Allah made it look like Jesus died, but he let someone die in Jesus' place to save Jesus according to the Quran. Isn't that a form of substitutionary death? This is something some Muslims tell me God doesn't do; so, I am confused about this.
The Quran states that the unbelievers plot and scheme with deception but Allah is the "best of deceivers" Some English translations state "the best of planners," in context, however, Allah does best what the unbelievers were doing which was deceiving; so, is Allah to blame for starting Christianity or did he know his deception would cause the birth of a religion that Islam could not comprehend or overcome? For instance, Christianity, IMO, has always been bigger, better and stronger than Islam and always will be!
Did Allah start Christianty?
Moderator: Moderators
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Burninglight
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Burninglight
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Post #231
Can I prove it speaks of the judgment day and can i prove that Paul saying their blood is on their own head means you are responsible for the choices you make? I cannot prove it to you. I can only prove it to someone that has inferencing abilities and understanding. It seems you fall short there HaliHaLi8993 wrote: @ Burninglight
QUOTE: "I don't know what else to tell you. The only Law God has given us Christians is to Love God with all our heart soul and mind and our neighbor as ourself. Those that live that way fulfill all the law and the prophets. Jesus came to show us a better way, because no one was able to follow or keep the letter of the law. It leads to sin and death. For all have sinned and fall short of God's glory, His laws, and ways!
Jesus was speaking of what will happen to those that reject God's provision through Christ on the judgment day. He is not teaching us to do those things. We are to love all people. He said to unbelievers on that day. He will do this:Â
"But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me." (NIV)Â
Jesus is speaking of what will happen to Muslims, Jews and Hindus and atheists and heretics who totally reject the idea of Jesus being Lord of their lives. This is what you are looking at on the last day.Â
ANSWER: Can you prove to me it was referring to the judgement day, cause from what I understand the entire chapter has no mention of the judgement day unless I am mistaken.
QUOTE: "Now, Paul saying your blood be on your own head doesn't mean go out and kill them. It means you are responsible for your decision, IOW, you chose not to have Christ reign over your life at your own peril"
ANSWER: Can you prove it doesn't mean this, that's not what the evidence is suggesting.
QUOTE: "Jesus came as the lamb of God full of grace, mercy and truth, but when He returns He comes as the Lion of the tribe of Judah and He brings judgment for He holds the keys to hell and death!!! Your blood is on your own head to reject God's gift through Christ our Savior. Now is the time for mercy. Seek the Lord while He may be found of you; otherwise, there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth!Â
We must never mistaken Jesus' meekness for weakness!"
ANSWER: How can Jesus (peace be upon him) be the lamb of God when according to Christianity Jesus (peace and blessings be upon him) is God? Likewise if you truly believe in Jesus (peace be upon him) you would be a Muslim submitting yourself to the one true religion that God chose for all of mankind Islam.
QUOTE: "Jesus is speaking figuratively about bringing division not that we should take up swords to shed blood. When a Muslim converts to Christianity Muslims draw swords and kill their own in the middle east so it is figuratively but also a real thing that happens with religious divisons"
ANSWER: figuratively so what is the real meaning of the verse?? Was Jesus (peace be upon him) speaking figuratively in this verse also:
Luke 22:36:
He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.
Post #232
@ Burninglight
QUOTE: "Can I prove it speaks of the judgment day and can i prove that Paul saying their blood is on their own head means you are responsible for the choices you make? I cannot prove it to you. I can only prove it to someone that has inferencing abilities and understanding. It seems you fall short there Hali"
ANSWER: Any one that has reasoning would see the difference between truth and falsehood, that's all I needed to know, thanks
QUOTE: "Can I prove it speaks of the judgment day and can i prove that Paul saying their blood is on their own head means you are responsible for the choices you make? I cannot prove it to you. I can only prove it to someone that has inferencing abilities and understanding. It seems you fall short there Hali"
ANSWER: Any one that has reasoning would see the difference between truth and falsehood, that's all I needed to know, thanks
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Burninglight
- Guru
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Post #233
But you don't that is why I said I cannot prove it to you, You deny proof when it exposes Islam! Most people on this forum can see it except for you.HaLi8993 wrote: @ Burninglight
QUOTE: "Can I prove it speaks of the judgment day and can i prove that Paul saying their blood is on their own head means you are responsible for the choices you make? I cannot prove it to you. I can only prove it to someone that has inferencing abilities and understanding. It seems you fall short there Hali"
ANSWER: Any one that has reasoning would see the difference between truth and falsehood, that's all I needed to know, thanks
Post #234
@ Burninglight
QUOTE: But you don't that is why I said I cannot prove it to you, You deny proof when it exposes Islam! Most people on this forum can see it except for you.
