God is real... in the mind only.

[playhavock]

In here, I will forward my theory that God is real in the mind only, giving reason that we should conclude this is true.

I will refer to "God" as (G) for this theory, as God could also be taken to be Gods/god/gods.

---------

(G) is a universal. Not a particular.

We can verify this to be so by looking at what (G) is. When we do so objectively we see that no group of people can agree upon what (G) is the definition itself is up for debate, because of this, we can infer that the idea of (G) is simply this - an idea. If it was a actual thing, it would seem to be that all would be able to agree upon what (G) was - the particular (G) that religion claims to be true, can not be shown to be true - whats more, even a singular group religion, in our case we are talking directly to Christens - is not agreed upon - so there is no particular.

Stranger still, there is no agreement on the universal of (G)! Still, for now we will let this problem sit on the sideline, for now.

A universal is a concept - like "triangle" or "cat" or "human" these things do not exist outside of the mind - only the particular of a cat, triangle or human can exist outside of the mind. If one were to bring up a concept foreign to us and our understanding and name it something, the concept would be the universal that points to a particular. In our case with (G) we can not reach the particular at all, and so we should conclude that it is a reference to a universal.

Since universals only exist in the mind, it is then reasonable to think that (G) is only exists in the mind.

[kayky]

AFAIK after we die we rot.

That's why I intend to be cremated. Quick and clean.

The death of which I spoke was figurative. It is the death of the sense of the individual self. Once the illusion of selfhood is transcended, there is no longer a translation of the world to bring meaning and purpose, the world itself is transformed...or rather the view of it when seen with an understanding of the nature of being.

I understand this sense of blurred boundaries from my own experiences. But I don't go around in that state of mind all the time, and I just wonder what that would be like in our everyday functioning in the world. I know what it's like to live with a heightened sense of awareness and love (although for me this is sometimes interrupted with newly discovered obstacles to overcome), but do we not still need some sense of boundaries to function in the world? I also understand and have experienced a transformed view of the world. How do you think we can best use this transformative experience to actually transform the world?

The infinity beyond the death of the self is pure awareness. Awareness is the same in you and I, in my forbears and yours, and in our descendents - and is the only 'reality'.
The only thing that differs is how the awareness manifests in the individual. And that is where the limitations begin.

I'd like to hear more about these limitations. How does that express itself in the life of the individual?

And I know of no need or reason for such a metaphysic.

I understand and respect that about you. I suppose I find it hard to believe that human consciousness, even in its most heightened state, is the highest form of consciousness there is. Once the boundaries are gone, and we realize we are a part of something larger than ourselves, what is that "something larger"?

At all levels of existence, the physical - we are the same atoms and molecules as every other aspect of existence, the biological - we are part of the biosphere, without it we would not be here, the spiritual - all of existence has structure and process (which is how I define spirit).

So are you saying that there is no such thing as spirit beyond the physical?

[bernee51]

AFAIK after we die we rot.

That's why I intend to be cremated. Quick and clean.

Likewise..after anything still useful is taken.

The death of which I spoke was figurative. It is the death of the sense of the individual self. Once the illusion of selfhood is transcended, there is no longer a translation of the world to bring meaning and purpose, the world itself is transformed...or rather the view of it when seen with an understanding of the nature of being.

I understand this sense of blurred boundaries from my own experiences. But I don't go around in that state of mind all the time, and I just wonder what that would be like in our everyday functioning in the world. I know what it's like to live with a heightened sense of awareness and love (although for me this is sometimes interrupted with newly discovered obstacles to overcome), but do we not still need some sense of boundaries to function in the world? I also understand and have experienced a transformed view of the world. How do you think we can best use this transformative experience to actually transform the world?

Boundaries do not become blurred - they cease to exist. But as you state some sense of boundary is required to function in the world and we construct them before we realise we have done so. The difficult trick is realising this and acting from a sense of presence rather than reacting from habitual patterns. Beung ably to see the boundary - in ourself and others - as it arises.

'To change the world, first change yourself' - Gandhi I think.

