Misconceptions about Islam:

[HaLi8993]

There are many misconceptions that exist within the field of Islam one being the topic of women. Unfortunately due to ignorance and lack of knowledge of some people and the ever growing propaganda and Islamaphobia that exist today, including the ever growing media agenda’s that govern the way people think and act, women are deemed as being unequal to men in Islam.

We are all aware that women and men are not alike so I don’t understand when someone makes the statement that Islam should practice equality, what do you mean by equality??? This word – equality – which many thinkers in both the east and the west advocate in various fields of life is a word which is based on deviation and a lack of understanding, especially when it is attributed to the religion to Islam. One of the things that people misunderstand is when they say that “Islam is the religion of equality�. What they should say is that Islam is the religion of justice.

Here we should note that there are some people who speak of equality instead of justice, and this is a mistake. We should not say equality, because equality implies no differentiation between the two. Because of this unjust call for equality, people start to ask, what is the difference between male and female?’ So they made males and females the same. We are all aware that the Male is not like the female.

God says in the Quran:

“And the male is not like the female�[Quran Aal ‘Imraan 3:36] The male is different from the female in many ways, in his strength, in his body, in his toughness and roughness, whereas women are soft and gentle. Women are like men in some aspects and they differ from them in others. Most of the rulings of Islam apply to men and women equally.

In cases where a distinction is made between the sexes, the Muslim regards that as a mercy from God and a sign of His knowledge of His creation, but the arrogant people see it as oppression and injustice, so he stubbornly insists on claiming that men and women are the same. So let him tell us how a man can carry a foetus and breastfeed it? He stubbornly ignores the weakness of women and how they bleed during their monthly period, and he stubbornly refuses to accept reality.

But the Muslim is still at peace with his faith, surrendering to the command of God. “Should not He who has created know? And He is the Most Kind and Courteous (to His slaves), All Aware (of everything)� [Quran al-Mulk 67:14 ]

[HaLi8993]

@ Herictic

QUOTE: "Perhaps I am not explaining myself corretly. Or you are just ignoring what I am stating. 

I have shown you numerous verses that state the earth is a like a carpet. This would imply a flat earth. 

ANSWER: This is the thing the verse isn't talking about the earth being flat, I don't see why you would come to this conclusion this is not what the verse is implying, as stated previously. 

QUOTE: "There does not exist one verse in the Quran which states the earth is round. Nothing. it mentions nowhere that the earth is egg shaped as you claim. If there is, please present it. 

Once again you are taking scripture from the Quran and adding things that are not there"

ANSWER: The verse in question is Quran -79:30, we are looking at the meaning of the word "dahaha"

In Arabic: 

[079:030]  Waal-arda baAAda thalika "dahaha"
[079:030]  He made the earth egg-shaped.

Therefore the meaning of the word "dahaha" is
too extend, to roll, to even out,causing to become egg-shaped or creating, making or producing eggs.

All of these meanings perfectly apply to our planet Earth and the stages that it went through!

I wouldn't have to use a direct word to imply a meaning at all for example If I said to you "that was deafening" you would know from the meaning of the word that it means loud.

Let's have a look at the verses your talking about that is being taken out of context, It is clear from the Quran that earth had gone through several shapings and formations to become livable.

The earth was split in fragments, stretched and flattened to become livable. After land was created from water on earth, God Almighty further spread out the earth and created mountains, roads, rivers, vegetations and animals:

"And We split the earth in fragments,  (The Noble Quran, 80:26)"

"And when the earth is flattened out,  (The Noble Quran, 84:3)"

"And the earth We have spread out (like a carpet); set thereon mountains firm and immovable; and produced therein all kinds of things in due balance.  (The Noble Quran, 15:19)"

"By the Earth and its (wide) expanse:  (The Noble Quran, 91:6)"

"And it is He who spread out the earth, and set thereon mountains standing firm and (flowing) rivers: and fruit of every kind He made in pairs, two and two: He draweth the night as a veil o'er the Day. Behold, verily in these things there are signs for those who consider!  (The Noble Quran, 13:3)" 

"(Yea, the same that) has made for you the earth (like a carpet) spread out, and has made for you roads (and channels) therein, in order that ye may find guidance (on the way);  (The Noble Quran, 43:10)"

"It is God Who has made for you the earth as a resting place, and the sky as a canopy, and has given you shape- and made your shapes beautiful,- and has provided for you Sustenance, of things pure and good;- such is God your Lord. So Glory to God, the Lord of the Worlds!  (The Noble Quran, 40:64)"

