There are many misconceptions that exist within the field of Islam one being the topic of women. Unfortunately due to ignorance and lack of knowledge of some people and the ever growing propaganda and Islamaphobia that exist today, including the ever growing media agenda’s that govern the way people think and act, women are deemed as being unequal to men in Islam.
We are all aware that women and men are not alike so I don’t understand when someone makes the statement that Islam should practice equality, what do you mean by equality??? This word – equality – which many thinkers in both the east and the west advocate in various fields of life is a word which is based on deviation and a lack of understanding, especially when it is attributed to the religion to Islam. One of the things that people misunderstand is when they say that “Islam is the religion of equality�. What they should say is that Islam is the religion of justice.
Here we should note that there are some people who speak of equality instead of justice, and this is a mistake. We should not say equality, because equality implies no differentiation between the two. Because of this unjust call for equality, people start to ask, what is the difference between male and female?’ So they made males and females the same. We are all aware that the Male is not like the female.
God says in the Quran:
“And the male is not like the female�[Quran Aal ‘Imraan 3:36] The male is different from the female in many ways, in his strength, in his body, in his toughness and roughness, whereas women are soft and gentle. Women are like men in some aspects and they differ from them in others. Most of the rulings of Islam apply to men and women equally.
In cases where a distinction is made between the sexes, the Muslim regards that as a mercy from God and a sign of His knowledge of His creation, but the arrogant people see it as oppression and injustice, so he stubbornly insists on claiming that men and women are the same. So let him tell us how a man can carry a foetus and breastfeed it? He stubbornly ignores the weakness of women and how they bleed during their monthly period, and he stubbornly refuses to accept reality.
But the Muslim is still at peace with his faith, surrendering to the command of God. “Should not He who has created know? And He is the Most Kind and Courteous (to His slaves), All Aware (of everything)� [Quran al-Mulk 67:14 ]
Misconceptions about Islam:
Moderator: Moderators
Post #561
@ Autodidact
QUOTE: "Yes, we understand that is what you believe. But this forum is to discuss whether your beliefs are correct, and to debate whether or not they are. It turns out that you are wrong, if anything, religious people are more likely to violate boundaries of decency. For example, you don't see atheists strapping on explosive vests and walking into marketplaces full of Muslims; only Muslims do that"
ANSWER: If indeed I am wrong then it's is up to you to prove to me that Muslims that are practicing true Islam are violated such boundaries. And to prove to me that this is part of Islam.Â
QUOTE: "The ones they figure out are right"
ANSWER: Well as Muslims we figure that God's law is the best, so why is it a problem with you if we run our countries with these laws??
QUOTE: "It should be up to the individual woman and her family. If a woman is able to work in construction, and wants to, then she should get to do that. We call that "equality," and is what Islam does not have"
ANSWER: We are not talking about employment opportunities we are talking about oppression, in Islam it is up to her and her family to decide, if the environment is safe.Â
QUOTE: "Some can, some can't. It's up to the individual"
ANSWER: How many women can lift heavy loads compared to men, very little hence even if there are a few that can majority cannot hence why in Islam the laws are set for the benefit of the majority.
QUOTE: "I agree, it certainly has its oppressive elements.Â
However, it's much better than a 13-year old being forced to marry an old man she has never met and did not choose, being raped by him, and dying in childbirth, or being beaten because she runs away. Now that's what I call oppression"
ANSWER: So why is it that when a Muslim protects herself from such oppression that she is looked down upon for not conforming to the values of a oppressive society?? and again this is cultural not Islam. If you could prove to me from our sources that Islam accepts such things I would agree with you. We are not allowed to force women into marriage, moreover they would need to have reached the age of maturity before they would be able to consummate the marriage. Yes I agree it is oppression something that Islam disallows.
QUOTE: "So your assertion is that women leaders do not do as good a job as male leaders? Do you have some evidence to support this assertion?Â
ANSWER: Yes this is correct. Positions of leadership and high public office means taking on many responsibilities, many of which require a female to be in gatherings of men and to intermingle with them which is not allowed in Islam due to her own protection and safeguarding her from all evil, hence this job is not suitable for her.
