Allah made it look like Jesus died, but he let someone die in Jesus' place to save Jesus according to the Quran. Isn't that a form of substitutionary death? This is something some Muslims tell me God doesn't do; so, I am confused about this.
The Quran states that the unbelievers plot and scheme with deception but Allah is the "best of deceivers" Some English translations state "the best of planners," in context, however, Allah does best what the unbelievers were doing which was deceiving; so, is Allah to blame for starting Christianity or did he know his deception would cause the birth of a religion that Islam could not comprehend or overcome? For instance, Christianity, IMO, has always been bigger, better and stronger than Islam and always will be!
Did Allah start Christianty?
Moderator: Moderators
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Burninglight
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Burninglight
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Post #461
HaLi8993 wrote: @ Burninglight
QUOTE: "Only Catholics worshipped Mary but even they never considered her to be God or part of the trinity. No one has ever in Christendom considered her part of the trinity. They considered her to be the mother of Jesus who is all that God is but not all there is to God.Â
Finally, I never said God was ignorant. I said the Allah of Islam is. You are right he never said trinity was father, mother & child, but he implies it. FYI, that has never been a trinity doctrine let alone a main one. You have a grave misconception just like Muhammad did and Allah did. Only the father, Son and Holy Spirit make up all and only what is called trinity. Allah never spoke against trinity as Christians understand that to be, because Allah didn't understand that no one considered Mary to be God along with Jesus. This is a misconception and discrepancy in Islam that you must face one day soon!Â
Any intelligent person can infer that Allah meant the father, mother and son as the only trinity and not one of two major trinity doctrines. You are obviously now talking off the top of your head. There has never been two main trinity doctrines. You are also obviously trying to redeem the discrepancy in the Quran, lol. If Allah was right that Christians considered Mary to be God and part of the trinity, then, they wouldn't be called trinity, because that makes four. Islam's Allah and Muhammad blew it concerning Christian belief and the trinity.
This topic will still surface, because contrary to what you said, you still didn't satisfy the discrepancy of error in the Quran"This is not an answer. No one has authorized the worship of Mary. It is not Scriptural. It is not part of the Bible or true Christianity. Allah and Muhammad didn't know that nor do you. I can infer this by what Allah says. It doesn't even take a scholar to know this. Why are you being so obtuse?HaLi8993 wrote:
ANSWER: Who has authorized the worship of Mary?? God certainly hasn't. Any act of worship performed to other than God is associating partners onto him. Mary is worshipped and looked at as a God, as people put their salvation into her, only God is able to do this. Mary was considered part of the trinity to early trinity doctrines as they believed that trinity was indeed the father, mother and son. This belief, is still widely accepted among Roman Catholics but under a different name today.  .
No, I am saying Islam's Allah, not my God, doesn't know, because he does imply the trinity is Mary, Jesus and Himself. That is the only inference that could logically be made. You are incorrect to say that Christians had Mary as part of a trinity. If they did, I would say they are ascribing partners unto God. The only one I know that has done that was Muhammad. He prophesied of Allah's three daughters. Deny it all you want it is a historic fact that can be proved, but what you said about Mary being part of the trinity cannot be proved not even Catholics believe that nonsense. You appear to be grasping at straws.HaLi8993 wrote: Your saying God is ignorant because Islam is the words of God, no where in the Quran does it mention who the trinity concept is referring to because it encompasses all forms pluralistic beliefs of God. Early Christians explicitly identified the Holy Spirit as “Mother.� Furthermore in the Gospel of the Hebrews Jesus (peace be upon him) referred to the Holy Spirit as his Mother. The idea of a Father-Mother-Son Trinity was popular during the 5th century..
Allah only spoke of one trinity prove he spoke of other trinities, Oh I stand correct I forgot about the three goddess Muhammad spoke of whose intercession is hoped for. About Christians he said trinity not trinities!HaLi8993 wrote:
Now how would you know what God is implying lol, this is the problem you seem to think it is ok to add things to the belief of others without any proof. Allah speaks of all forms of trinity, He makes it very clear that the trinity concept of any kind is not accepted because He is One not three in One..
This doesn't make any sense.HaLi8993 wrote:
To suggest that God was implying this trinity concept you are referring to would not make sense because people believe in different trinitarian concepts not to mention those that do not call themselves Christians, as I have shared with you, so if it was indeed what you are suggesting that would mean God would allow one trinity concept and not another which would be contradictory because it still has a pluralistic foundation consisting of more than One regardless what it's referring too. .