"It is He Who has made the earth manageable for you, so traverse ye through its tracts and enjoy of the Sustenance which He furnishes: but unto Him is the Resurrection.  (The Noble Quran, 67:15)"

" 'And God has made the earth for you as a carpet (spread out),  (The Noble Quran, 71:19)"

"And at the Earth, how it is spread out?  (The Noble Quran, 88:20)"

"Have We not made the earth as a wide expanse,  (The Noble Quran, 78:6)"

"And the earth, moreover, hath He extended (to a wide expanse);  (The Noble Quran, 79:30)"

"Who has made the earth your couch, and the heavens your canopy; and sent down rain from the heavens; and brought forth therewith Fruits for your sustenance; then set not up rivals unto God when ye know (the truth).  (The Noble Quran, 2:22)"

"When angels take the souls of those who die in sin against their souls, they say: "In what (plight) Were ye?" They reply: "Weak and oppressed Were we in the earth." They say: "Was not the earth of God spacious enough for you to move yourselves away (From evil)?" Such men will find their abode in Hell,- What an evil refuge! -  (The Noble Quran, 4:97)"

"And the earth- We have spread it out, and set thereon mountains standing firm, and produced therein every kind of beautiful growth (in pairs)-  (The Noble Quran, 50:7)"

"It is He Who has spread out the earth for (His) creatures:   (The Noble Quran, 55:10)"

"He created the heavens without any pillars that ye can see; He set on the earth mountains standing firm, lest it should shake with you; and He scattered through it beasts of all kinds. We send down rain from the sky, and produce on the earth every kind of noble creature, in pairs.  (The Noble Quran, 31:10)"

"And God has created every animal from water: of them there are some that creep on their bellies; some that walk on two legs; and some that walk on four. God creates what He wills for verily God has power over all things.   (The Noble Quran, 24:45)"

"He Who has, made for you the earth like a carpet spread out; has enabled you to go about therein by roads (and channels); and has sent down water from the sky." With it have We produced diverse pairs of plants each separate from the others.  (The Noble Quran, 20:53)"

"And He has set up on the earth mountains standing firm, lest it should shake with you; and rivers and roads; that ye may guide yourselves;  (The Noble Quran, 16:15)"

"And We have set on the earth mountains standing firm, lest it should shake with them, and We have made therein broad highways (between mountains) for them to pass through: that they may receive Guidance.  (The Noble Quran, 21:31)"

QUOTE: "The claim is that the Quran is refering to two bodies of water, each meeting but not mixing due to their different compositions. 

Here are the two verses. 

He has set free the two seas meeting together. There is a barrier between them. They do not transgress. (Quran, 55:19-20) 

He is the one who has set free the two kinds of water, one sweet and palatable, and the other salty and bitter. And He has made between them a barrier and a forbidding partition. (Quran, 25:53) 

Neither states anything about the waters actually touching. All it states is that there is a barrier between them. 

Most likely its refering to land. If that is the case, this is common sense. Nothing miraculous about it. Humans knew the seas were salty and the inland springs and lakes were not. 

If its refering to the different density and/or salinity, again, the Quran is wrong. They do mix. So either the scripture is refering to land, which is not a miracle or the Quran is wrong. Pick one."

ANSWER: You are choosing to prove your point that it was "common sense" if the meaning meant here was land however you are ignoring the other meaning that was said that the barrier is not visible to the human eye. We cannot simply say "It was most likely referring to land" And ignore the other meaning. As science now has proved that they are both correct.

There is a slanted unseen water barrier between the seas through which water from one sea passes to the other. But when the water from one sea enters the other sea, it loses its distinctive characteristic and becomes homogenized with the other water. In a way this barrier serves as a transitional homogenizing area for the two waters.

I don't understand what you mean when you say  they mix?? How do they mix??

QUOTE: "As for the Greeks.... 

"This is rendered more remarkable by springs of fresh water bubbling out as if from pipes on the sea shore. In fact, the nature of water also is not deficient in marvels. Patches of fresh water float on the surface of the sea, being doubtless lighter. Consequently, also sea water being of a heavier nature, gives more support to objects floating upon it. But some fresh waters too float on the surface of others; cases are the river carried on the surface of Lake Fucino, the Adde on the lake of Como, the Ticino on Maggiore, the Mincio on Garda, the Ollio on Lago d'Iseo, the Rhone on the Lake of Geneva (the last North of the Alps, but all the rest in Italy), after a passing visit that covers many miles, carrying out their own waters only, and no larger quantity than they introduced. This has also been stated in the case of the river Orontes in Syria and many others." 