Undoubtedly this is proven by reality. People know from experience that only men are fit for leadership, because women by nature are more emotional and more easily swayed by their feelings and compassion. These qualities have been created in women to enable them to carry out their most important duty, which is that of motherhood and nurturing children. Men, on the other hand, are not usually swayed by their emotions as women are. Their way is usually one of logic and deliberation, which form the essence of responsibility and leadership.
With regard to other administrative positions, there is no reason why women should not be appointed to run institutions where they will work with other women and not men, because in this case there are no evidence reservations about their work.
QUOTE: "And that of every fair-minded person"
ANSWER: A fair minded person would see the difference between religion and criminal acts that have nothing to do with Islam, if they truly tried to learn about Islam without judging it through the acts of others.Â
QUOTE: "Yes, we understand that is what you believe. But this forum is to discuss whether your beliefs are correct, and to debate whether or not they are. It turns out that you are wrong, if anything, religious people are more likely to violate boundaries of decency. For example, you don't see atheists strapping on explosive vests and walking into marketplaces full of Muslims; only Muslims do that"
ANSWER: If indeed I am wrong then it's is up to you to prove to me that Muslims that are practicing true Islam are violated such boundaries. And to prove to me that this is part of Islam.Â
QUOTE: "The ones they figure out are right"
ANSWER: Well as Muslims we figure that God's law is the best, so why is it a problem with you if we run our countries with these laws??
QUOTE: "It should be up to the individual woman and her family. If a woman is able to work in construction, and wants to, then she should get to do that. We call that "equality," and is what Islam does not have"
ANSWER: We are not talking about employment opportunities we are talking about oppression, in Islam it is up to her and her family to decide, if the environment is safe.Â
QUOTE: "Some can, some can't. It's up to the individual"
ANSWER: How many women can lift heavy loads compared to men, very little hence even if there are a few that can majority cannot hence why in Islam the laws are set for the benefit of the majority.
QUOTE: "I agree, it certainly has its oppressive elements.Â
However, it's much better than a 13-year old being forced to marry an old man she has never met and did not choose, being raped by him, and dying in childbirth, or being beaten because she runs away. Now that's what I call oppression"
ANSWER: So why is it that when a Muslim protects herself from such oppression that she is looked down upon for not conforming to the values of a oppressive society?? and again this is cultural not Islam. If you could prove to me from our sources that Islam accepts such things I would agree with you. We are not allowed to force women into marriage, moreover they would need to have reached the age of maturity before they would be able to consummate the marriage. Yes I agree it is oppression something that Islam disallows.
QUOTE: "So your assertion is that women leaders do not do as good a job as male leaders? Do you have some evidence to support this assertion?Â
ANSWER: Yes this is correct. Positions of leadership and high public office means taking on many responsibilities, many of which require a female to be in gatherings of men and to intermingle with them which is not allowed in Islam due to her own protection and safeguarding her from all evil, hence this job is not suitable for her.
Undoubtedly this is proven by reality. People know from experience that only men are fit for leadership, because women by nature are more emotional and more easily swayed by their feelings and compassion. These qualities have been created in women to enable them to carry out their most important duty, which is that of motherhood and nurturing children. Men, on the other hand, are not usually swayed by their emotions as women are. Their way is usually one of logic and deliberation, which form the essence of responsibility and leadership.
With regard to other administrative positions, there is no reason why women should not be appointed to run institutions where they will work with other women and not men, because in this case there are no evidence reservations about their work.
QUOTE: "And that of every fair-minded person"
ANSWER: A fair minded person would see the difference between religion and criminal acts that have nothing to do with Islam, if they truly tried to learn about Islam without judging it through the acts of others.Â
Post #563
@ Autodidact
QUOTE: "Who are you talking to here?Â
I presented a lot of evidence of how miserable life is in Muslim countries. Would you like more? There's pretty much an infinite amount.Â
We don't what to know what you see, but why you see it, so we can figure out which of us is right.Â
For example, I have shown that most of the world's most miserable, violent, poor and illiterate countries are Muslim. Can you show that I am wrong?"
ANSWER: You haven't presented any information that can relate the practice of Islam to unhappiness, the only thing you have presented is the crimes of others in association to other than religion and unhappiness due to lifestyle as well as cultural practices, you have also failed to prove that Islam allows such crimes.