It would be four Mary, Jesus, Allah, and the Holy SpiritHaLi8993 wrote:
How does it make it four when early Christians believed in three. I think you need to do a little homework of your own as it seems you don't really know what your ancestors believed in lol.
Post #462
@ Burninglight
QUOTE: "This is not an answer. No one has authorized the worship of Mary. It is not Scriptural. It is not part of the Bible or true Christianity. Allah and Muhammad didn't know that nor do you. I can infer this by what Allah says. It doesn't even take a scholar to know this. Why are you being so obtuse?"
ANSWER: Â Of course it's an answer, well seeing as you have acknowledged that it happens then we can easily say that God was right in warning against this. God is All-Knowing of everything, He knows everything that will happen before it even happens, you are undermining the ability of God. If you believe it is obvious then what exactly do you have a problem with, I'm obtuse?? Your joking right the one that asks the same questions to every Muslim he speaks with is calling me obtuse. Burninglight I have said this before and I will say it again your one character.
QUOTE: "No, I am saying Islam's Allah, not my God, doesn't know, because he does imply the trinity is Mary, Jesus and Himself. That is the only inference that could logically be made. You are incorrect to say that Christians had Mary as part of a trinity. If they did, I would say they are ascribing partners unto God. The only one I know that has done that was Muhammad. He prophesied of Allah's three daughters. Deny it all you want it is a historic fact that can be proved, but what you said about Mary being part of the trinity cannot be proved not even Catholics believe that nonsense. You appear to be grasping at straws"
ANSWER: Islam's God is your God, because the God of the Torah and the Gospel is the same God as Islam, even though you don't agree with Islam being the final revelation to come for all of mankind this still doesn't change the fact that there is One God. Â There is no proof of your logic lol, trinity is forbidden period, no but's or if's about it, so why do you still believe in the trinity?? If you believe that having Mary as part of the Trinity is ascribing partners onto God then what is the difference when you substitute Mary with the Holy Spirit. Forward your proof about the three daughters and we shall debate about your understanding on this issue it is not true as I have shown you this already in the past. I would love you to prove it to me, thanksÂ
Here is your proof about Mary.
"The Egyptian threesome of Father, Mother and Son seems to have been the Trinity most favoured by early Christians who sought to fit their theology into a known pattern. They saw the role of Mother in the divine family being played by Sophia, the Divine or Holy Wisdom. The Father, his Word and his Wisdom were described explicitly as a Triad, by a late second century Bishop of Antioch*. But the Church Fathers were not keen on women, so as we shall see (page 229), Sophia lost her place in the divine family. By the fifth century AD her position in the divine threesome had been taken over by the Holy Spirit*. So it was that the Christian Trinity consists of Father, Son (= the Word) and Holy Spirit"
http://www.badnewsaboutchristianity.com ... ctrine.htm
QUOTE: "Allah only spoke of one trinity prove he spoke of other trinities, Oh I stand correct I forgot about the three goddess Muhammad spoke of whose intercession is hoped for. About Christians he said trinity not trinities! "
ANSWER: Any type of Trinity is not accepted, can you show me where in the Quran it says the trinity is referring to the father, son and Holy Spirit?? Â When the Quran mentions Jesus and Mary being worshiped as gods it never mentions the Trinity at all, so the burden of proof is now on you to show us where in the Quran it says anything about what type of trinity it is referring too? I fail to see any evidence for your claims. Why would God need to say "trinities"?
QUOTE: "This doesn't make any sense"
ANSWER: What I'm trying to say is that if the prohibition of trinity is disallowed in Islam, and makes no mention of what the trinity consists of as you are referring to (father, son and holy spirit) then how could it allow other forms of trinitarian beliefs to be allowed if it was specific?
QUOTE: "It would be four Mary, Jesus, Allah, and the Holy Spirit"
ANSWER: This still wouldn't make any sense because Allah means God, Jesus is God according to the Christian scriptures.Â
QUOTE: "This is not an answer. No one has authorized the worship of Mary. It is not Scriptural. It is not part of the Bible or true Christianity. Allah and Muhammad didn't know that nor do you. I can infer this by what Allah says. It doesn't even take a scholar to know this. Why are you being so obtuse?"
