Same sex marriage is not a church issue.

[Christianity in crisis?]

I believe same sex marriage is not a church issue when it comes to the law. Christians who try to ban same sex marriage are wrong, and should be consistent with the separation of church and state. BTW... I am an evangelical Christian against forms of legalized discrimination.

[Goat]

Those who say that homosexual marriage threatens the state of so-called biblical marriage clearly do not understand that we already do not have biblical marriages in the U.S.
Common practices such as sexual equality, 50/50 estate division, and women divorcing men were unknown in scripture. Oh, yes- and marriage is universally defined by secular law, not biblical precepts.

We have already redefined heterosexual marriage: why not amend it to include homosexual unions?

Personally, I think if you think a gay man is threatening your marriage, you should stop sleeping with him.

[KCKID]

Those who say that homosexual marriage threatens the state of so-called biblical marriage clearly do not understand that we already do not have biblical marriages in the U.S.
Common practices such as sexual equality, 50/50 estate division, and women divorcing men were unknown in scripture. Oh, yes- and marriage is universally defined by secular law, not biblical precepts.

We have already redefined heterosexual marriage: why not amend it to include homosexual unions?

Personally, I think if you think a gay man is threatening your marriage, you should stop sleeping with him.

[Hubert Humphrey]

Personally, I think if you think a gay man is threatening your marriage, you should stop sleeping with him.

. . . or with that straight person who is not your spouse!

[Goat]

Personally, I think if you think a gay man is threatening your marriage, you should stop sleeping with him.

. . . or with that straight person who is not your spouse!

That too. I find it very telling that many of the people who are so vehemently against gay marriage so much that they campaign against often have multiple divorces.

[Hubert Humphrey]

That too. I find it very telling that many of the people who are so vehemently against gay marriage so much that they campaign against often have multiple divorces.

I don't necessarily agree that that is the case: at my church most of the congregation are pretty conservative about marriage AND divorce. Thankfully, the pastor is pretty forgiving about whatever is in one's past.
But I do marvel that they find the whole idea of gay marriage such a threat. If someone's marriage is so weak as to get rocked by another couple's marriage arrangement, then some counseling would most certainly be in order!

[Logomachist]

I agree with the OP... religious institutions should not recognize any "marriage" as religiously binding that don't meet its qualifications as a "marriage". Civil authorities should not recognize marriages that aren't legally binding, even if they are religiously. We're not in a theocracy, we shouldn't expect government and religious qualifications to match up perfectly. Moreover, I think the religious attack on gay marriage conflates the two and in a way makes religious institutions subordinate to the state. They're saying "We need to stop gay marriage or there will be gays married (which we find objectionable)!"

They would be in a stronger, smarter position (I think) if they ignored civil marriage entirely and concentrated exclusively on what marriage means within their church.

[Untraveled Trail]

I believe same sex marriage is not a church issue when it comes to the law. Christians who try to ban same sex marriage are wrong, and should be consistent with the separation of church and state. BTW... I am an evangelical Christian against forms of legalized discrimination.

I support the right of gays and lesbians to marry.

However, as the concept of Church and State separation exists, I think the civil unions should be legalized and authorized by the State and marriage by the Church. Since we have freedom of religion and speech in our country, I do not believe any religious group should be compelled to violate its principles or practitioner's conscience. There are many denominations that would begin offering marriage to gays and lesbians if the State allowed for legal civil unions and for those who wanted their relationship recognized by State and Church, that option would be available.

While I find discrimination repulsive and against the teachings of Jesus, for the denominations that, because of their theology or beliefs, will not consider allowing marriage of gays and lesbians, they could continue to hold their line.

Not everyone who is against same sex marriage is evil and narrow minded. I've met many people who genuinely care about others, are deeply concerned about these issues, and are wrestling with them but in their desire to remain faithful to what they understand simply cannot bring themselves to accept this yet. As a general rule, I do not find myself upset by this if a person is truly open and seeking to understand. Its like running a marathon. If we stay with it, we'll all arrive at the finish line... each one in his/her own time.

