There are many misconceptions that exist within the field of Islam one being the topic of women. Unfortunately due to ignorance and lack of knowledge of some people and the ever growing propaganda and Islamaphobia that exist today, including the ever growing media agenda’s that govern the way people think and act, women are deemed as being unequal to men in Islam.
We are all aware that women and men are not alike so I don’t understand when someone makes the statement that Islam should practice equality, what do you mean by equality??? This word – equality – which many thinkers in both the east and the west advocate in various fields of life is a word which is based on deviation and a lack of understanding, especially when it is attributed to the religion to Islam. One of the things that people misunderstand is when they say that “Islam is the religion of equality�. What they should say is that Islam is the religion of justice.
Here we should note that there are some people who speak of equality instead of justice, and this is a mistake. We should not say equality, because equality implies no differentiation between the two. Because of this unjust call for equality, people start to ask, what is the difference between male and female?’ So they made males and females the same. We are all aware that the Male is not like the female.
God says in the Quran:
“And the male is not like the female�[Quran Aal ‘Imraan 3:36] The male is different from the female in many ways, in his strength, in his body, in his toughness and roughness, whereas women are soft and gentle. Women are like men in some aspects and they differ from them in others. Most of the rulings of Islam apply to men and women equally.
In cases where a distinction is made between the sexes, the Muslim regards that as a mercy from God and a sign of His knowledge of His creation, but the arrogant people see it as oppression and injustice, so he stubbornly insists on claiming that men and women are the same. So let him tell us how a man can carry a foetus and breastfeed it? He stubbornly ignores the weakness of women and how they bleed during their monthly period, and he stubbornly refuses to accept reality.
But the Muslim is still at peace with his faith, surrendering to the command of God. “Should not He who has created know? And He is the Most Kind and Courteous (to His slaves), All Aware (of everything)� [Quran al-Mulk 67:14 ]
Misconceptions about Islam:
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Autodidact
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Post #631
The slavery I am thinking of is the definition of the word "slavery." If we can't use the common definitions of words, the conversation becomes nonsensical.@ Autodidact
QUOTE: "I think that Islam allows slavery, but your answers confuse me. In your view, does Islam allow slavery?"
ANSWER: Yes it does, what don't you get, slavery in Islam is not the slavery you are thinking of as proven.
I am not asking you about the details, rules, or conditions of Islamic slavery. I am asking you a simple yes or no question, which you are going to great lengths to avoid. That of course is more telling than if you had answered it. Using the common definition of the word "slavery," in which one person owns another as property, does Islam allow that?
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Autodidact
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Post #632
You are right. As long as they are restrained by secular laws, many Muslims are able to live lawfully.HaLi8993 wrote: @ Autodidact
QUOTE: "Because in secular Western democracies, the conditions that encourage happiness prevail: freedom, prosperity, health, education. They enjoy the benefits of the secular democracies they oppose. If they hate secular democracy, why do they not stay in the Muslim countries they are born in?"
ANSWER: You said where ever there are Muslims we find these things (crimes), obviously this is not true then is it?, because they feel they are forced to migrate due to conditions they live in.
Yes, you are right, and we have a name for those conditions they live in. We call them "Islam." If I lived in them, I'd migrate too.
Post #633
@ Herictic
QUOTE: "Incorrect. There isnt any verse in the entire Quran that directly state the earth is round. Not one actually states this. The verses that the Quran uses either directly state its flat or you are very ambiguous. You claim the Quran is amazing, yet every time a verse is used to show this, its very murky or says something entirely different.Â
ANSWER: Firstly I would like to point out that Arabic is a very complex, artistic and poetical language by nature. A single word can mean a host of meanings. The art and beauty of Arabic comes in how a person constructs and puts together words to form a sentence or paragraph. Â The art and creativity in the style and poetry are what determine the strength and beauty of the sentence or poem. That is why the Noble Quran is extremely difficult to understand sometimes, even by the fluent and professional Arabic speakers. Â That is why Muslims always say that the translations of the Noble Quran do it absolutely no justice, because the poetry and complexity of language are completely compromised in the translation. Â What the English reader, for instance, is left with when reading the English Noble Quran, is the subject that the Noble Verses are talking about. Â But he/she doesn't see the beautiful and complex stylistic and linguistic Divine Miracle that the Arabic text carries in it.Â
If we look at the verse 79:30Â The Quran mentions the actual shape of the earth:
“And we have made the earth egg shaped�. [Al-Qur’an 79:30]
The Arabic word Dahaha means egg shaped. It also means an expanse. Dahaha is derived from Duhiya which specifically refers to the egg of an ostrich which is geospherical in shape, exactly like the shape of the earth. This does not mean flat.
