Homosexuality as a sin against both worldviews

[cholland]

Am I missing something, or is homosexuality not only an affront against most of the major religions, but also against natural selection? How does an evolutionist justify the insertion of a homosexual gene in the natural selection process, considering it is its enemy?

From my point of view, homosexuality is a sin not only according to the Christian Bible, but also against the evolutionary worldview. You EITHER hold one of the two and are inconsistent:
1. I'm a Christian, but decided to cherry pick the Bible and/or disobey it.
2. I'm an evolutionist, but decided somehow homosexuality is not an attack on the natural selection process.

OR you hold one of the two and are consistent:
1. I'm a Christian and homosexuality is an offense against God.
2. I'm an evolutionist and homosexuality is an offense against the natural selection process.

The only worldview I see that can justify homosexuality is nihilism. But of course, they can justify rape, murder, etc. as well.

[Shermana]

Do you have compassion and respect for incestors? Why or why not?

What does incest -- a (typically) coercive, exploitative sexual act between relatives -- have to do with homosexuality?

Do you have compassion and respect for people who have relations with 12 year olds in countries where its legal? Why or why not?

What does pedophilia -- the rape and / or sexual exploitation of a child by an adult -- have to do with homosexuality?

Let the reader note, Haven has to deliberately assume Incest is almost always coervice and exploitative as if it never or rarely happens in consent.

I made it quite clear, even Joey agreed, in the other thread, that incestualism is another "natural" "predisposition" and could be rightfully called an "orientation".

Please kindly explain why a man who has consentual relations with a 12 year old in Mexico is necessarily "raping". I am a student of psychology. Please explain why the 12 year old is not smart enough to make their own choice in Mexico, says the MExican government that she is.

Now not to be too critical, this is not the first time Haven has not read something that makes a key difference: I said "Where it is legal". So therefore, the idea that they are "raping" a minor who gives consent is a bogus defense in Mexico. Why? Is the Mexican government full of pedos?

[kayky]

Eating the excess young is also the norm in many species for controlling numbers.

Incest is also the norm among many species.

Now are you going to defend those acts as something that is justifiable by nature? Why not?

Because one act is between consenting adults. The others are not.

[Shermana]

Because one act is between consenting adults. The others are not

Please explain why the 12 year old giving consent in Mexico is not really giving consent, please explain why incest does not ever or usually involve Consent, with sources, or honorably retract. Thanks.

[kayky]

Please explain why the 12 year old giving consent in MExico is not really giving consent, please explain why incest does not ever or usually involve Consent, with sources, or honorably retract. Thanks.

I am personally a victim of incest, so I think I am in a position to answer this question. I was only 13 when I was first raped by my father. In my life he was a god. So are most adults in the lives of young children. These children do not have the maturity to even understand what is happening to them or to resist the power these adults hold over them.

[Shermana]

Please explain why the 12 year old giving consent in MExico is not really giving consent, please explain why incest does not ever or usually involve Consent, with sources, or honorably retract. Thanks.

I am personally a victim of incest, so I think I am in a position to answer this question. I was only 13 when I was first raped by my father. In my life he was a god. So are most adults in the lives of young children. These children do not have the maturity to even understand what is happening to them or to resist the power these adults hold over them.

In Mexico and Spain, they don't buy this "They don't have the maturity" stuff at 13, why is that? Are they pedos who run the government?

Now since you are bringing up your own personal situation and trying to use it as a case to represent the whole, I'm gonna have to ask you for more details on this case: Did you have the chance to reject his advances? You say he was "a god", what does that mean? Does that mean you accepted it without question?

This whole "They don't have the maturity to understand" is IMO a lawyer's best friend but in no way helpful to changing the mindsets which cause this horrid problem. I think society conditions victims to throw away their own sense of responsibility in what is a very culture-centric view of the "understanding" of a minor. In Spain, this "they don't understand" is hogwash at age 13. If you want to get into an argument on this topic, I am a Psyche student and kid's psyche is a particular specialty of mine, so get ready for cans of worms.

With that said, Incest is quite often a consentual practice between grown adults. And you apparently totally avoided my question about the Age of consent laws. I can see why.

[Tex]

In Mexico and Spain, they don't buy this "They don't have the maturity" stuff at 13, why is that? Are they pedos who run the government?

Tex: They may not be pedos....But they sure are stupid.
13 years old.... and an adult should be listening to them as an adult.

Are 13 year olds allowed to vote too?

