molest children.

East of Eden again, all on his own, makes an accusation associating gays with pedophiles.


One has to ask why. How is this making a secular argument, or any kind of argument against gay marriage? Even if his accusation is true, which based on the evidence provided here seems very doubtful,

Why, just because you don't want it to be true? What facts do you disagree with? I see no reason to continue this conversation until there is agreement that gay males are involved in pedophilia more than gay heterosexuals.

You're making stuff up. I never claimed the higher incidence of pedophilia in the homosexual community was a reason for them to not marry, it was in response to another claim.

Would East of Eden propose banning marriage to people who are part of any and all groups who have a higher rate of pedophilia or sexual abuse of children, or only gays?








Yes or no?

You're asking a question about a point I didn't make. The point is relevant to the issue of gays in the Boy Scouts, for one.