Furthermore when we take the verse that we were discussing it is incomplete and taken out of context:
“And Allah has made the earth for you as a carpet (spread out).� [Al-Qur’an 71:19]
Â
If we take a look at the next verse. It says:
“That ye may go about therein, in spacious roads.� [Al-Qur’an 71:20]
A similar message is repeated in Surah TaHa:
“He Who has made for you the earth like a carpet spread out; has enabled you to go about therein by roads (and channels)....� [Al-Qur’an 20:53]
The Quran rightly refers to it like a carpet spread out, so that we can travel along its roads and paths.
QUOTE: "Â Here is ONE example of many that show the earth is flat according to the Quran.Â
"On that day we shall remove the mountains, and thou wilt see the earth as a level stretch..." (see also 20:104-107).Â
How much more clear can this be? "
ANSWER: This verse you have quoted is in relation to the destruction of the mountains, and the Earth becoming a Smooth Plain on the day of Resurrection.
"as a level smooth plain" - This means one expanse spread out, the land will be level, hence you will see therein no crookedness nor curve. Meaning that day you will not see in the earth any valley, hill, or any place, whether low or elevated.
There is not a single verse in the Quran that sights the earth as flat. The Quran only compares the earth’s crust with a carpet.Â
Who says that a carpet can only be put on a flat surface and not a sphere such as the earth. You can cover the globe with a carpet.
Furthermore in the Quran it says in several verses that the earth has been spread out:
“And We have spread out the (spacious) earth: how excellently We do spread out!� [Al-Qur’an 51:48]
Similarly the Qur’an also mentions in several other verses that the earth is an expanse:
“Have We not made the earth as a wide expanse� “And the mountains as pegs?� [Al-Qur’an 78:6-7]
None of these verses of the Quran contain even the slightest implication that the earth is flat. It only indicates that the earth is spacious and the reason for this spaciousness of the earth is mentioned. The Glorious Qur’an says:
“O My servants who believe! truly. spacious is My Earth: therefore serve ye Me –(And Me alone)!� [Al-Qur’an 29:56]
QUOTE: "As for your scripture claiming it shows the earth is round. Show me one verse in the entire Quran that states the earth moves. Just one. You cant. Yet it clearly states the sun and moon move in an orbit. Why doesnt it mention the earth moves? Now imagine you are looking up, what would you notice of the sun and moon? They both appear to move AROUND the earth. Yet in reality, its the earth that moves around the sun. The orbit yes is round, but it says nothing of the earth being round.
. Sura 36:40Â
"it is not permitted to the sun to catch up the moon, nor can the night outstrip the day, each just swims along in its own orbit"Â
This makes perfect sense if the Quran was describing the sun and moon moving aroud the earth. The context is day and night, how its formed. The sun comes, the moon follows. But notice the key point, "to catch up". In other words, this is describing perfectly the two bodies moving in orbit around the earth. In reality, the moon goes around the earth, the sun does not.Â
Again, these verses describe perfectly how it would appear to someone who did NOT know how the how it worked.Â
ANSWER:Â This verse mentions an essential fact discovered by modern astronomy, i.e. the existence of the individual orbits of the Sun and the Moon, and their journey through space with their own motion. The 'fixed place' towards, which the sun travels, carrying with it the solar system, has been located exactly by modern astronomy. It has been given a name, the Solar Apex. The solar system is indeed moving in space towards a point situated in the constellation of Hercules (alpha Layer) whose exact location is firmly established.Â
The moon rotates around its axis in the same duration that it takes to revolve around the earth. It takes approximately 29½ days to complete one rotation.