Pliny, Naturalis Historia, Book II, CVI, 224, as per, H. Rackham (trans.), Pliny: Natural History, (Loeb Classical Library, Harvard University Press, 1967), Vol. I, p.353 

Notice how much more precise and indepth the Greeks are compared to the Quran."

ANSWER: What exactly is it precise about where is there a mention about a barrier between the two seas?? Unless I am wrong this is only talking about water.

QUOTE: "Here is Aristotle again: 

The drinkable, sweet water then, is light and all of it is drawn up: the salt water is heavy and remains behind, but not in its proper place. The place which we see the sea filling is not its place but that of water. It seems to belong to the sea because the weight of the salt water makes it remain there, while the sweet, drinkable water which is light is carried up." 

The Greeks win again. No miracle for the Quran. 

ANSWER: Don't see any mention of a barrier between the two seas?? 

QUOTE: "As for embrology. 

You said: "The Quran: "Verily We created man from a product of wet earth, then placed him as a drop of seed in a safe lodging, then We fashioned the drop a clot (‘alaqa), and of the clot (‘alaqa) We fashioned a lump, and of the lump We fashioned bones, and We clothed the bones (with) meat. Then We produced it as another creation." 

There isnt any blood clot involved in the creation of the fetus. Notice the world "cling" isnt in the translation. Why? Bc the word "cling" is not found in the verse. It was again, only after 1971 did the word "cling" suddenly appear. Find me a translation before 1971 that states otherwise"

ANSWER: Again you don't even need the translation for this one as the meaning of the word explains it:

The linguistic definition of ′alaq علق (singular 'alaqah علقة) is "leech", "medicinal leech", "coagulated blood", "blood clot", or "the early stage of the embryo"

Alaq is also a derivative of 'alaqa which means "attached and hanging to something." Professor Abdul Haleem mentions that "′alaq can also mean anything that clings: a clot of blood, a leech, even a lump of mud. All these meanings involve the basic idea of clinging or sticking." Alaq represents the essential helplessness of man in the beginning of creation.

(wiki)

This diagram of the primitive cardiovascular system in an embryo during the alaqah stage.  The external appearance of the embryo and its sacs is similar to that of a blood clot, due to the presence of relatively large amounts of blood present in the embryo. (The Developing Human, Moore, 5th ed., p. 65.) 

http://www.google.com.au/search?tbm=isc ... &bih=208&q

The human embryo is indeed a clinging thing-it clings to the inside of the womb via the umbilical cord. 

QUOTE: "Did you look up Galen? His version is IDENTICAL to the one found in the Quran, the exact order given by Mohammed. 

So again, you have yet to present a single amazing find in the Quran. 

You said: Honestly if these things are not proof enough then I don't know what is, there are plenty of books that talk about the scientific discoveries in the Quran, my suggestion is that you do your own research. 

So far, not one iota of proof have you given. In fact, the Greeks in all three instances utterly destroy the Quran is description of scientific events. Heck, the Greeks measured the earth! "

ANSWER: Can you show me where Galen's work is identical to that of God's, found in the Quran. 

Your joking right??, the Greeks measured the earth but they got it wrong didn't they??, I really would like to see the works of these people you are saying match that of the Quran, can you please give me an example of this, thanks.

QUOTE: "Lets move on. Since you insist that miracles are found in the Quran. Find me three. 

Three statements in the Quran that are precise. Now, I dont want you adding to the scripture. Find me verses that are so precise, unamiguous and clear that you do not need to go into sentence after sentence trying to explain what is being said.l. Use only what is stated in the Quran. 

Notice earlier how your explanations take hundreds of words, yet the Quran only mentions a few. The Quran, if miraculous should not need hundreds of words to explain a few. It should be self contained in the verses what it is trying to convey. 

Give me three. Three of your best scientific finds in the Quran. 

Thanks.

ANSWER: You seem to think the Quran is a scientific book lol, I would like to see you find me scientific discoveries without going into detail. 

How can you expect the Quran to use the terminology of today, when some of these things have only been scientifically been proven not long ago, to suggest such a thing to people that had no idea of these things back then would be illogical.