I think I'm making it very clear the way I see it, lol
And why do you think this is the case?? I'm not saying you are wrong but to suggest that this is due to the implementation of Islam is wrong and to suggest that there are no external influences and events (i.e.. war, culture, lack of education, minimal resources, healthcare, economic instability etc..) Â that are effecting the situations of Muslims today is ignorance.
QUOTE: "Who are you talking to here?Â
I presented a lot of evidence of how miserable life is in Muslim countries. Would you like more? There's pretty much an infinite amount.Â
We don't what to know what you see, but why you see it, so we can figure out which of us is right.Â
For example, I have shown that most of the world's most miserable, violent, poor and illiterate countries are Muslim. Can you show that I am wrong?"
ANSWER: You haven't presented any information that can relate the practice of Islam to unhappiness, the only thing you have presented is the crimes of others in association to other than religion and unhappiness due to lifestyle as well as cultural practices, you have also failed to prove that Islam allows such crimes.
I think I'm making it very clear the way I see it, lol
And why do you think this is the case?? I'm not saying you are wrong but to suggest that this is due to the implementation of Islam is wrong and to suggest that there are no external influences and events (i.e.. war, culture, lack of education, minimal resources, healthcare, economic instability etc..) Â that are effecting the situations of Muslims today is ignorance.
Post #564
@ Autodidact
QUOTE: "Who decides whether they are following Islam? So if I follow you, if I meet someone, and they say they are Muslim, that doesn't necessarily mean they are? They might be lying? Do a lot of people-who-say-they-are-Muslims lie?"
ANSWER: The Quran and Sunnah of the Prophet (peace be upon him), no it doesn't mean they are Muslims, as there are many things that take one out of the fold of Islam. They could be lying lol, I'm not sure if they believe lying is permissible I guess anything is possible.
QUOTE: "No, I merely showed that Muslims are less happy than non-Muslims, the opposite of what you said. As to why, we would need to speculate and discuss. But before we move on to why, we first need to establish and agree on this fact. Do you agree or disagree that Muslims tend to be less happy than non-Muslims?"
ANSWER: I disagree, based on applying the laws of God in full.
QUOTE: "Sorry, you lost me again. See you in the evolution thread"
ANSWER: ok
QUOTE: "Who decides whether they are following Islam? So if I follow you, if I meet someone, and they say they are Muslim, that doesn't necessarily mean they are? They might be lying? Do a lot of people-who-say-they-are-Muslims lie?"
ANSWER: The Quran and Sunnah of the Prophet (peace be upon him), no it doesn't mean they are Muslims, as there are many things that take one out of the fold of Islam. They could be lying lol, I'm not sure if they believe lying is permissible I guess anything is possible.
QUOTE: "No, I merely showed that Muslims are less happy than non-Muslims, the opposite of what you said. As to why, we would need to speculate and discuss. But before we move on to why, we first need to establish and agree on this fact. Do you agree or disagree that Muslims tend to be less happy than non-Muslims?"
ANSWER: I disagree, based on applying the laws of God in full.
QUOTE: "Sorry, you lost me again. See you in the evolution thread"
ANSWER: ok
Post #565
@ A Troubled Man
QUOTE: "And, so much of what your god says about reality is completely wrong, we can ignore him"
ANSWER: I would appreciate it if you could prove this.
QUOTE: "Reason and rationale, obviously."
ANSWER: Yes, that is why we implement the laws of God, every persons reason and rational would be different how would you reconcile between the differences??
QUOTE: "LOL! Hilarious. What your saying is that women who choose to work in the mining or construction industry are oppressed? Â
ANSWER: What I'm saying is that society has no problem with allowing such a thing, and encouraging this and hiding behind the face of "equality" for there own advantages in order to boost the economy and forcing are promoting women into such oppressive jobs like there is nothing wrong with it.
QUOTE: "That is a fantasy world and has nothing to do with reality. LOL!"
ANSWER: So equality is fantasy??
QUOTE: "LOL! You seriously have a very strange notion of oppression that really has nothing to do with it's definition"
ANSWER: So I guess you see nothing oppressive about a society that dictates how you should behave and what you should wear.