ANSWER: Â Of course it's an answer, well seeing as you have acknowledged that it happens then we can easily say that God was right in warning against this. God is All-Knowing of everything, He knows everything that will happen before it even happens, you are undermining the ability of God. If you believe it is obvious then what exactly do you have a problem with, I'm obtuse?? Your joking right the one that asks the same questions to every Muslim he speaks with is calling me obtuse. Burninglight I have said this before and I will say it again your one character.
QUOTE: "No, I am saying Islam's Allah, not my God, doesn't know, because he does imply the trinity is Mary, Jesus and Himself. That is the only inference that could logically be made. You are incorrect to say that Christians had Mary as part of a trinity. If they did, I would say they are ascribing partners unto God. The only one I know that has done that was Muhammad. He prophesied of Allah's three daughters. Deny it all you want it is a historic fact that can be proved, but what you said about Mary being part of the trinity cannot be proved not even Catholics believe that nonsense. You appear to be grasping at straws"
ANSWER: Islam's God is your God, because the God of the Torah and the Gospel is the same God as Islam, even though you don't agree with Islam being the final revelation to come for all of mankind this still doesn't change the fact that there is One God. Â There is no proof of your logic lol, trinity is forbidden period, no but's or if's about it, so why do you still believe in the trinity?? If you believe that having Mary as part of the Trinity is ascribing partners onto God then what is the difference when you substitute Mary with the Holy Spirit. Forward your proof about the three daughters and we shall debate about your understanding on this issue it is not true as I have shown you this already in the past. I would love you to prove it to me, thanksÂ
Here is your proof about Mary.
"The Egyptian threesome of Father, Mother and Son seems to have been the Trinity most favoured by early Christians who sought to fit their theology into a known pattern. They saw the role of Mother in the divine family being played by Sophia, the Divine or Holy Wisdom. The Father, his Word and his Wisdom were described explicitly as a Triad, by a late second century Bishop of Antioch*. But the Church Fathers were not keen on women, so as we shall see (page 229), Sophia lost her place in the divine family. By the fifth century AD her position in the divine threesome had been taken over by the Holy Spirit*. So it was that the Christian Trinity consists of Father, Son (= the Word) and Holy Spirit"
http://www.badnewsaboutchristianity.com ... ctrine.htm
QUOTE: "Allah only spoke of one trinity prove he spoke of other trinities, Oh I stand correct I forgot about the three goddess Muhammad spoke of whose intercession is hoped for. About Christians he said trinity not trinities! "
ANSWER: Any type of Trinity is not accepted, can you show me where in the Quran it says the trinity is referring to the father, son and Holy Spirit?? Â When the Quran mentions Jesus and Mary being worshiped as gods it never mentions the Trinity at all, so the burden of proof is now on you to show us where in the Quran it says anything about what type of trinity it is referring too? I fail to see any evidence for your claims. Why would God need to say "trinities"?
QUOTE: "This doesn't make any sense"
ANSWER: What I'm trying to say is that if the prohibition of trinity is disallowed in Islam, and makes no mention of what the trinity consists of as you are referring to (father, son and holy spirit) then how could it allow other forms of trinitarian beliefs to be allowed if it was specific?
QUOTE: "It would be four Mary, Jesus, Allah, and the Holy Spirit"
ANSWER: This still wouldn't make any sense because Allah means God, Jesus is God according to the Christian scriptures.Â
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Burninglight
- Guru
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Post #463
I'll accept being one character for sure. I didn't mean to say you are personally obtuse. I meant your arguments are. The Egyptian trinity is not Christian and the word trinity doesn't exist in the Bible.HaLi8993 wrote: @ Burninglight
QUOTE: "This is not an answer. No one has authorized the worship of Mary. It is not Scriptural. It is not part of the Bible or true Christianity. Allah and Muhammad didn't know that nor do you. I can infer this by what Allah says. It doesn't even take a scholar to know this. Why are you being so obtuse?"
ANSWER: Â Of course it's an answer, well seeing as you have acknowledged that it happens then we can easily say that God was right in warning against this. God is All-Knowing of everything, He knows everything that will happen before it even happens, you are undermining the ability of God. If you believe it is obvious then what exactly do you have a problem with, I'm obtuse?? Your joking right the one that asks the same questions to every Muslim he speaks with is calling me obtuse. Burninglight I have said this before and I will say it again your one character.