(source: modern science and Islam)
QUOTE: "As for the two easts and two wests, its also a description of a flat earth. Imagine a flat earth. If you stand on one side of the earth, you would have two easts, left and right of you. If you were on the opposite side of the earth, you would have two wests, to the right and left of you. North would be up towards the heavens, south down.Â
The bottom line is this. The two verses you gave do not prove a round earth. Also, a round earth was already known by the time this was written. Mohammed had interaction with many people in his lifetime, being a trader. Such knowledge IF the Quran stated it, shows no miracle at all.Â
I'm sure I can easily debunk every suppose miracle in the Quran. Either such knowledge was already known or the verses you would use are so ambiguous that any meaning can be derived from them. If the Quran is so amazing, it should make claims no one else could possibly known and to be 100% accurate and clear"
ANSWER: Have you evidence as to who knew the earth was round 1400 years ago?Â
How could the Prophet (peace be upon him) know that the sun rises and goes down in two different places in the east and the west at different seasons?
QUOTE: "Incorrect. There isnt any verse in the entire Quran that directly state the earth is round. Not one actually states this. The verses that the Quran uses either directly state its flat or you are very ambiguous. You claim the Quran is amazing, yet every time a verse is used to show this, its very murky or says something entirely different.Â
ANSWER: Firstly I would like to point out that Arabic is a very complex, artistic and poetical language by nature. A single word can mean a host of meanings. The art and beauty of Arabic comes in how a person constructs and puts together words to form a sentence or paragraph. Â The art and creativity in the style and poetry are what determine the strength and beauty of the sentence or poem. That is why the Noble Quran is extremely difficult to understand sometimes, even by the fluent and professional Arabic speakers. Â That is why Muslims always say that the translations of the Noble Quran do it absolutely no justice, because the poetry and complexity of language are completely compromised in the translation. Â What the English reader, for instance, is left with when reading the English Noble Quran, is the subject that the Noble Verses are talking about. Â But he/she doesn't see the beautiful and complex stylistic and linguistic Divine Miracle that the Arabic text carries in it.Â
If we look at the verse 79:30Â The Quran mentions the actual shape of the earth:
“And we have made the earth egg shaped�. [Al-Qur’an 79:30]
The Arabic word Dahaha means egg shaped. It also means an expanse. Dahaha is derived from Duhiya which specifically refers to the egg of an ostrich which is geospherical in shape, exactly like the shape of the earth. This does not mean flat.
Furthermore when we take the verse that we were discussing it is incomplete and taken out of context:
“And Allah has made the earth for you as a carpet (spread out).� [Al-Qur’an 71:19]
Â
If we take a look at the next verse. It says:
“That ye may go about therein, in spacious roads.� [Al-Qur’an 71:20]
A similar message is repeated in Surah TaHa:
“He Who has made for you the earth like a carpet spread out; has enabled you to go about therein by roads (and channels)....� [Al-Qur’an 20:53]
The Quran rightly refers to it like a carpet spread out, so that we can travel along its roads and paths.
QUOTE: "Â Here is ONE example of many that show the earth is flat according to the Quran.Â
"On that day we shall remove the mountains, and thou wilt see the earth as a level stretch..." (see also 20:104-107).Â
How much more clear can this be? "
ANSWER: This verse you have quoted is in relation to the destruction of the mountains, and the Earth becoming a Smooth Plain on the day of Resurrection.
"as a level smooth plain" - This means one expanse spread out, the land will be level, hence you will see therein no crookedness nor curve. Meaning that day you will not see in the earth any valley, hill, or any place, whether low or elevated.
There is not a single verse in the Quran that sights the earth as flat. The Quran only compares the earth’s crust with a carpet.Â
Who says that a carpet can only be put on a flat surface and not a sphere such as the earth. You can cover the globe with a carpet.