1) He the Almighty also said: "And He has set firm mountains in the earth so it would not shake with you....(The Noble Quran, 16:15)"

2) No indeed! If he does not stop, We will grab him by the forelock, a lying, sinful forelock. (Qur'an, 96:15-16)

3) We made the sky a preserved and protected roof yet still they turn away from Our Signs. (Qur'an, 21:32)

[hERICtic]

This is the thing the verse isn't talking about the earth being flat, I don't see why you would come to this conclusion this is not what the verse is implying, as stated previously. 

So even thought it states the earth is like a bed (which is flat) and thats its spread out like a carpet (which is flat) is not talking about a flat earth? Seriously?

The verse in question is Quran -79:30, we are looking at the meaning of the word "dahaha"

In Arabic: 

[079:030]  Waal-arda baAAda thalika "dahaha"
[079:030]  He made the earth egg-shaped.

Therefore the meaning of the word "dahaha" is
too extend, to roll, to even out,causing to become egg-shaped or creating, making or producing eggs.

The Quran says no such thing. Dahaha means spread out, level out. It does not mean egg shaped. Nor is the earth shaped like an osterich egg.

From a Muslim website: http://en.islamtoday.net/node/667

Heck, use an Arabic dictionary.

And again, a few had already measured out the entire earth a 1000 years before.

Why do you not give any credit to the "miracles" of other cultures and their amazing finds? Instead you take a few verses which barely state anything out of context and claim a miracle.

You are choosing to prove your point that it was "common sense" if the meaning meant here was land however you are ignoring the other meaning that was said that the barrier is not visible to the human eye. We cannot simply say "It was most likely referring to land" And ignore the other meaning. As science now has proved that they are both correct.

There is a slanted unseen water barrier between the seas through which water from one sea passes to the other. But when the water from one sea enters the other sea, it loses its distinctive characteristic and becomes homogenized with the other water. In a way this barrier serves as a transitional homogenizing area for the two waters.

I don't understand what you mean when you say  they mix?? How do they mix??

First, it IS visible to the naked eye. There isnt any barrier per se, its just the salinity, sediments from one water hitting fresh water. In other words, it looks like there is an invisible barrier but there isnt, its the salt/sediment that appears to seperate the two waters.

Second, I already gave you more indepth, precise Greek quotes that they knew about it a 1000 years before the Quran.

Third, if it could not be transgressed as the Quran states, they would not mix. But they do mix. The fresh water becomes more salty, the salt water becomes less salty. They are mixing. It just appears at first, that there is a seperation.

Fourth, you claimed it may be land refered to. If that is the case, there isnt anything miraculous about it. This is easily seen that land seperates the two.

But you are again missing the point. Nowhere in the Quran does it mention anything about the waters touching. All it states is that there is a barrier. So how do you know its even refering to the fresh water meeting the salt water? You dont.

You cannot claim a miracle if you cannot even show evidence that its refering to X.

Most likely its refering to land. It makes perfect sense. Its crystal clear. A barrier seperates two bodies of water. That would be land.

This isnt a miracle no matter how you want to look at it. Pycnocline can be seen, was already known 1000 years before and eventually the waters do mix.



QUOTE: "As for the Greeks.... 

"This is rendered more remarkable by springs of fresh water bubbling out as if from pipes on the sea shore. In fact, the nature of water also is not deficient in marvels. Patches of fresh water float on the surface of the sea, being doubtless lighter. Consequently, also sea water being of a heavier nature, gives more support to objects floating upon it. But some fresh waters too float on the surface of others; cases are the river carried on the surface of Lake Fucino, the Adde on the lake of Como, the Ticino on Maggiore, the Mincio on Garda, the Ollio on Lago d'Iseo, the Rhone on the Lake of Geneva (the last North of the Alps, but all the rest in Italy), after a passing visit that covers many miles, carrying out their own waters only, and no larger quantity than they introduced. This has also been stated in the case of the river Orontes in Syria and many others." 

Pliny, Naturalis Historia, Book II, CVI, 224, as per, H. Rackham (trans.), Pliny: Natural History, (Loeb Classical Library, Harvard University Press, 1967), Vol. I, p.353 

Notice how much more precise and indepth the Greeks are compared to the Quran."

ANSWER: What exactly is it precise about where is there a mention about a barrier between the two seas?? Unless I am wrong this is only talking about water.