QUOTE: "No, I am saying Islam's Allah, not my God, doesn't know, because he does imply the trinity is Mary, Jesus and Himself. That is the only inference that could logically be made. You are incorrect to say that Christians had Mary as part of a trinity. If they did, I would say they are ascribing partners unto God. The only one I know that has done that was Muhammad. He prophesied of Allah's three daughters. Deny it all you want it is a historic fact that can be proved, but what you said about Mary being part of the trinity cannot be proved not even Catholics believe that nonsense. You appear to be grasping at straws"
ANSWER: Islam's God is your God, because the God of the Torah and the Gospel is the same God as Islam, even though you don't agree with Islam being the final revelation to come for all of mankind this still doesn't change the fact that there is One God. Â There is no proof of your logic lol, trinity is forbidden period, no but's or if's about it, so why do you still believe in the trinity?? If you believe that having Mary as part of the Trinity is ascribing partners onto God then what is the difference when you substitute Mary with the Holy Spirit. Forward your proof about the three daughters and we shall debate about your understanding on this issue it is not true as I have shown you this already in the past. I would love you to prove it to me, thanksÂ
Here is your proof about Mary.
"The Egyptian threesome of Father, Mother and Son seems to have been the Trinity most favoured by early Christians who sought to fit their theology into a known pattern. They saw the role of Mother in the divine family being played by Sophia, the Divine or Holy Wisdom. The Father, his Word and his Wisdom were described explicitly as a Triad, by a late second century Bishop of Antioch*. But the Church Fathers were not keen on women, so as we shall see (page 229), Sophia lost her place in the divine family. By the fifth century AD her position in the divine threesome had been taken over by the Holy Spirit*. So it was that the Christian Trinity consists of Father, Son (= the Word) and Holy Spirit"
http://www.badnewsaboutchristianity.com ... ctrine.htm
QUOTE: "Allah only spoke of one trinity prove he spoke of other trinities, Oh I stand correct I forgot about the three goddess Muhammad spoke of whose intercession is hoped for. About Christians he said trinity not trinities! "
ANSWER: Any type of Trinity is not accepted, can you show me where in the Quran it says the trinity is referring to the father, son and Holy Spirit?? Â When the Quran mentions Jesus and Mary being worshiped as gods it never mentions the Trinity at all, so the burden of proof is now on you to show us where in the Quran it says anything about what type of trinity it is referring too? I fail to see any evidence for your claims. Why would God need to say "trinities"?
QUOTE: "This doesn't make any sense"
ANSWER: What I'm trying to say is that if the prohibition of trinity is disallowed in Islam, and makes no mention of what the trinity consists of as you are referring to (father, son and holy spirit) then how could it allow other forms of trinitarian beliefs to be allowed if it was specific?
QUOTE: "It would be four Mary, Jesus, Allah, and the Holy Spirit"
ANSWER: This still wouldn't make any sense because Allah means God, Jesus is God according to the Christian scriptures.Â
The Quran doesn't mention the father, son and Holy Spirit. That is the problem that show Allah's ignorance of the Christians trinity. If he had said the Holy Spirit, I would remain silent.
The difference between Mary and the Holy Spirit is Mary is not God. The Holy Spirit is. God the father is Spirit and those that worship Him must do so in spirit and in truth. Jesus is the truth! God is Spirit. He is Holy; therefore He is the Holy Spirit. Jesus is all that God is, but not all there is to God.
God created Christianity first and as the only way to be saved through Christ. Satan is trying to destroy God's only hope to mankind. It is written. "He that has the son has life; He that doesn't has not life, but the wrath of God abides on him" The son in this case is Jesus Christ.
Allah was not referring to the Egyptian religion or the Indian Hindu religion. He was specifically referring to Christianity. Christianity was the thorn in Muhammad's side and that is what shows in the Quran only Muhammad was ignorant of what Christians believed about the trinity, but with a little research he could have found out.
Muhammad degrades woman. He said the witness of a woman is half that of a man. Islam woman are property of men. We don't see this much in America but we certainly do in the middle east. Jesus said, "you will know them by their fruit."