QUOTE: "Women are as effective leaders as men, that is a fact of reality"
ANSWER: Not in government.Â
QUOTE: "Yes, I know, that is why Islam is useless in describing and guiding reality. Thank you for finally admitting that about Islam"
ANSWER: Come on you can do better than that!
QUOTE: "LOL! So, now you claim that women who work are oppressed?"
ANSWER: If they feel there is no option for them, or they are forced by someone or society.
QUOTE: "Entirely irrelevant. Do you have a point?"
ANSWER: Â Lol, what do you mean it is irrelevant, is this equality?? why doesn't the man get a gift at the same face value as women?? I guess cause it would be oppressive for the woman to work to be able to afford it right lol, isn't it you that said equality should be applied in every situation considering you believe that men and women are equal (the same). Then according to this understanding why doesn't the man get the same?
My reply would be because he is different and hence it is not in his nature to expect such a gift.
QUOTE: "LOL! You have made a mockery of this thread and have done nothing but show just how low a Muslim will stoop in order to propagandize Islam. You deny and ignore facts in favor of holy scriptures that fail miserably in supporting reality"
ANSWER: lol, no need for slander just trying to make a point, I don't intend any harm by anything I say. Reality is clear to those who want to see it.
QUOTE: "And, so much of what your god says about reality is completely wrong, we can ignore him"
ANSWER: I would appreciate it if you could prove this.
QUOTE: "Reason and rationale, obviously."
ANSWER: Yes, that is why we implement the laws of God, every persons reason and rational would be different how would you reconcile between the differences??
QUOTE: "LOL! Hilarious. What your saying is that women who choose to work in the mining or construction industry are oppressed? Â
ANSWER: What I'm saying is that society has no problem with allowing such a thing, and encouraging this and hiding behind the face of "equality" for there own advantages in order to boost the economy and forcing are promoting women into such oppressive jobs like there is nothing wrong with it.
QUOTE: "That is a fantasy world and has nothing to do with reality. LOL!"
ANSWER: So equality is fantasy??
QUOTE: "LOL! You seriously have a very strange notion of oppression that really has nothing to do with it's definition"
ANSWER: So I guess you see nothing oppressive about a society that dictates how you should behave and what you should wear.
QUOTE: "Women are as effective leaders as men, that is a fact of reality"
ANSWER: Not in government.Â
QUOTE: "Yes, I know, that is why Islam is useless in describing and guiding reality. Thank you for finally admitting that about Islam"
ANSWER: Come on you can do better than that!
QUOTE: "LOL! So, now you claim that women who work are oppressed?"
ANSWER: If they feel there is no option for them, or they are forced by someone or society.
QUOTE: "Entirely irrelevant. Do you have a point?"
ANSWER: Â Lol, what do you mean it is irrelevant, is this equality?? why doesn't the man get a gift at the same face value as women?? I guess cause it would be oppressive for the woman to work to be able to afford it right lol, isn't it you that said equality should be applied in every situation considering you believe that men and women are equal (the same). Then according to this understanding why doesn't the man get the same?
My reply would be because he is different and hence it is not in his nature to expect such a gift.
QUOTE: "LOL! You have made a mockery of this thread and have done nothing but show just how low a Muslim will stoop in order to propagandize Islam. You deny and ignore facts in favor of holy scriptures that fail miserably in supporting reality"
ANSWER: lol, no need for slander just trying to make a point, I don't intend any harm by anything I say. Reality is clear to those who want to see it.