Are you serious? The Quran mentions a barrier (thats it, nothing more, very simple) and you choose to believe it refers to pycnocline, or as you said how the seas meet and stay seperate. Aristotle and Pliny both state, quite indepth how the fresh water stays seperate from the salt water. Neither mentions barrier, but its not needed. In fact, its more precise bc technically there really isnt any barrier at all.

The linguistic definition of ′alaq علق (singular 'alaqah علقة) is "leech", "medicinal leech", "coagulated blood", "blood clot", or "the early stage of the embryo"

Alaq is also a derivative of 'alaqa which means "attached and hanging to something." Professor Abdul Haleem mentions that "′alaq can also mean anything that clings: a clot of blood, a leech, even a lump of mud. All these meanings involve the basic idea of clinging or sticking." Alaq represents the essential helplessness of man in the beginning of creation.

I asked a few times, please give me an quote before 1971 that means cling. You cant. Up until science jumped it with absolute evidence, the the translations never used the word cling. Simply because the Quran never states this.

This diagram of the primitive cardiovascular system in an embryo during the alaqah stage.  The external appearance of the embryo and its sacs is similar to that of a blood clot, due to the presence of relatively large amounts of blood present in the embryo. (The Developing Human, Moore, 5th ed., p. 65.) 

In other words, the Quran got it wrong. Its NOT a clot. It may appear to be, but its your claim that the Quran is miraculous. The Quran is wrong. It claims its a clot.

Can you show me where Galen's work is identical to that of God's, found in the Quran.

Look up Galen. The order give by him is the exact order given in the Quran for Embrology. Semen, developing parts, flesh forming joints formed.

1) He the Almighty also said: "And He has set firm mountains in the earth so it would not shake with you....(The Noble Quran, 16:15)"

2) No indeed! If he does not stop, We will grab him by the forelock, a lying, sinful forelock. (Qur'an, 96:15-16)

3) We made the sky a preserved and protected roof yet still they turn away from Our Signs. (Qur'an, 21:32)

Can you please tell me how these are miracles. Thanks.

[A Troubled Man]

ANSWER: Everything I say is either a lie or fabrication according to you. Lol

ANSWER: There is no doubt there are scientific facts in the Quran.

Bingo!

[A Troubled Man]

Unless you show me clear evidence, then these allegations count for nothing.

LOL! The Islamic propagandist is demanding clear evidence.

[A Troubled Man]

ANSWER: The verse in question is Quran -79:30, we are looking at the meaning of the word "dahaha"

In Arabic: 

[079:030]  Waal-arda baAAda thalika "dahaha"
[079:030]  He made the earth egg-shaped.

Therefore the meaning of the word "dahaha" is
too extend, to roll, to even out,causing to become egg-shaped or creating, making or producing eggs.

All of these meanings perfectly apply to our planet Earth and the stages that it went through!

The earth went through no such stages. It did not extend, roll or even out causing it to become egg-shaped. Ridiculous.

The earth was split in fragments, stretched and flattened to become livable. After land was created from water on earth, God Almighty further spread out the earth and created mountains, roads, rivers, vegetations and animals:

There is no evidence to suggest the earth was split in fragments, stretched and flattened. The Quran is obviously wrong here.

"And when the earth is flattened out,  (The Noble Quran, 84:3)"

The earth is not flat. The Quran is obviously wrong here.

"And the earth We have spread out (like a carpet); set thereon mountains firm and immovable; and produced therein all kinds of things in due balance.  (The Noble Quran, 15:19)"

Mountains are no firm and immovable as they constantly move and form due to plate tectonics. The Quran is obviously wrong here.

"And it is He who spread out the earth, and set thereon mountains standing firm and (flowing) rivers: and fruit of every kind He made in pairs, two and two:

The earth does not show it was created as it is today. Fruit does not show it was created as it is today. The Quran is obviously wrong here.

"He created the heavens without any pillars that ye can see; He set on the earth mountains standing firm, lest it should shake with you

Mountains do not prevent earth quakes. The Quran is obviously wrong here.

"And God has created every animal from water: of them there are some that creep on their bellies; some that walk on two legs; and some that walk on four.

There is no evidence gods created animals. The Quran is obviously wrong here.

QUOTE: "The claim is that the Quran is refering to two bodies of water, each meeting but not mixing due to their different compositions. 

Here are the two verses. 

He has set free the two seas meeting together. There is a barrier between them. They do not transgress. (Quran, 55:19-20) 

Seas are made up of salt water. The Quran is obviously wrong here.