Post #464
@ Burninglight
QUOTE: "I'll accept being one character for sure. I didn't mean to say you are personally obtuse. I meant your arguments are. The Egyptian trinity is not Christian and the word trinity doesn't exist in the Bible.Â
The Quran doesn't mention the father, son and Holy Spirit. That is the problem that show Allah's ignorance of the Christians trinity. If he had said the Holy Spirit, I would remain silent"
ANSWER: They call themselves Christian, so if the word Trinity doesn't exist why do you believe in such a concept?? If the Quran said father, son and holy spirit then it would not include the father, mother, son concept, hence it would only disallow one trinity deviance and not all. First you claim that Allah didn't know who the third person in the trinity is and now your saying He doesn't know what the concept of Trinity is?? Lol your contradicting yourself Burninglight.
QUOTE: "The difference between Mary and the Holy Spirit is Mary is not God. The Holy Spirit is. God the father is Spirit and those that worship Him must do so in spirit and in truth. Jesus is the truth! God is Spirit. He is Holy; therefore He is the Holy Spirit. Jesus is all that God is, but not all there is to God"
ANSWER: Doesn't matter how you explain a trinity concept, It is very clear that anything remotely connected with a trinity concept is associating partners onto God.
God warns against the worship of 2 things in that verse:
1) Not to worship Jesus (peace be upon him)
Â
andÂ
2) Not to worship Mary (May Allah be pleased with Her).Â
It doesn't say that these two are included in the Christian concept of Trinity (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit). It says not to take them as God, how would one take them as Gods? By praying to them and giving them a higher status then the righteous human beings they were. Catholic Christians with their rosary offer prays to Mary till this day, as if she was God, not a human being, and could answer their prayers. Furthermore Christians worship Jesus as the alleged "son of God" a God/Man.  Moreover the sect that believe the trinity was the Father, Son, and Mary. More to the point how then is the Quran wrong when it clearly says  not to worship Mary as a God, in addition to all today's Christians that worship Jesus (peace be upon him) this is clear blasphemy against God's Oneness.
QUOTE: "God created Christianity first and as the only way to be saved through Christ. Satan is trying to destroy God's only hope to mankind. It is written. "He that has the son has life; He that doesn't has not life, but the wrath of God abides on him" The son in this case is Jesus Christ."
ANSWER: No, God revealed the Gospel, where by its true teachings are lost now, hence the introduction of Christianity began and later developing into this understanding that Jesus (peace be upon him) had died for your sins saving you.Â
John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him.Â
Again if the correct meaning of the word son of God was applied meaning the servant of God there would be no problem with this verse.
QUOTE: "Allah was not referring to the Egyptian religion or the Indian Hindu religion. He was specifically referring to Christianity. Christianity was the thorn in Muhammad's side and that is what shows in the Quran only Muhammad was ignorant of what Christians believed about the trinity, but with a little research he could have found out"
ANSWER: Which verse are you talking about? Lol, again this is coming from your own opinions and speculations there is absolutely no evidence for this claim.
QUOTE: "Muhammad degrades woman. He said the witness of a woman is half that of a man. Islam woman are property of men. We don't see this much in America but we certainly do in the middle east. Jesus said, "you will know them by their fruit."
ANSWER: God mentions the reason why the witness of two women is equal to the testimony of one man. It is because a  woman may forget or get confused, so the other woman can remind her, as He said: (Quran 2:282)
“…And get two witnesses out of your own men. And if there are not two men (available), then a man and two women, such as you agree for witnesses, so that if one of them (two women) errs, the other can remind her…�
This is not to degrade women in any way or to treat them like property, I can give you many examples how women are treated like property in the USA one only needs to open up a magazine to see this. Lol
QUOTE: "I'll accept being one character for sure. I didn't mean to say you are personally obtuse. I meant your arguments are. The Egyptian trinity is not Christian and the word trinity doesn't exist in the Bible.Â
The Quran doesn't mention the father, son and Holy Spirit. That is the problem that show Allah's ignorance of the Christians trinity. If he had said the Holy Spirit, I would remain silent"
ANSWER: They call themselves Christian, so if the word Trinity doesn't exist why do you believe in such a concept?? If the Quran said father, son and holy spirit then it would not include the father, mother, son concept, hence it would only disallow one trinity deviance and not all. First you claim that Allah didn't know who the third person in the trinity is and now your saying He doesn't know what the concept of Trinity is?? Lol your contradicting yourself Burninglight.