ANSWER: You cannot prove it to me regarless cause it does not exist, the only person I see denying proof is you and others when shown it, the only thing that has been exposed are the misconceptions about Islam and the lengths people will go to in order to discredit Islam. Islam has already warned us agiainst such behavior and attitutes. Most of the people on the forum are living a life of fairytales thinking they can cruze through life having no responsibilities, exerting no efforts in practicing God's religion and using Jesus (peace be upon him) as a escape goat, saying he died for you sins, so let's commit every sin in the world. Basically eat, sleep and play, do what ever you want when ever you want. They will enjoy this life but would have lost the life of the hereafter.
QUOTE: But you don't that is why I said I cannot prove it to you, You deny proof when it exposes Islam! Most people on this forum can see it except for you.
ANSWER: You cannot prove it to me regarless cause it does not exist, the only person I see denying proof is you and others when shown it, the only thing that has been exposed are the misconceptions about Islam and the lengths people will go to in order to discredit Islam. Islam has already warned us agiainst such behavior and attitutes. Most of the people on the forum are living a life of fairytales thinking they can cruze through life having no responsibilities, exerting no efforts in practicing God's religion and using Jesus (peace be upon him) as a escape goat, saying he died for you sins, so let's commit every sin in the world. Basically eat, sleep and play, do what ever you want when ever you want. They will enjoy this life but would have lost the life of the hereafter.
Post #235
Speaking of Fairytales, it was Muhammad who told his rich wife - employer that he was visited by a djinn in the Hira cave, and she convinced him he was chosen to be god's messenger.HaLi8993 wrote:Most of the people on the forum are living a life of fairytales
Islam is rooted in the primitive tribal mentality of "We against Them," "We the righteous against the heathens," "We the servants submissive of the Great Allah against the rebellious enemies of Allah." Islam is a polarizer. Islam is an enemy-maker. To Islam, a non-Muslim is a combatant against Allah and he is fair game to be subjugated and killed.
You got that damn right!thinking they can cruze through life having no responsibilities, exerting no efforts in practicing God's religion and using Jesus (peace be upon him) as a escape goat, saying he died for you sins, so let's commit every sin in the world. Basically eat, sleep and play, do what ever you want when ever you want. They will enjoy this life but would have lost the life of the hereafter.
Post #236
@ Ankhhape
QUOTE: "Speaking of Fairytales, it was Muhammad who told his rich wife - employer that he was visited by a djinn in the Hira cave, and she convinced him he was chosen to be god's messenger.Â
Islam is rooted in the primitive tribal mentality of "We against Them," "We the righteous against the heathens," "We the servants submissive of the Great Allah against the rebellious enemies of Allah." Islam is a polarizer. Islam is an enemy-maker. To Islam, a non-Muslim is a combatant against Allah and he is fair game to be subjugated and killed"
ANSWER: Where does it say he was visited by Jinn?? He was visited by the Angel Gabriel.
It is very clear from the forum who the real enemies of Islam are, it is also very clear who creates this mentality "we against them" you don't realize that your actions and posts reflect and suggest that you believe in everything you have just mentioned do you? Just by looking at this page we can safely say that no Muslim has dedicated an entire page on Christianity or other religions for that matter, criticizing them and posting false claims, so tell me why is that?
QUOTE: "You got that damn right!"
ANSWER: At least you have not denied this, lol
QUOTE: "Speaking of Fairytales, it was Muhammad who told his rich wife - employer that he was visited by a djinn in the Hira cave, and she convinced him he was chosen to be god's messenger.Â
Islam is rooted in the primitive tribal mentality of "We against Them," "We the righteous against the heathens," "We the servants submissive of the Great Allah against the rebellious enemies of Allah." Islam is a polarizer. Islam is an enemy-maker. To Islam, a non-Muslim is a combatant against Allah and he is fair game to be subjugated and killed"
ANSWER: Where does it say he was visited by Jinn?? He was visited by the Angel Gabriel.
It is very clear from the forum who the real enemies of Islam are, it is also very clear who creates this mentality "we against them" you don't realize that your actions and posts reflect and suggest that you believe in everything you have just mentioned do you? Just by looking at this page we can safely say that no Muslim has dedicated an entire page on Christianity or other religions for that matter, criticizing them and posting false claims, so tell me why is that?
QUOTE: "You got that damn right!"