He is the one who has set free the two kinds of water, one sweet and palatable, and the other salty and bitter. And He has made between them a barrier and a forbidding partition. (Quran, 25:53) 

There are no barriers between fresh and salt water bodies of water. If that were the case, how would Salmon spawn? The Quran is obviously wrong here.

ANSWER: You are choosing to prove your point that it was "common sense" if the meaning meant here was land however you are ignoring the other meaning that was said that the barrier is not visible to the human eye. We cannot simply say "It was most likely referring to land" And ignore the other meaning. As science now has proved that they are both correct.

Science has not found such barriers. The Quran is obviously wrong here.

ANSWER: Can you show me where Galen's work is identical to that of God's, found in the Quran. 

"Galen's insistence on a rational systematic approach to medicine set the template for Islamic medicine, which rapidly spread throughout the Arab Empire.

One of the Arabic translations, ‘Kitab ila Aglooqan fi Shifa al Amraz’, which is extant in the Library of Ibn Sina Academy of Medieval Medicine & Sciences, is regarded as a masterpiece of Galen's literary works."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galen

[Autodidact]

[quote

]
@ Autodidact

QUOTE: "Did someone put you in charge of deciding what the qu'ran means? 

As I have now said around five times, THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A NON-VIOLENT BEATING. Beating, by definition, is violent. 

There are two choices: 
(1) The qu'ran says to beat your wife. 
(2) The qu'ran does not mean what it says. 
There are no other choices. 

ANSWER: Nope, wrong again!

Of course there isn't considering the fact that we are not talking about a violent beating to begin with.

The way I see it there are two choices:

1) You deny the truth by rejecting the intended meaning of the word.
2) you accept what I say taking into account all the evidence I have provided and move on. 

HaLi, words mean what they mean. To beat (a person) means "to strike violently or forcefully and repeatedly." That is simply what the word means. If you "reject the intended meaning" then you are saying that the qu'ran does not mean what it says, which, if you think about it, causes you worse problems.

I really cannot have a coherent conversation with someone who says, "The word "beat" does not mean "beat," and the word "slave" does not mean "slave." If words don't mean themselves, coherent discussion becomes impossible.

QUOTE: "That's odd. Because God's law says for husbands to beat their wives"

ANSWER: Wrong Again!

 So just to follow your argument, it is that when the qu'ran says "beat your wife," it doesn't mean "beat your wife?" Really?

QUOTE: "So you're saying that all the translators are wrong? Why, are they evil or stupid? Or is the qu'ran impossible to translate correctly?"

ANSWER: Not at all, they are not evil or stupid, not sure if it's impossible but it doesn't give it it's due meaning.

Well which is it? Are they bad translators, or is the qu'ran impossible to translate?

QUOTE: "Yes, well as we have established, it is clearly contradictory"

ANSWER: Not at all

. Well, if you say that words mean the opposite of themselves then no, it's not.

QUOTE: "As I have said, if you're reduced to the point where you have to argue that "beat" doesn't mean "beat" and "slave" doesn't mean "slave," you're in Wonderland, where words mean anything you like. You're now in nonsense-land, and have lost any sense of anything."

ANSWER: If your reduced to argue the meaning about what beat and slave mean in Islam all this time, then I could say the same thing.

Call me crazy, I think that "beat" means "beat," and "slave" means "slave."

No they don't mean anything we like, words have meanings like every other word, but you fail to acknowledge the context of the word.

Ah, the context. O.K., what is your point about context? Does the context magically make the word mean its opposite? Please provide as much context as you need and show exactly how the context causes the word to mean the opposite of itself, so that "beat" means "don't beat," and "own slaves" means "don't own slaves."

[HaLi8993]

@ Herictic

QUOTE: "So even thought it states the earth is like a bed (which is flat) and thats its spread out like a carpet (which is flat) is not talking about a flat earth? Seriously?

ANSWER: Isn't the earth like a bed which is flat spread out on our level? 

QUOTE: "The Quran says no such thing. Dahaha means spread out, level out. It does not mean egg shaped. Nor is the earth shaped like an osterich egg. 

From a Muslim website: http://en.islamtoday.net/node/667 

Heck, use an Arabic dictionary. 

And again, a few had already measured out the entire earth a 1000 years before. 