Furthermore in the Quran it says in several verses that the earth has been spread out:
“And We have spread out the (spacious) earth: how excellently We do spread out!� [Al-Qur’an 51:48]
Similarly the Qur’an also mentions in several other verses that the earth is an expanse:
“Have We not made the earth as a wide expanse� “And the mountains as pegs?� [Al-Qur’an 78:6-7]
None of these verses of the Quran contain even the slightest implication that the earth is flat. It only indicates that the earth is spacious and the reason for this spaciousness of the earth is mentioned. The Glorious Qur’an says:
“O My servants who believe! truly. spacious is My Earth: therefore serve ye Me –(And Me alone)!� [Al-Qur’an 29:56]
QUOTE: "As for your scripture claiming it shows the earth is round. Show me one verse in the entire Quran that states the earth moves. Just one. You cant. Yet it clearly states the sun and moon move in an orbit. Why doesnt it mention the earth moves? Now imagine you are looking up, what would you notice of the sun and moon? They both appear to move AROUND the earth. Yet in reality, its the earth that moves around the sun. The orbit yes is round, but it says nothing of the earth being round.
. Sura 36:40Â
"it is not permitted to the sun to catch up the moon, nor can the night outstrip the day, each just swims along in its own orbit"Â
This makes perfect sense if the Quran was describing the sun and moon moving aroud the earth. The context is day and night, how its formed. The sun comes, the moon follows. But notice the key point, "to catch up". In other words, this is describing perfectly the two bodies moving in orbit around the earth. In reality, the moon goes around the earth, the sun does not.Â
Again, these verses describe perfectly how it would appear to someone who did NOT know how the how it worked.Â
ANSWER:Â This verse mentions an essential fact discovered by modern astronomy, i.e. the existence of the individual orbits of the Sun and the Moon, and their journey through space with their own motion. The 'fixed place' towards, which the sun travels, carrying with it the solar system, has been located exactly by modern astronomy. It has been given a name, the Solar Apex. The solar system is indeed moving in space towards a point situated in the constellation of Hercules (alpha Layer) whose exact location is firmly established.Â
The moon rotates around its axis in the same duration that it takes to revolve around the earth. It takes approximately 29½ days to complete one rotation.
(source: modern science and Islam)
QUOTE: "As for the two easts and two wests, its also a description of a flat earth. Imagine a flat earth. If you stand on one side of the earth, you would have two easts, left and right of you. If you were on the opposite side of the earth, you would have two wests, to the right and left of you. North would be up towards the heavens, south down.Â
The bottom line is this. The two verses you gave do not prove a round earth. Also, a round earth was already known by the time this was written. Mohammed had interaction with many people in his lifetime, being a trader. Such knowledge IF the Quran stated it, shows no miracle at all.Â
I'm sure I can easily debunk every suppose miracle in the Quran. Either such knowledge was already known or the verses you would use are so ambiguous that any meaning can be derived from them. If the Quran is so amazing, it should make claims no one else could possibly known and to be 100% accurate and clear"
ANSWER: Have you evidence as to who knew the earth was round 1400 years ago?Â
How could the Prophet (peace be upon him) know that the sun rises and goes down in two different places in the east and the west at different seasons?
Post #634
@ A Troubled ManÂ
QUOTE: "The point isn't about how many wife beatings occur, the point is following a holy book with a god who condones and encourages wife beating."
ANSWER: And that's what I'm waiting to see, evidence that Islam condones and encourages wife beating.
QUOTE: "The point isn't about how many wife beatings occur, the point is following a holy book with a god who condones and encourages wife beating."
ANSWER: And that's what I'm waiting to see, evidence that Islam condones and encourages wife beating.
Post #635
@ A Troubled Man
QUOTE: "Ridiculous, that verse says absolutely nothing about the earth being round"Â
ANSWER: A Troubled Man, everything I say is Islamic propaganda according to you so I have become accustomed to your style of debate.Â
QUOTE: "LOL! Hilarious explanation. Where does it say anything about the sun rising or setting in a sphere.Â
Amazing dishonesty.Â
ANSWER:Â It is clear that in the Quran the Sun and Moon follow specific trajectories:
"It is He Who created night and day and the Sun and Moon, each one swimming in a sphere. (Qur'an, 21:33)"
QUOTE: "That verse talks about the sun and moon floating like that of a spinning wheel, which does not indicate anything about the earth being round flat or rectangular.Â
You're just making up stuff that is not related. More Islamic propaganda."
