Did Allah start Christianty?

Burninglight · Post by **Burninglight** » Wed May 30, 2012 3:51 pm

Allah made it look like Jesus died, but he let someone die in Jesus' place to save Jesus according to the Quran. Isn't that a form of substitutionary death? This is something some Muslims tell me God doesn't do; so, I am confused about this.

The Quran states that the unbelievers plot and scheme with deception but Allah is the "best of deceivers" Some English translations state "the best of planners," in context, however, Allah does best what the unbelievers were doing which was deceiving; so, is Allah to blame for starting Christianity or did he know his deception would cause the birth of a religion that Islam could not comprehend or overcome? For instance, Christianity, IMO, has always been bigger, better and stronger than Islam and always will be!

HaLi8993 · Post by **HaLi8993** » Sun Jul 08, 2012 1:41 am

@ A Troubled Man

QUOTE: "Of course, that is a requirement for the spreading of propaganda in the face of facts and reality"

ANSWER: What makes you come to this conclusion??

QUOTE: "That is false, God is not speaking to you or anyone else"

ANSWER: You mean face to face agreed.

QUOTE: "Your points and the Quran have been refuted time and again. You even admitted above you simply don't agree with them and are just making excuses. You don't even understand that those "uncivilized attitudes" are the result of an Islamic propagandist spreading fabrications about Islam. You are creating your own problems here and blaming others.Â

The dishonesty continues unabated."

ANSWER: They have been misunderstood not refuted, am I not entitled to my own beliefs?, those uncivilized attitudes come from a lack of understanding, what problems am I creating? Please point out my dishonesty and I will gladly accept it.

HaLi8993 · Post by **HaLi8993** » Sun Jul 08, 2012 1:48 am

@ A Troubled Man

QUOTE: "It is a simple matter of elementary logic, reason and rationale that a child could understand to deny prophets and messengers of gods, especially the prophets who claimed to talk with angels and gods while being completely alone.Â

Who saw Muhammad talking with Gabriel? No one. Obviously, he's a liar and a fraud"

ANSWER: Reason and rational points to a Creator, it is a natural tenancy that everyone is born with to believe in a God, a child would not deny this, it is his surrounding that impact on his outlook on life.

QUOTE: "Then, how do you know God exists? You don't and neither does anyone else, including Muhammad"

ANSWER: How do you know he doesn't??

HaLi8993 · Post by **HaLi8993** » Sun Jul 08, 2012 1:52 am

@ Burninglight

QUOTE: "They didn't see God when He spoke saying, "This is my beloved son...." but they did hear, and they saw Jesus standing with Moses and Elijah the prophet. Jesus was transfigured before them.Â
So you expect me to accept the Qur'an that Jesus isn't God's son over the testimony of those who saw and heard Jesus. Jesus said the voice came for their sakes. They heard God audibly confirm Jesus is the Son of God; not God's partner, but THE SON OF GOD. I wouldn't wnat to be caught dead standing before God on judgment day being a Muslim!"

ANSWER: What are your references?? Many people saw and heard Prophets. God is the best of judges He will judge between me and you on the day of Judgement.

A Troubled Man · Post by **A Troubled Man** » Sun Jul 08, 2012 10:40 am

HaLi8993 wrote: ANSWER: Reason and rational points to a Creator, it is a natural tenancy that everyone is born with to believe in a God, a child would not deny this, it is his surrounding that impact on his outlook on life.

So what? That doesn't give any credibility to your claims at all. Children merely believe everything was created for a purpose. For example, when asked why the first bird existed, six year old children replied, "to make nice music" and "because it makes the world look nice". Is that reasonable and rational? Do we then support that belief for children or do we teach them about birds?

ANSWER: How do you know he doesn't??

There is no evidence for Gods existence, so how you do know He exists?

A Troubled Man · Post by **A Troubled Man** » Sun Jul 08, 2012 10:42 am

HaLi8993 wrote: Please point out my dishonesty and I will gladly accept it.

That was already done many times to each claim you made. Obviously, you have chosen to ignore it in favor of your propaganda.

A Troubled Man · Post by **A Troubled Man** » Sun Jul 08, 2012 10:44 am

HaLi8993 wrote: ANSWER: This is not in the life of this world but in the hereafter. Why would he need to??

Sorry, but there is no evidence for a hereafter.

Burninglight · Post by **Burninglight** » Sun Jul 08, 2012 4:54 pm

HaLi8993 wrote: @ A Troubled Man

QUOTE: "It is a simple matter of elementary logic, reason and rationale that a child could understand to deny prophets and messengers of gods, especially the prophets who claimed to talk with angels and gods while being completely alone.Â

Who saw Muhammad talking with Gabriel? No one. Obviously, he's a liar and a fraud"

ANSWER: Reason and rational points to a Creator, it is a natural tenancy that everyone is born with to believe in a God, a child would not deny this, it is his surrounding that impact on his outlook on life.

QUOTE: "Then, how do you know God exists? You don't and neither does anyone else, including Muhammad"

ANSWER: How do you know he doesn't??

It may be possible that children are born believing in God, but they are not born as Muslims that is what you are implying. If Islam was the true religion, it would have been in effect a 2 thousand years before Muhammad was born.
What references to you want concerning God saying Jesus is His beloved son? Do you want me to give you the Bible reference? We agree there is a hereafter, God will certainly judge between Islam and Christianity. I am looking froward to seeing Jesus receive the reward of His suffering

HaLi8993 · Post by **HaLi8993** » Mon Jul 09, 2012 6:25 am

@ A Troubled Man

QUOTE: "So what? That doesn't give any credibility to your claims at all. Children merely believe everything was created for a purpose. For example, when asked why the first bird existed, six year old children replied, "to make nice music" and "because it makes the world look nice". Is that reasonable and rational? Do we then support that belief for children or do we teach them about birds?"

ANSWER: If a child is able to come to the conclusion that everything is created for a purpose then what is the purpose of humans according to evolution?? Islam knows its purpose in life.

QUOTE: "There is no evidence for Gods existence, so how you do know He exists?"

ANSWER: Have you read my thread " why God created us"

Quran: 2:118

Those who do not know say, "Why does Allah not speak to us or there come to us a sign?" Thus spoke those before them like their words. Their hearts resemble each other. We have shown clearly the signs to a people who are certain [in faith].

Quran: 2:164

Indeed, in the creation of the heavens and earth, and the alternation of the night and the day, and the [great] ships which sail through the sea with that which benefits people, and what Allah has sent down from the heavens of rain, giving life thereby to the earth after its lifelessness and dispersing therein every [kind of] moving creature, and [His] directing of the winds and the clouds controlled between the heaven and the earth are signs for a people who use reason.

HaLi8993 · Post by **HaLi8993** » Mon Jul 09, 2012 6:28 am

@ A Troubled Man

QUOTE: "That was already done many times to each claim you made. Obviously, you have chosen to ignore it in favor of your propaganda"

ANSWER: Lol come on, I'm not the one making claims I'm on the defensive, I don't ignore my faults I admit it and apologize.Â

HaLi8993 · Post by **HaLi8993** » Mon Jul 09, 2012 6:29 am

@ A Troubled Man

QUOTE: "Sorry, but there is no evidence for a hereafter."

ANSWER: Maybe not for an Atheist but for a Muslim there is plenty of evidence.