Why do you not give any credit to the "miracles" of other cultures and their amazing finds? Instead you take a few verses which barely state anything out of context and claim a miracle"

ANSWER: Yes it does mean spread out, leveled  out etc, however according to some knowledgable people it means egg shaped, so as Muslims we respect there views. And do not make a huge issue out of this.

Measuring out the earth does not mean they believed it was round.

Miracles are only ones that have been sent by God, and confirmed by Him, an ordinary person has no miracles. What finds are you referring too? I never claimed this verse was a miracle, I gave you two opinions regarding this matter, one being the meaning of the verse being egg shaped, if we were to discuss the other opinion of the person in which you posted the link for, then we can conclude that the verse was not even intended in talking about whether the earth was round or flat, but rather that God smoothed the earth to make it livable, which I have also proven.

QUOTE: "First, it IS visible to the naked eye. There isnt any barrier per se, its just the salinity, sediments from one water hitting fresh water. In other words, it looks like there is an invisible barrier but there isnt, its the salt/sediment that appears to seperate the two waters. 

Second, I already gave you more indepth, precise Greek quotes that they knew about it a 1000 years before the Quran. 

Third, if it could not be transgressed as the Quran states, they would not mix. But they do mix. The fresh water becomes more salty, the salt water becomes less salty. They are mixing. It just appears at first, that there is a seperation. 

Fourth, you claimed it may be land refered to. If that is the case, there isnt anything miraculous about it. This is easily seen that land seperates the two. 

But you are again missing the point. Nowhere in the Quran does it mention anything about the waters touching. All it states is that there is a barrier. So how do you know its even refering to the fresh water meeting the salt water? You dont. 

You cannot claim a miracle if you cannot even show evidence that its refering to X. 

Most likely its refering to land. It makes perfect sense. Its crystal clear. A barrier seperates two bodies of water. That would be land. 

This isnt a miracle no matter how you want to look at it. Pycnocline can be seen, was already known 1000 years before and eventually the waters do mix"

ANSWER: How is it visible to the naked eye?? They meet but do not intermix this is due to the physical force called "surface tension," the waters of neighbouring seas do not mix. More importantly how would a Prophet (peace be upon him) know about surface tension 1400 years ago.

Can you point out to me where the Greeks are talking about a barrier.

How do they mix??, this barrier prevents the mixing of the fresh water with the salty water even though the two waters meet at the mouths of rivers. 

Yes it may be land, this would be clear however there was another interpretation that cannot be ignored.

It is a virtual barrier resulting from each type of water pushing against the other so that they do not get mixed, because of the relative difference in density due to the different components of salt water and fresh water. So I don't understand why the Quran would need to mention it touches?

You want to believe it was land, to justify your claim lol.

Again I haven't seen any evidence so far talking about the barrier under the sea.

QUOTE: As for the Greeks....  

"This is rendered more remarkable by springs of fresh water bubbling out as if from pipes on the sea shore. In fact, the nature of water also is not deficient in marvels. Patches of fresh water float on the surface of the sea, being doubtless lighter. Consequently, also sea water being of a heavier nature, gives more support to objects floating upon it. But some fresh waters too float on the surface of others; cases are the river carried on the surface of Lake Fucino, the Adde on the lake of Como, the Ticino on Maggiore, the Mincio on Garda, the Ollio on Lago d'Iseo, the Rhone on the Lake of Geneva (the last North of the Alps, but all the rest in Italy), after a passing visit that covers many miles, carrying out their own waters only, and no larger quantity than they introduced. This has also been stated in the case of the river Orontes in Syria and many others."  

Pliny, Naturalis Historia, Book II, CVI, 224, as per, H. Rackham (trans.), Pliny: Natural History, (Loeb Classical Library, Harvard University Press, 1967), Vol. I, p.353  

Notice how much more precise and indepth the Greeks are compared to the Quran." 

ANSWER: Cant see any mention of a  barrier under the sea, as mentioned previously the Quran is not a book of science.

QUOTE: "Are you serious? The Quran mentions a barrier (thats it, nothing more, very simple) and you choose to believe it refers to pycnocline, or as you said how the seas meet and stay seperate. Aristotle and Pliny both state, quite indepth how the fresh water stays seperate from the salt water. Neither mentions barrier, but its not needed. In fact, its more precise bc technically there really isnt any barrier at all"

ANSWER: Can you show me any of these things, why wouldn't it be needed to mention the word barrier when this is what we are talking about (the barrier and surface tension) It is interesting that, during a period when there was little knowledge of physics, and of surface tension, or oceanography this could have been known, I could easily say that Aristotle and Pliny is talking about another concept relating to water staying seperate from the salt water. Unless you give me some evidence that is dealing with these issues then you do not have anything to stand on.