ANSWER: Is a spinning wheel flat? Lol
QUOTE: "Ridiculous, that verse says absolutely nothing about the earth being round"Â
ANSWER: A Troubled Man, everything I say is Islamic propaganda according to you so I have become accustomed to your style of debate.Â
QUOTE: "LOL! Hilarious explanation. Where does it say anything about the sun rising or setting in a sphere.Â
Amazing dishonesty.Â
ANSWER:Â It is clear that in the Quran the Sun and Moon follow specific trajectories:
"It is He Who created night and day and the Sun and Moon, each one swimming in a sphere. (Qur'an, 21:33)"
QUOTE: "That verse talks about the sun and moon floating like that of a spinning wheel, which does not indicate anything about the earth being round flat or rectangular.Â
You're just making up stuff that is not related. More Islamic propaganda."
ANSWER: Is a spinning wheel flat? Lol
Post #636
@ Autodidact
QUOTE: "That's what I'm doing. Read back through the thread and see how much evidence I have provided for everything I have said"
ANSWER: Read back and see how much evidence I have provided in return, your evidences are crimes of others not evidence that Islam accepts such things.
QUOTE: "Do you disagree with any of them?"
ANSWER: Your joking right?
QUOTE: "Now I realize that you have a new, innovative interpretaton of Islam, unique to you, that is not followed by most Muslims, and you are certainly entitled to it. You are not entitled to simply declare that it is the one True Islam, and all the other Muslims are wrong.Â
I encourage you, however, to tell them that, in hopes it will reduce these kinds of atrocities in future. That is, if you dare.Â
ANSWER: Hold on a minute you said there was fatwas against them, who were you referring to? Were you not talking about the innocent Belgians that were killed?
So you want me to agree that the crimes that you mentioned previously is true Islam and they are right?? I am not telling them they are wrong, God is.
QUOTE: "Do you honestly think this "But Mommy, Johnnie does it toooo..." argument is effective? I find it one of the most infantile "arguments" that Muslims use. Wrong is wrong, Johnnie, no matter how many other children do it"
ANSWER: Who is saying they are right the Quran or the Sunnah?? Islam does not accept the killing of innocent people.
QUOTE: "OK, are you ready to start discussing history then? I think you'll find it an almost unending saga of conquest and slavery"
ANSWER: Yes, ready
QUOTE: "I'm saying that I can go out my front door wearing whatever I please, and I will not suffer any consequence for doing so. That is because I do not live in a Muslim country, where I would not have that freedom. Do you disagree?"
ANSWER: Exactly and you choose to do so, hence if people are not happy with the laws of a country they are not obliged to stay and conform to those rulings.Â
QUOTE: "Â Oh, I see, the dress. Well, it's true, Islam oppresses both sexes, but being a patriarchal, sexist religion, of course women always get the worst of it"
ANSWER: You seem to think Muslim women have a problem dressing like this, a true Muslim that understands and submits herself to the will of God, loves covering up, loves obeying her Lord and loves dressing like this, just as people in the West have no problem with dressing in bikinis at the beach and going sun baking, Muslims have no problem being covered, so why do you have a problem with this??
QUOTE: "And why exactly are women not as suitable for these positions?Â
Maybe you should ask the CEOs of IBM, PepsiCo, WellPoint, Kraft Foods, and many more...all of them women. Needless to say none of them are Muslim."
ANSWER: We are talking about a women being the ruler of a country, not being a successful business women something Islam is not opposed to if it is done in an Islamic way.
QUOTE: "That's what I'm doing. Read back through the thread and see how much evidence I have provided for everything I have said"
ANSWER: Read back and see how much evidence I have provided in return, your evidences are crimes of others not evidence that Islam accepts such things.
QUOTE: "Do you disagree with any of them?"
ANSWER: Your joking right?
QUOTE: "Now I realize that you have a new, innovative interpretaton of Islam, unique to you, that is not followed by most Muslims, and you are certainly entitled to it. You are not entitled to simply declare that it is the one True Islam, and all the other Muslims are wrong.Â
I encourage you, however, to tell them that, in hopes it will reduce these kinds of atrocities in future. That is, if you dare.Â
ANSWER: Hold on a minute you said there was fatwas against them, who were you referring to? Were you not talking about the innocent Belgians that were killed?
So you want me to agree that the crimes that you mentioned previously is true Islam and they are right?? I am not telling them they are wrong, God is.