The differnce can be subtle, like

There but for the grace of god go I, and
There thanks to the grace of god go I.

The infinity beyond the death of the self is pure awareness. Awareness is the same in you and I, in my forbears and yours, and in our descendents - and is the only 'reality'.
The only thing that differs is how the awareness manifests in the individual. And that is where the limitations begin.

I'd like to hear more about these limitations. How does that express itself in the life of the individual?

Look outside your front door. A limitation is contraction around ego (small self) which results in anything from corporate greed to road rage to fear of those that a 'different'.

Sometimes the limitation can be subtle...

There but for the grace of god go I.

or

There thanks to the grace of god go I.

Once could be seen to come from pity (based in fear)

The other from true compassion.

And I know of no need or reason for such a metaphysic.

I understand and respect that about you. I suppose I find it hard to believe that human consciousness, even in its most heightened state, is the highest form of consciousness there is. Once the boundaries are gone, and we realize we are a part of something larger than ourselves, what is that "something larger"?

The universe? AFAIK you don't get any larger than that

At all levels of existence, the physical - we are the same atoms and molecules as every other aspect of existence, the biological - we are part of the biosphere, without it we would not be here, the spiritual - all of existence has structure and process (which is how I define spirit).

So are you saying that there is no such thing as spirit beyond the physical?

All that I know is based on and has evolved from the physical universe that emerged and is emerging.

The universe has structure and process and thus spirit, universal spirit . We are part of the universe and thus contribute to this spirit.

However, as we are the univrese become aware of itself we are in a position, even perhaps have a duty, to use that awareness to further evolve that spirit.

Would love to say more but I have to head out. Later.

[kayky]

Boundaries do not become blurred - they cease to exist.

I figured that would be the case eventually.

But as you state some sense of boundary is required to function in the world and we construct them before we realise we have done so. The difficult trick is realising this and acting from a sense of presence rather than reacting from habitual patterns. Beung ably to see the boundary - in ourself and others - as it arises.

I do try to stay in the moment as I go through my day. It changes everything.

'To change the world, first change yourself' - Gandhi I think.

Yes. I've seen this quote before.

The differnce can be subtle, like

There but for the grace of god go I, and
There thanks to the grace of god go I.

I'm not sure what you mean by this.

Look outside your front door. A limitation is contraction around ego (small self) which results in anything from corporate greed to road rage to fear of those that a 'different'.

Sometimes the limitation can be subtle...

There but for the grace of god go I.

or

There thanks to the grace of god go I.

Once could be seen to come from pity (based in fear)

The other from true compassion.

Okay. I think I get it.

The universe? AFAIK you don't get any larger than that

God? By the way what does AFAIK mean?

All that I know is based on and has evolved from the physical universe that emerged and is emerging.

Emerging from where or what?

The universe has structure and process and thus spirit, universal spirit . We are part of the universe and thus contribute to this spirit.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say structure + process = spirit. How and why is that the case?

However, as we are the univrese become aware of itself we are in a position, even perhaps have a duty, to use that awareness to further evolve that spirit.

I don't understand any of this. Can you explain it to me?

[bernee51]

The universe? AFAIK you don't get any larger than that

God? By the way what does AFAIK mean?

.

All that I know is based on and has evolved from the physical universe that emerged and is emerging.

Emerging from where or what?

Emerging from itself.

Just as the woman Kayky has emerged from the girl Kayky

The universe has structure and process and thus spirit, universal spirit . We are part of the universe and thus contribute to this spirit.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say structure + process = spirit. How and why is that the case?

It is how I define spirit. In part it is what differentiates the living walking being from the atoms and molecules of which it consists. It is also those aspects of the organism which inform it of how to live its life. In turn ,by the way it lives its life, the organism informs spirit.

However, as we are the universe become aware of itself we are in a position, even perhaps have a duty, to use that awareness to further evolve that spirit.

I don't understand any of this. Can you explain it to me?