ANSWER: At least you have not denied this, lol
Post #237
In 610 while in the cave he was visited by a "creature" who ordered him to read, but unfortunately this prophet was illiterate. The creature grabbed him and forced him to read. Angels (Jibril) in Islamic belief can do no wrong and would never force someone to do something by violently grabbing them . . . sounds like a djinn, and many other Islamic scholars think so too.
But this is neither here nor there since djinn don't exist either
But this is neither here nor there since djinn don't exist either
Post #238
@ Ankhhape
QUOTE: "In 610 while in the cave he was visited by a "creature" who ordered him to read, but unfortunately this prophet was illiterate. The creature grabbed him and forced him to read. Angels (Jibril) in Islamic belief can do no wrong and would never force someone to do something by violently grabbing them . . . sounds like a djinn, and many other Islamic scholars think so too.
But this is neither here nor there since djinn don't exist either"
ANSWER: Angel Gabriel along with all the Angels have no option but to obey the command of God which is what Angel Gabriel did, and who said this Angel was doing something wrong? Angels do not commit sin yes but there are Angels that will carry out punishments in Hellfire that God will command that is far greater than grabbing someone and squeezing them.
QUOTE: "In 610 while in the cave he was visited by a "creature" who ordered him to read, but unfortunately this prophet was illiterate. The creature grabbed him and forced him to read. Angels (Jibril) in Islamic belief can do no wrong and would never force someone to do something by violently grabbing them . . . sounds like a djinn, and many other Islamic scholars think so too.
But this is neither here nor there since djinn don't exist either"
ANSWER: Angel Gabriel along with all the Angels have no option but to obey the command of God which is what Angel Gabriel did, and who said this Angel was doing something wrong? Angels do not commit sin yes but there are Angels that will carry out punishments in Hellfire that God will command that is far greater than grabbing someone and squeezing them.
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Burninglight
- Guru
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Post #239
What are you saying? This is a gross misconception on Muslims part about Christianity, Christians are free to choose, but not free of the consequences of their choices. We are free only to do what is right as I mentioned, Muslims are slaves of a god of deception the father of all lies. Satan is the author of confusion and he is the ultimate of deception for he is the true "Best of deceivers" Look how well he has deceived Muslims, Mormons and unbelievers.HaLi8993 wrote: @ Burninglight
QUOTE: But you don't that is why I said I cannot prove it to you, You deny proof when it exposes Islam! Most people on this forum can see it except for you.
ANSWER: You cannot prove it to me regarless cause it does not exist, the only person I see denying proof is you and others when shown it, the only thing that has been exposed are the misconceptions about Islam and the lengths people will go to in order to discredit Islam. Islam has already warned us agiainst such behavior and attitutes. Most of the people on the forum are living a life of fairytales thinking they can cruze through life having no responsibilities, exerting no efforts in practicing God's religion and using Jesus (peace be upon him) as a escape goat, saying he died for you sins, so let's commit every sin in the world. Basically eat, sleep and play, do what ever you want when ever you want. They will enjoy this life but would have lost the life of the hereafter.
Christians are forgiven; that is not a license to sin. God is not mocked. A man reaps what he sows. All have sinned. The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is what you need to have eternal life, do you know what the gift of God is?
Post #240
@ Burninglight
QUOTE: "What are you saying? This is a gross misconception on Muslims part about Christianity, Christians are free to choose, but not free of the consequences of their choices. We are free only to do what is right as I mentioned, Muslims are slaves of a god of deception the father of all lies. Satan is the author of confusion and he is the ultimate of deception for he is the true "Best of deceivers" Look how well he has deceived Muslims, Mormons and unbelievers.Â
Christians are forgiven; that is not a license to sin. God is not mocked. A man reaps what he sows. All have sinned. The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is what you need to have eternal life, do you know what the gift of God is?"
ANSWER: We are happy to be slaves of God. What a beautiful privilege, for all that my Lord has done for me why wouldn't I want to worship him.
QUOTE: "What are you saying? This is a gross misconception on Muslims part about Christianity, Christians are free to choose, but not free of the consequences of their choices. We are free only to do what is right as I mentioned, Muslims are slaves of a god of deception the father of all lies. Satan is the author of confusion and he is the ultimate of deception for he is the true "Best of deceivers" Look how well he has deceived Muslims, Mormons and unbelievers.Â
Christians are forgiven; that is not a license to sin. God is not mocked. A man reaps what he sows. All have sinned. The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is what you need to have eternal life, do you know what the gift of God is?"
ANSWER: We are happy to be slaves of God. What a beautiful privilege, for all that my Lord has done for me why wouldn't I want to worship him.