[McCulloch]

However, as the concept of Church and State separation exists, I think the civil unions should be legalized and authorized by the State and marriage by the Church. Since we have freedom of religion and speech in our country, I do not believe any religious group should be compelled to violate its principles or practitioner's conscience. There are many denominations that would begin offering marriage to gays and lesbians if the State allowed for legal civil unions and for those who wanted their relationship recognized by State and Church, that option would be available.

While I find discrimination repulsive and against the teachings of Jesus, for the denominations that, because of their theology or beliefs, will not consider allowing marriage of gays and lesbians, they could continue to hold their line.

My country has same sex marriage. No church or religious group is required to violate its principles in this regard. Churches in favor of gay marriage, perform gay marriages without resorting to calling them civil unions. Churches opposed, do not. Couples who wish for a church wedding (gay or straight) are free to seek out a church to marry them. Couples who wish for a wedding outside of a church are free to do so. It works rather well.

[Choir Loft]

I believe same sex marriage is not a church issue when it comes to the law. Christians who try to ban same sex marriage are wrong, and should be consistent with the separation of church and state. BTW... I am an evangelical Christian against forms of legalized discrimination.

Your second point first; separation of church & state.
When it was drafted and ratified constitutional intent regarding the separation of church and state was to prevent governmental meddling in anything religious. Neither law nor ordinance or interference of any kind was to be tolerated.

In the twenty first century, the constitution is no longer a restriction OF government so much as it being used for restriction BY government.

Same sex marriage as well as any other homosexual activity is a natural and spiritual aberration. As such it is the duty of those with a living faith to oppose it in any way they can.

Your first point states that same sex marriage isn't a church legal matter.
In fact it has become exactly that, with Christian tradition, intent and wishes totally disregarded by legal authorities. Pressure has been brought to bear for the Christian community to accept deviant homosexual behavior whether they like it or not. It has been thrust down our throat; we are being forced to drink poison.

- We are told it is hateful to oppose that which Our Lord has forbidden.
- We are told to accept into our congregations and into our leadership that which we are told in the Bible to reject, to oppose and to remove from fellowship.
- We are told to ignore basic tenants of the faith and to close our mouths and open our minds to wickedness and debauchery and sin.

At no point has the law been sympathetic to Christian values and beliefs. We are oppressed at every opportunity. Live and let live is the motto of the day, but the words are used as a weapon to approve of perpetual sexual indulgence.

Last point last in your statement that you oppose legalized discrimination.
Is legal discrimination against the church also acceptable to you? It exists and it is aggressive and militant. Your statements indicate friendship with the world rather than friendship with God. The Bible says that friendship with the world is enmity against God. At least that's the way HE sees it. Read the book again for the first time if you disagree with me.

Finally it would be a good idea to consider another group that is making its influence felt in the American legal system. These people are not as tolerant of sexual deviation as Christians. They are not tolerant of those who disbelieve in God. In fact they are intolerant of everything and anything that opposes their faith. They regard it as persecution and death, they say, is the answer to persecution.

I write of Islam and Sharia law. It's coming to America and it is not gentle and kind. Those who enjoy homosexual acts will be punished most severely and will soon find that the law is against them.

When Christian influence (and law) withers as so many wish and hope it will, it will be replaced by oppressive murderous Islam. And Islam, contrary to the current state of political correctness is not merciful. Read Muslim words on the matter. If you get upset don't blame me. I'm just the messenger.

Look upon these words O men of vile affection. This is what is coming to you...

And as for those who are guilty of an indecency from among your women, call to witnesses against them four (witnesses) from among you; then if they bear witness confine them to the houses until death takes them away or Allah opens some way for them. (Qur'an 4.15)

And as for the two who are guilty of indecency from among you, give them both a punishment; then if they repent and amend, turn aside from them; surely Allah is Oft-returning (to mercy), the Merciful. (Qur'an 4.16)

"Whoever you find committing the sin of the people of Lut, kill them, both the one who does it and the one to whom it is done."
Fatwa on Homosexuality from IslamOnline.net

other punishments;
buried alive, burned alive, imprisonment, stoning, whipping

"will be resurrected as pigs and monkeys"
Abd Allah bin Umar

"one of the most abominable sins in Islam".
Ahmad Kutty, senior lecturer and Islamic scholar at the Islamic Institute of Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Today American culture is drenched in sin and debauchery.