QUOTE: "The difference between Mary and the Holy Spirit is Mary is not God. The Holy Spirit is. God the father is Spirit and those that worship Him must do so in spirit and in truth. Jesus is the truth! God is Spirit. He is Holy; therefore He is the Holy Spirit. Jesus is all that God is, but not all there is to God"
ANSWER: Doesn't matter how you explain a trinity concept, It is very clear that anything remotely connected with a trinity concept is associating partners onto God.
God warns against the worship of 2 things in that verse:
1) Not to worship Jesus (peace be upon him)
Â
andÂ
2) Not to worship Mary (May Allah be pleased with Her).Â
It doesn't say that these two are included in the Christian concept of Trinity (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit). It says not to take them as God, how would one take them as Gods? By praying to them and giving them a higher status then the righteous human beings they were. Catholic Christians with their rosary offer prays to Mary till this day, as if she was God, not a human being, and could answer their prayers. Furthermore Christians worship Jesus as the alleged "son of God" a God/Man.  Moreover the sect that believe the trinity was the Father, Son, and Mary. More to the point how then is the Quran wrong when it clearly says  not to worship Mary as a God, in addition to all today's Christians that worship Jesus (peace be upon him) this is clear blasphemy against God's Oneness.
QUOTE: "God created Christianity first and as the only way to be saved through Christ. Satan is trying to destroy God's only hope to mankind. It is written. "He that has the son has life; He that doesn't has not life, but the wrath of God abides on him" The son in this case is Jesus Christ."
ANSWER: No, God revealed the Gospel, where by its true teachings are lost now, hence the introduction of Christianity began and later developing into this understanding that Jesus (peace be upon him) had died for your sins saving you.Â
John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him.Â
Again if the correct meaning of the word son of God was applied meaning the servant of God there would be no problem with this verse.
QUOTE: "Allah was not referring to the Egyptian religion or the Indian Hindu religion. He was specifically referring to Christianity. Christianity was the thorn in Muhammad's side and that is what shows in the Quran only Muhammad was ignorant of what Christians believed about the trinity, but with a little research he could have found out"
ANSWER: Which verse are you talking about? Lol, again this is coming from your own opinions and speculations there is absolutely no evidence for this claim.
QUOTE: "Muhammad degrades woman. He said the witness of a woman is half that of a man. Islam woman are property of men. We don't see this much in America but we certainly do in the middle east. Jesus said, "you will know them by their fruit."
ANSWER: God mentions the reason why the witness of two women is equal to the testimony of one man. It is because a  woman may forget or get confused, so the other woman can remind her, as He said: (Quran 2:282)
“…And get two witnesses out of your own men. And if there are not two men (available), then a man and two women, such as you agree for witnesses, so that if one of them (two women) errs, the other can remind her…�
This is not to degrade women in any way or to treat them like property, I can give you many examples how women are treated like property in the USA one only needs to open up a magazine to see this. Lol
-
Burninglight
- Guru
- Posts: 1202
- Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:40 am
i AM NOT CONTRADICTING MYSELF ; YOUR ARE CONFUSING YOURSELF
Post #465HaLi8993 wrote: @ Burninglight
QUOTE: "I'll accept being one character for sure. I didn't mean to say you are personally obtuse. I meant your arguments are. The Egyptian trinity is not Christian and the word trinity doesn't exist in the Bible.Â
The Quran doesn't mention the father, son and Holy Spirit. That is the problem that show Allah's ignorance of the Christians trinity. If he had said the Holy Spirit, I would remain silent"Because the word trinity is not in the Bible but the concept is! Allah only spoke of one trinity and his misconceptions of it are apparent to all even if you deny it, the truth screams out.HaLi8993 wrote:
ANSWER: They call themselves Christian, so if the word Trinity doesn't exist why do you believe in such a concept?? If the Quran said father, son and holy spirit then it would not include the father, mother, son concept, hence it would only disallow one trinity deviance and not all. First you claim that Allah didn't know who the third person in the trinity is and now your saying He doesn't know what the concept of Trinity is?? Lol your contradicting yourself Burninglight.