[cholland]

There are several misconceptions, beginning with the idea that there is something called an "evolutionist," which is a worldview somehow as contrasted with Christianity. In fact evolution is a scientific theory, like germ theory or atomic theory. You either accept scientific theories or not. Some people who reject it do so purely based on their version of Christianity, but that does not change the fact that it is a scientific theory, and therefore there is no such thing as something being a sin against it.

Maybe you're asking how homosexuality could possibly be genetic since it is somewhat counter-reproductive? That's a very different question, but if you're interested, it is one we could talk about.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with homosexuality from a Humanist standpoint -- in fact, opposing gay rights is far more of a "sin." Evolution is a scientific theory that is descriptive, not prescriptive. There is no such thing as a "sin" against evolution, any more than there could be a "sin" against gravity or electromagnetism.

How does the homosexual gene survive in natural selection?

wiki:
Natural selection is the gradual, non-random, process by which biological traits become either more or less common in a population as a function of differential reproduction of their bearers.

[Goat]

There are several misconceptions, beginning with the idea that there is something called an "evolutionist," which is a worldview somehow as contrasted with Christianity. In fact evolution is a scientific theory, like germ theory or atomic theory. You either accept scientific theories or not. Some people who reject it do so purely based on their version of Christianity, but that does not change the fact that it is a scientific theory, and therefore there is no such thing as something being a sin against it.

Maybe you're asking how homosexuality could possibly be genetic since it is somewhat counter-reproductive? That's a very different question, but if you're interested, it is one we could talk about.

They find that women who have homosexual male offspring tend to be much more fertile than average. Also, in very many cases, the homosexual will be much more willing to help out nurturing and protecting syblings, providing an advantage to their siblings.

[Shermana]

In Mexico and Spain, they don't buy this "They don't have the maturity" stuff at 13, why is that? Are they pedos who run the government?

Tex: They may not be pedos....But they sure are stupid.
13 years old.... and an adult should be listening to them as an adult.

Are 13 year olds allowed to vote too?

How about them states in the US where the age is 14? Clearly, it's an issue that they either are a bunch of pedos making the rules, or have decided that its "stupid" to give anyone over a certain age this sort of "victim card" that absolves them of all responsibility.

You also can't really tie in other things like "Voting" or as another person said, "driving a car". You can die for your country at 18 but you can't have a drop of whiskey to take the pain of a bullet away. Apparently you don't have full rights until 21, so why not make the Age of consent 21 like it is in some countries? Why is a person not mature enough to drink at 18 but sure mature enough to do the do?

I also find it very interesting that the age of consent for homo-relations between males is often different than the age of consent for hetero relations. In Greece, 15 for a girl is okay, but 18 is the age for homo relations between men. Is this discrimination by the Greek government of all people?

[99percentatheism]

Am I missing something, or is homosexuality not only an affront against most of the major religions, but also against natural selection? How does an evolutionist justify the insertion of a homosexual gene in the natural selection process, considering it is its enemy?

From my point of view, homosexuality is a sin not only according to the Christian Bible, but also against the evolutionary worldview. You EITHER hold one of the two and are inconsistent:
1. I'm a Christian, but decided to cherry pick the Bible and/or disobey it.
2. I'm an evolutionist, but decided somehow homosexuality is not an attack on the natural selection process.

OR you hold one of the two and are consistent:
1. I'm a Christian and homosexuality is an offense against God.
2. I'm an evolutionist and homosexuality is an offense against the natural selection process.

The only worldview I see that can justify homosexuality is nihilism. But of course, they can justify rape, murder, etc. as well.

No, not at all. That doesn't make sense at all.. at least number 2.

And not coming from the concept of nihilism either.

Actually, homosexuality is a zero sum game in regards to evolution. It is actually enjoyable to watch the garden-variety materialist squirm with discomfort when the realization of evolution destroys their poilitcal agenda.

From a viewpoint of 'compassion and respect for individuals and diversity' say that what two loving adults do in the privacy of their own bedroom is none of my business.

"Love"? If anything is anti-evolution, it is the human will to love. Lve makes human beings choose sexual partnmers that are worthless. There is no such thing as "love" in evolution. Nothing in nature supports human love, or shows it as anything worthwhile.

You are assuming that sexual behavior is only used for reproduction.. and that is not true.

Try spreading your genes through the digestive tract. Evolution asserts the worthlessness of same gender sexual couplings. Take for example Darwins Finches (of course all still being birds). There are no descendants of gay Finches. Darwin's Finches are by all reality only straight.