QUOTE: "I asked a few times, please give me an quote before 1971 that means cling. You cant. Up until science jumped it with absolute evidence, the the translations never used the word cling. Simply because the Quran never states this"

ANSWER: The word itself means cling. Lol. The tafsir (meaning of the verse) of al-Jalalayn translates this verse as:

"Created man from a clinging substance"

This was clearly written before 1971 

QUOTE: "In other words, the Quran got it wrong. Its NOT a clot. It may appear to be, but its your claim that the Quran is miraculous. The Quran is wrong. It claims its a clot"

ANSWER: How did it get it wrong? Do you want to explain to me what you mean.

QUOTE: "Look up Galen. The order give by him is the exact order given in the Quran for Embrology. Semen, developing parts, flesh forming joints formed."

ANSWER: Can you post this for us, thanks. No doubt Galen knew about embryology but what I want to see is what he wrote being identical to that of the Quran, can you give me an example.

QUOTE: "Can you please tell me how these are miracles. Thanks"

ANSWER: In Brief:

 1) He the Almighty also said: "And He has set firm mountains in the earth so it would not shake with you....(The Noble Quran, 16:15)" 

Mountains act like nails, and to a large extent, prevent movement in the Earth's surface.

2) No indeed! If he does not stop, We will grab him by the forelock, a lying, sinful forelock. (Qur'an, 96:15-16) 

According to research the prefrontal area, which is responsible for the management of particular functions of the brain, lies in the frontal part of the skull, which is responsible for telling lies and the truth.

3) We made the sky a preserved and protected roof yet still they turn away from Our Signs. (Qur'an, 21:32)

The atmosphere protects the earth.

[HaLi8993]

@ A Troubles Man

QUOTE: "Bingo!"

ANSWER: So your a fan of Bingo? Lol

[HaLi8993]

@ A Troubled Man

QUOTE: "LOL! The Islamic propagandist is demanding clear evidence"

ANSWER: Yes, have you any sources? 

[HaLi8993]

@ A Troubled Man

QUOTE: "The earth went through no such stages. It did not extend, roll or even out causing it to become egg-shaped. Ridiculous

ANSWER: Yes, the mind of an Evolutionist cannot comprehend such things. Because he does not believe in a Creator

QUOTE: "There is no evidence to suggest the earth was split in fragments, stretched and flattened. The Quran is obviously wrong here.

ANSWER: You are saying God is wrong, this is surprising because you don't believe in a God. So of course according to your logic it wasn't.  

QUOTE: "The earth is not flat. The Quran is obviously wrong here"

ANSWER: This verse is not referring to the earth being flat.

QUOTE: "Mountains are no firm and immovable as they constantly move and form due to plate tectonics. The Quran is obviously wrong here."

ANSWER: Plate tectonics has got nothing to do with mountains not being firm, the Mountains are moving along with the plate.

QUOTE: "The earth does not show it was created as it is today. Fruit does not show it was created as it is today. The Quran is obviously wrong here"

ANSWER: Thanks for sharing your thoughts with us.

QUOTE: "Mountains do not prevent earth quakes. The Quran is obviously wrong here"

ANSWER: Who said anything about earthquakes??

QUOTE: "There is no evidence gods created animals. The Quran is obviously wrong here"

ANSWER: Who did??

QUOTE: "Seas are made up of salt water. The Quran is obviously wrong here"

ANSWER: Thanks for pointing that out.

QUOTE: There are no barriers between fresh and salt water bodies of water. If that were the case, how would Salmon spawn? The Quran is obviously wrong here. 

ANSWER: They migrate up the river lol

QUOTE: "Science has not found such barriers. The Quran is obviously wrong here."

ANSWER: According to this link it does

http://www.calmreflection.blogspot.com.au/

QUOTE: ""Galen's insistence on a rational systematic approach to medicine set the template for Islamic medicine, which rapidly spread throughout the Arab Empire. 

One of the Arabic translations, ‘Kitab ila Aglooqan fi Shifa al Amraz’, which is extant in the Library of Ibn Sina Academy of Medieval Medicine & Sciences, is regarded as a masterpiece of Galen's literary works." 

ANSWER: Thats nice, there is only one problem with this we are talking about the Quran.