Teilhard de Chardin defined us not as human beings having a spiritual experience, but spiritual beings having a human experience. He also held that we are evolution become aware of itself. This is true at the level of the individual as well as relationship (close and communal). Thus ‘organisms’ made up of our close and communal relationships also have a spiritual aspect. In other words, because we can and do make decisions of spirit we can, by choosing skilful ways to live, contribute to the evolution of spirit – individual and communal.

[kayky]

Good stuff. Thanks for your responses.

[Flail]

kayky wrote:

I understand this sense of blurred boundaries from my own experiences. But I don't go around in that state of mind all the time, and I just wonder what that would be like in our everyday functioning in the world. I know what it's like to live with a heightened sense of awareness and love (although for me this is sometimes interrupted with newly discovered obstacles to overcome), but do we not still need some sense of boundaries to function in the world? I also understand and have experienced a transformed view of the world. How do you think we can best use this transformative experience to actually transform the world?

Pardon my intrusion, but I think we can most quickly transform the world by helping the religiously indoctrinated to understand that it is the very indoctrination which they spew as 'truth' that informs their transformative experiences. Which is why transformative experiences in Pakistan are typically Muslim, those in India typically Hindu and those in Kansas typically Christian. We have to rid ourselves of fundamentalist, inerrantist, verse based scripturalism thru which odd holy men in Pakistan and Kansas preach 'truth' to their deluded followers.

Neither the Bible, the Koran or Grimm's Fairy Tales contain one iota of verifiable absolute truths about 'God'. But all of them can inform our sensibilities and understandings of the world and its inhabitants if we would only get it thru our indoctrinated heads that myth and desert lore is not truth.

[kayky]

Pardon my intrusion, but I think we can most quickly transform the world by helping the religiously indoctrinated to understand that it is the very indoctrination which they spew as 'truth' that informs their transformative experiences. Which is why transformative experiences in Pakistan are typically Muslim, those in India typically Hindu and those in Kansas typically Christian. We have to rid ourselves of fundamentalist, inerrantist, verse based scripturalism thru which odd holy men in Pakistan and Kansas preach 'truth' to their deluded followers.


Neither the Bible, the Koran or Grimm's Fairy Tales contain one iota of verifiable absolute truths about 'God'. But all of them can inform our sensibilities and understandings of the world and its inhabitants if we would only get it thru our indoctrinated heads that myth and desert lore is not truth.

It is not about interpreting any of these scriptures literally, so it is not surprising that such experiences are culturally informed. There will always be those who do not understand this and will become convinced that their experience proves the literal truth of their particular scripture. But do not underestimate the importance of myth to this process. Even the tales of the brothers Grimm have a lot to teach us about human nature. It is not surprising to see their continued cultural appeal on both television and film.

[Flail]

Flail wrote:

Pardon my intrusion, but I think we can most quickly transform the world by helping the religiously indoctrinated to understand that it is the very indoctrination which they spew as 'truth' that informs their transformative experiences. Which is why transformative experiences in Pakistan are typically Muslim, those in India typically Hindu and those in Kansas typically Christian. We have to rid ourselves of fundamentalist, inerrantist, verse based scripturalism thru which odd holy men in Pakistan and Kansas preach 'truth' to their deluded followers.

Neither the Bible, the Koran or Grimm's Fairy Tales contain one iota of verifiable absolute truths about 'God'. But all of them can inform our sensibilities and understandings of the world and its inhabitants if we would only get it thru our indoctrinated heads that myth and desert lore is not truth.

kayky wrote:

It is not about interpreting any of these scriptures literally, so it is not surprising that such experiences are culturally informed. There will always be those who do not understand this and will become convinced that their experience proves the literal truth of their particular scripture. But do not underestimate the importance of myth to this process. Even the tales of the brothers Grimm have a lot to teach us about human nature. It is not surprising to see their continued cultural appeal on both television and film.

Which is basically what I said. So I agree. I love fiction and myth. I write fiction. I love the Bible, Koran, Aesop, Grimm, Homer et al. But Christianity and Islam too often don't teach the mythos; they teach superstition; and both often do more to close minds than to open them.