QUOTE: "Do you honestly think this "But Mommy, Johnnie does it toooo..." argument is effective? I find it one of the most infantile "arguments" that Muslims use. Wrong is wrong, Johnnie, no matter how many other children do it"
ANSWER: Who is saying they are right the Quran or the Sunnah?? Islam does not accept the killing of innocent people.
QUOTE: "OK, are you ready to start discussing history then? I think you'll find it an almost unending saga of conquest and slavery"
ANSWER: Yes, ready
QUOTE: "I'm saying that I can go out my front door wearing whatever I please, and I will not suffer any consequence for doing so. That is because I do not live in a Muslim country, where I would not have that freedom. Do you disagree?"
ANSWER: Exactly and you choose to do so, hence if people are not happy with the laws of a country they are not obliged to stay and conform to those rulings.Â
QUOTE: "Â Oh, I see, the dress. Well, it's true, Islam oppresses both sexes, but being a patriarchal, sexist religion, of course women always get the worst of it"
ANSWER: You seem to think Muslim women have a problem dressing like this, a true Muslim that understands and submits herself to the will of God, loves covering up, loves obeying her Lord and loves dressing like this, just as people in the West have no problem with dressing in bikinis at the beach and going sun baking, Muslims have no problem being covered, so why do you have a problem with this??
QUOTE: "And why exactly are women not as suitable for these positions?Â
Maybe you should ask the CEOs of IBM, PepsiCo, WellPoint, Kraft Foods, and many more...all of them women. Needless to say none of them are Muslim."
ANSWER: We are talking about a women being the ruler of a country, not being a successful business women something Islam is not opposed to if it is done in an Islamic way.
Post #637
@ Autodidact
QUOTE: "That's hilarious. It makes no sense at all. That's really cute. From two wests and two easts, which there aren't, by the way, no matter how round the earth is, you get that the earth is round? Wow, that's really creative."
ANSWER: Your comments are expected.
QUOTE: "You do realize that the word "earth" does not appear in that sentence, right? That's so desperate.Â
Why can't Muslims scholars just admit the obvious? Muhammad thought the earth was flat, like a carpet. It isn't.Â
I suppose using this style of exegesis I could show that Winnie the Pooh is perfect, beautiful, and free of contradictions. You just make it mean whatever you want it to. In that case, why bother with it at all?"
ANSWER: You do realize that the verse your referring to has nothing to do with the earth being flat right?
QUOTE: "That's hilarious. It makes no sense at all. That's really cute. From two wests and two easts, which there aren't, by the way, no matter how round the earth is, you get that the earth is round? Wow, that's really creative."
ANSWER: Your comments are expected.
QUOTE: "You do realize that the word "earth" does not appear in that sentence, right? That's so desperate.Â
Why can't Muslims scholars just admit the obvious? Muhammad thought the earth was flat, like a carpet. It isn't.Â
I suppose using this style of exegesis I could show that Winnie the Pooh is perfect, beautiful, and free of contradictions. You just make it mean whatever you want it to. In that case, why bother with it at all?"
ANSWER: You do realize that the verse your referring to has nothing to do with the earth being flat right?
Post #638
@ Autodidact
QUOTE: "What question? I can't believe how evasive you are. It's downright rude, and makes it obvious that you don't want to deal with this issue"
ANSWER: Are the prisoners of war in Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo Bay owned??
QUOTE: "Changing the topic?! That's a good one. This is the same simple question I've been asking for 5 pages, and yes, you have answered it, giving contradictory and confusing answers. So, just to clear up any confusion, yes or not, is slavery Islamic?"
ANSWER: Slavery according to the Islamic understanding is permissible.
QUOTE: "What question? I can't believe how evasive you are. It's downright rude, and makes it obvious that you don't want to deal with this issue"
ANSWER: Are the prisoners of war in Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo Bay owned??
QUOTE: "Changing the topic?! That's a good one. This is the same simple question I've been asking for 5 pages, and yes, you have answered it, giving contradictory and confusing answers. So, just to clear up any confusion, yes or not, is slavery Islamic?"
ANSWER: Slavery according to the Islamic understanding is permissible.