QUOTE: "The difference between Mary and the Holy Spirit is Mary is not God. The Holy Spirit is. God the father is Spirit and those that worship Him must do so in spirit and in truth. Jesus is the truth! God is Spirit. He is Holy; therefore He is the Holy Spirit. Jesus is all that God is, but not all there is to God"It matters to Christians like me. The partners with God is an Islamic term. God has no partners. Christians never said God has partners. Muslims say we Christians are guilty of what they do. Look at the second part of your shahadah. That is an association. You must mention Muhammad's name with Allah. The worship of Mary is not Biblical or true Christianity it is Catholic all the way. Allah only had a Catholic understanding of Christianity and not a Biblical one. I know this that is why I stay away from Islam. Jesus never stop anyone one from worshipping Him. Jesus completes the oneness of God, Without Him there is no oneness you speak of accept the onesness of the great deceiver and we all know who that isHaLi8993 wrote:
ANSWER: Doesn't matter how you explain a trinity concept, It is very clear that anything remotely connected with a trinity concept is associating partners onto God. God warns against the worship of 2 things in that verse:
1) Not to worship Jesus (peace be upon him)
and
2) Not to worship Mary (May Allah be pleased with Her).
It doesn't say that these two are included in the Christian concept of Trinity (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit). It says not to take them as God, how would one take them as Gods? By praying to them and giving them a higher status then the righteous human beings they were. Catholic Christians with their rosary offer prays to Mary till this day, as if she was God, not a human being, and could answer their prayers. Furthermore Christians worship Jesus as the alleged "son of God" a God/Man. Moreover the sect that believe the trinity was the Father, Son, and Mary. More to the point how then is the Quran wrong when it clearly says not to worship Mary as a God, in addition to all today's Christians that worship Jesus (peace be upon him) this is clear blasphemy against God's Oneness.
QUOTE: "God created Christianity first and as the only way to be saved through Christ. Satan is trying to destroy God's only hope to mankind. It is written. "He that has the son has life; He that doesn't has not life, but the wrath of God abides on him" The son in this case is Jesus Christ."HaLi8993 wrote:
ANSWER: No, God revealed the Gospel, where by its true teachings are lost now, hence the introduction of Christianity began and later developing into this understanding that Jesus (peace be upon him) had died for your sins saving you.Â
John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him.Â
Again if the correct meaning of the word son of God was applied meaning the servant of God there would be no problem with this verse.
[
QUOTE: "Allah was not referring to the Egyptian religion or the Indian Hindu religion. He was specifically referring to Christianity. Christianity was the thorn in Muhammad's side and that is what shows in the Quran only Muhammad was ignorant of what Christians believed about the trinity, but with a little research he could have found out"History tells you it is true the true concept of the trinity was around before Muhammad was born. Why do you lol?HaLi8993 wrote:
ANSWER: Which verse are you talking about? Lol, again this is coming from your own opinions and speculations there is absolutely no evidence for this claim.
QUOTE: "Muhammad degrades woman. He said the witness of a woman is half that of a man. Islam woman are property of men. We don't see this much in America but we certainly do in the middle east. Jesus said, "you will know them by their fruit."yea, right lolHaLi8993 wrote:
ANSWER: God mentions the reason why the witness of two women is equal to the testimony of one man. It is because a  woman may forget or get confused, so the other woman can remind her, as He said: (Quran 2:282)
“…And get two witnesses out of your own men. And if there are not two men (available), then a man and two women, such as you agree for witnesses, so that if one of them (two women) errs, the other can remind her…�
This is not to degrade women in any way or to treat them like property, I can give you many examples how women are treated like property in the USA one only needs to open up a magazine to see this. Lol
Post #466
@ Burninglight
QUOTE: "Because the word trinity is not in the Bible but the concept is! Allah only spoke of one trinity and his misconceptions of it are apparent to all even if you deny it, the truth screams out."
ANSWER: Can you explain this concept to me, what evidence do you have that suggests that Allah was speaking of one trinity. The truth of the matter is that trinity (three) has no basis in the Old Testament nor did God instruct any person in any scripture to believe in such a concept. This is something that has been added to the Christian scriptures without any right.