IF GOD DOES NOT JUDGE AMERICA HE WILL HAVE TO APOLOGIZE TO SODOM AND GOMORRAH.

it's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

[KCKID]

I believe same sex marriage is not a church issue when it comes to the law. Christians who try to ban same sex marriage are wrong, and should be consistent with the separation of church and state. BTW... I am an evangelical Christian against forms of legalized discrimination.

Your second point first; separation of church & state.
When it was drafted and ratified constitutional intent regarding the separation of church and state was to prevent governmental meddling in anything religious. Neither law nor ordinance or interference of any kind was to be tolerated.

In the twenty first century, the constitution is no longer a restriction OF government so much as it being used for restriction BY government.

Same sex marriage as well as any other homosexual activity is a natural and spiritual aberration. As such it is the duty of those with a living faith to oppose it in any way they can.

Your first point states that same sex marriage isn't a church legal matter.
In fact it has become exactly that, with Christian tradition, intent and wishes totally disregarded by legal authorities. Pressure has been brought to bear for the Christian community to accept deviant homosexual behavior whether they like it or not. It has been thrust down our throat; we are being forced to drink poison.

- We are told it is hateful to oppose that which Our Lord has forbidden.
- We are told to accept into our congregations and into our leadership that which we are told in the Bible to reject, to oppose and to remove from fellowship.
- We are told to ignore basic tenants of the faith and to close our mouths and open our minds to wickedness and debauchery and sin.

At no point has the law been sympathetic to Christian values and beliefs. We are oppressed at every opportunity. Live and let live is the motto of the day, but the words are used as a weapon to approve of perpetual sexual indulgence.

Last point last in your statement that you oppose legalized discrimination.
Is legal discrimination against the church also acceptable to you? It exists and it is aggressive and militant. Your statements indicate friendship with the world rather than friendship with God. The Bible says that friendship with the world is enmity against God. At least that's the way HE sees it. Read the book again for the first time if you disagree with me.

Finally it would be a good idea to consider another group that is making its influence felt in the American legal system. These people are not as tolerant of sexual deviation as Christians. They are not tolerant of those who disbelieve in God. In fact they are intolerant of everything and anything that opposes their faith. They regard it as persecution and death, they say, is the answer to persecution.

I write of Islam and Sharia law. It's coming to America and it is not gentle and kind. Those who enjoy homosexual acts will be punished most severely and will soon find that the law is against them.

When Christian influence (and law) withers as so many wish and hope it will, it will be replaced by oppressive murderous Islam. And Islam, contrary to the current state of political correctness is not merciful. Read Muslim words on the matter. If you get upset don't blame me. I'm just the messenger.

Look upon these words O men of vile affection. This is what is coming to you...

And as for those who are guilty of an indecency from among your women, call to witnesses against them four (witnesses) from among you; then if they bear witness confine them to the houses until death takes them away or Allah opens some way for them. (Qur'an 4.15)

And as for the two who are guilty of indecency from among you, give them both a punishment; then if they repent and amend, turn aside from them; surely Allah is Oft-returning (to mercy), the Merciful. (Qur'an 4.16)

"Whoever you find committing the sin of the people of Lut, kill them, both the one who does it and the one to whom it is done."
Fatwa on Homosexuality from IslamOnline.net

other punishments;
buried alive, burned alive, imprisonment, stoning, whipping

"will be resurrected as pigs and monkeys"
Abd Allah bin Umar

"one of the most abominable sins in Islam".
Ahmad Kutty, senior lecturer and Islamic scholar at the Islamic Institute of Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Today American culture is drenched in sin and debauchery.

IF GOD DOES NOT JUDGE AMERICA HE WILL HAVE TO APOLOGIZE TO SODOM AND GOMORRAH.

it's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

My, what an over-the-top tirade that was ...feel better now? Are we talking about some Lex Luthor type plotting to destroy the world or are we talking about two people of the same gender who merely wish to commit themselves to one another as a married couple? When some Christians get off on their rant session it's hard to tell. ANY religion that would even THINK to administer the heinous form of punishments such as those you present (and support?) should be shunned at all costs.

This is insanity!