Post #568
@ A Troubled ManÂ
QUOTE: "Yes, you lifted that from this Islamic propaganda site...Â
http://harunyahya.com/en/books/4190/The ... apter/5156
Here are their conclusions which are no more than faith based religious beliefs. They denounce evolution and state a "Mighty Creator" as fact, yet they have absolutely no evidence whatsoever to show a creator and as you can see they refer to the Quran. Liars and frauds.Â
From that website...Â
"All these things reveal two very important truths: The theory of evolution, which maintains that living things are descended from a common ancestor by means of random changes, is not true. The history of life definitively and clearly refutes the theory of evolution. The second fact is that there is a Mighty Creator, possessed of a matchless creative artistry, an incomparable Intelligence, infinite Knowledge, and a Power which makes life suited to the Earth and Who creates very different living things from nothing.Â
That Creator is Almighty God, Lord of the Worlds, Who has sent messengers and prophets to mankind throughout history, and called people to the truth with the Torah, the Psalms, the Bible and finally the Qur'an. "
ANSWER: Yes it was taken from that site, with ample evidence. I'm very sorry I know I should have cited the page, but my stance still remains, if you cannot prove this evidence wrong then we have nothing to stand on.Â
QUOTE: "Yes, you lifted that from this Islamic propaganda site...Â
http://harunyahya.com/en/books/4190/The ... apter/5156
Here are their conclusions which are no more than faith based religious beliefs. They denounce evolution and state a "Mighty Creator" as fact, yet they have absolutely no evidence whatsoever to show a creator and as you can see they refer to the Quran. Liars and frauds.Â
From that website...Â
"All these things reveal two very important truths: The theory of evolution, which maintains that living things are descended from a common ancestor by means of random changes, is not true. The history of life definitively and clearly refutes the theory of evolution. The second fact is that there is a Mighty Creator, possessed of a matchless creative artistry, an incomparable Intelligence, infinite Knowledge, and a Power which makes life suited to the Earth and Who creates very different living things from nothing.Â
That Creator is Almighty God, Lord of the Worlds, Who has sent messengers and prophets to mankind throughout history, and called people to the truth with the Torah, the Psalms, the Bible and finally the Qur'an. "
ANSWER: Yes it was taken from that site, with ample evidence. I'm very sorry I know I should have cited the page, but my stance still remains, if you cannot prove this evidence wrong then we have nothing to stand on.Â
Post #570
@ Autodidact
QUOTE: "Â So, in your view, is slavery, meaning owning people like property, right or wrong?"Â
ANSWER: Show me how they are oppressive, slavery in Islam does not treat people like property.[/quote]Â
Please clear up my misconceptions. The more we talk, the more confused I get.Â
Slavery MEANS owning a person as property. That is the definition of slavery. When we say slavery, we mean "a system under which people are treated as property to be bought and sold, and are forced to work." [wiki] That is what the word slavery means.
So, using this definition, does Islam allow slavery, or prohibit it?Â
Using this definition, in your view, is slavery right or wrong?
ANSWER:Â Â Yes, Islam allows slavery and it is right as for the definition I do not believe this definition fits into the way slavery is in Islam.
Islam affirms that God, created man fully accountable, and enjoined duties upon him, to which reward and punishment are connected on the basis of man’s free will and choice.Â
No human being has the right to restrict this freedom or take away that choice unlawfully, whoever dares to do that is a wrongdoer and oppressor. Â
Slavery is permitted in Islam, but we should examine the matter with fairness and with the aim of seeking the truth, and we should examine the details of the rulings on slavery in Islam, with regard to the sources and reasons for it, and how to deal with the slave and how his rights and duties are equal to those of the free man, and the ways in which he may earn his freedom, of which there are many in Shariah.
QUOTE: "Â So, in your view, is slavery, meaning owning people like property, right or wrong?"Â
ANSWER: Show me how they are oppressive, slavery in Islam does not treat people like property.[/quote]Â
Please clear up my misconceptions. The more we talk, the more confused I get.Â
Slavery MEANS owning a person as property. That is the definition of slavery. When we say slavery, we mean "a system under which people are treated as property to be bought and sold, and are forced to work." [wiki] That is what the word slavery means.
So, using this definition, does Islam allow slavery, or prohibit it?Â
Using this definition, in your view, is slavery right or wrong?
ANSWER:Â Â Yes, Islam allows slavery and it is right as for the definition I do not believe this definition fits into the way slavery is in Islam.
Islam affirms that God, created man fully accountable, and enjoined duties upon him, to which reward and punishment are connected on the basis of man’s free will and choice.Â
No human being has the right to restrict this freedom or take away that choice unlawfully, whoever dares to do that is a wrongdoer and oppressor. Â
Slavery is permitted in Islam, but we should examine the matter with fairness and with the aim of seeking the truth, and we should examine the details of the rulings on slavery in Islam, with regard to the sources and reasons for it, and how to deal with the slave and how his rights and duties are equal to those of the free man, and the ways in which he may earn his freedom, of which there are many in Shariah.