Post #639
@ Autodidact
QUOTE: "Look at your answers. I asked you twice. The first time you said yes, the second time you said no. Any wonder why I'm confused?Â
Is it slavery under the definition from wiki that I provided, where one person owns another, can sell that person or give him away, and can make him work?"
ANSWER: They both say yes, answer my question above first. Are the prisoners of war in Afghanistan not owned? Can they not be given to other countries or sent to other detention centers and can they not do as they please with them and make them work??
QUOTE: "The slavery I am thinking of is the definition of the word "slavery." If we can't use the common definitions of words, the conversation becomes nonsensical.Â
I am not asking you about the details, rules, or conditions of Islamic slavery. I am asking you a simple yes or no question, which you are going to great lengths to avoid. That of course is more telling than if you had answered it. Using the common definition of the word "slavery," in which one person owns another as property, does Islam allow that?"
ANSWER: Yes they are considered as owned, I wouldn't consider it like treating them like property. Islam obliges the treatment of people like people not like objects.
You seem to think that slaves in Islam are mere possessions having no rights whatsoever. Which is the definition you are referring too, Islam doesn't view them as such.
The Lawgiver enjoined and encouraged the freeing of slaves, and opened many doors to it.Â
The Prophet (peace be upon him) himself took Safiyyah and Juwayriyah and he freed them and married them.
QUOTE: "You are right. As long as they are restrained by secular laws, many Muslims are able to live lawfully.Â
Yes, you are right, and we have a name for those conditions they live in. We call them "Islam." If I lived in them, I'd migrate too."
ANSWER: Just because they live under secular laws does not mean that laws cannot be broken as they are elsewhere in the world, so that means according to your understanding that crimes committed by Muslims are not only bound to Islamic countries but every where in the world, you said "wherever you find Muslims you find this" (crimes).
Its called the conditions of war.Â
QUOTE: "Look at your answers. I asked you twice. The first time you said yes, the second time you said no. Any wonder why I'm confused?Â
Is it slavery under the definition from wiki that I provided, where one person owns another, can sell that person or give him away, and can make him work?"
ANSWER: They both say yes, answer my question above first. Are the prisoners of war in Afghanistan not owned? Can they not be given to other countries or sent to other detention centers and can they not do as they please with them and make them work??
QUOTE: "The slavery I am thinking of is the definition of the word "slavery." If we can't use the common definitions of words, the conversation becomes nonsensical.Â
I am not asking you about the details, rules, or conditions of Islamic slavery. I am asking you a simple yes or no question, which you are going to great lengths to avoid. That of course is more telling than if you had answered it. Using the common definition of the word "slavery," in which one person owns another as property, does Islam allow that?"
ANSWER: Yes they are considered as owned, I wouldn't consider it like treating them like property. Islam obliges the treatment of people like people not like objects.
You seem to think that slaves in Islam are mere possessions having no rights whatsoever. Which is the definition you are referring too, Islam doesn't view them as such.
The Lawgiver enjoined and encouraged the freeing of slaves, and opened many doors to it.Â
The Prophet (peace be upon him) himself took Safiyyah and Juwayriyah and he freed them and married them.
QUOTE: "You are right. As long as they are restrained by secular laws, many Muslims are able to live lawfully.Â
Yes, you are right, and we have a name for those conditions they live in. We call them "Islam." If I lived in them, I'd migrate too."
ANSWER: Just because they live under secular laws does not mean that laws cannot be broken as they are elsewhere in the world, so that means according to your understanding that crimes committed by Muslims are not only bound to Islamic countries but every where in the world, you said "wherever you find Muslims you find this" (crimes).
Its called the conditions of war.Â
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A Troubled Man
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Post #640
"Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more strength than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore, the righteous women are devoutly obedient and guard in the husband's absence what Allah would have them to guard. As to those women on whose part you fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance); for Allah is most High and Great (above you all). If you fear a breach between them twain, appoint (two) arbiters, one from his family and the other from hers. If they wish for peace, Allah will cause their reconciliation; for Allah has full knowledge and is acquainted with all things." (Quran: An-Nisaa 34-35)HaLi8993 wrote:
ANSWER: And that's what I'm waiting to see, evidence that Islam condones and encourages wife beating.