QUOTE: "It matters to Christians like me. The partners with God is an Islamic term. God has no partners. Christians never said God has partners. Muslims say we Christians are guilty of what they do. Look at the second part of your shahadah. That is an association. You must mention Muhammad's name with Allah. The worship of Mary is not Biblical or true Christianity it is Catholic all the way. Allah only had a Catholic understanding of Christianity and not a Biblical one. I know this that is why I stay away from Islam. Jesus never stop anyone one from worshipping Him. Jesus completes the oneness of God, Without Him there is no oneness you speak of accept the onesness of the great deceiver and we all know who that is"
ANSWER: I can't recall how many times I have explained the shahada to you and you still continue to pose the same assumptions, explain to me how the shahada is associating partners onto God, do we worship Muhammad (peace be upon him)?? Certainly Not! The Shahada is actually confirming that none has the right to be worshipped but God and it bears witness that Muhammad (peace be upon him) is the Messenger. This is illogical who says that by putting Muhammad's name in the shahada means that we are not keeping the religion absolutely to God alone? Putting Muhammad's name in the same sentence as God does not mean they are equal. If I say that "Lara and  her dog were taking a walk in the park." Am I showing equality between the two? If I say that "The employer and his employee are doing a great job running the company." Am I implying that they both have the same authority? Certainly Not!
Regardless if you believe that the worship of Mary is true or not, the fact of the matter is there are people who worship Mary, so then how is the Quran wrong? So you know what God had an understanding of do u?? It seems you don't know much about Islam at all. The question should be where did Jesus (peace be upon him) say worship me? I accept the Oneness of God as it is prescribed by God I do not accept the Oneness of God prescribed by Man.
QUOTE: "History tells you it is true the true concept of the trinity was around before Muhammad was born. Why do you lol?"
ANSWER: Nope, history tells me overwhelmingly that the church of the first three centuries did not worship God as coequals. The early church worshipped one God and believed in a subordinate Son. This polytheistic belief originated and made it's way into the current day Christianity about 300 years after Christ.
QUOTE: "yea, right lol"
ANSWER: Yep it sure is right, lol
QUOTE: "Because the word trinity is not in the Bible but the concept is! Allah only spoke of one trinity and his misconceptions of it are apparent to all even if you deny it, the truth screams out."
ANSWER: Can you explain this concept to me, what evidence do you have that suggests that Allah was speaking of one trinity. The truth of the matter is that trinity (three) has no basis in the Old Testament nor did God instruct any person in any scripture to believe in such a concept. This is something that has been added to the Christian scriptures without any right.
QUOTE: "It matters to Christians like me. The partners with God is an Islamic term. God has no partners. Christians never said God has partners. Muslims say we Christians are guilty of what they do. Look at the second part of your shahadah. That is an association. You must mention Muhammad's name with Allah. The worship of Mary is not Biblical or true Christianity it is Catholic all the way. Allah only had a Catholic understanding of Christianity and not a Biblical one. I know this that is why I stay away from Islam. Jesus never stop anyone one from worshipping Him. Jesus completes the oneness of God, Without Him there is no oneness you speak of accept the onesness of the great deceiver and we all know who that is"
ANSWER: I can't recall how many times I have explained the shahada to you and you still continue to pose the same assumptions, explain to me how the shahada is associating partners onto God, do we worship Muhammad (peace be upon him)?? Certainly Not! The Shahada is actually confirming that none has the right to be worshipped but God and it bears witness that Muhammad (peace be upon him) is the Messenger. This is illogical who says that by putting Muhammad's name in the shahada means that we are not keeping the religion absolutely to God alone? Putting Muhammad's name in the same sentence as God does not mean they are equal. If I say that "Lara and  her dog were taking a walk in the park." Am I showing equality between the two? If I say that "The employer and his employee are doing a great job running the company." Am I implying that they both have the same authority? Certainly Not!
Regardless if you believe that the worship of Mary is true or not, the fact of the matter is there are people who worship Mary, so then how is the Quran wrong? So you know what God had an understanding of do u?? It seems you don't know much about Islam at all. The question should be where did Jesus (peace be upon him) say worship me? I accept the Oneness of God as it is prescribed by God I do not accept the Oneness of God prescribed by Man.
QUOTE: "History tells you it is true the true concept of the trinity was around before Muhammad was born. Why do you lol?"
ANSWER: Nope, history tells me overwhelmingly that the church of the first three centuries did not worship God as coequals. The early church worshipped one God and believed in a subordinate Son. This polytheistic belief originated and made it's way into the current day Christianity about 300 years after Christ.
QUOTE: "yea, right lol"
ANSWER: Yep it sure is right, lol
-
Burninglight
- Guru
- Posts: 1202
- Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:40 am
trinity
Post #467HaLi8993 wrote: @ Burninglight
QUOTE: "Because the word trinity is not in the Bible but the concept is! Allah only spoke of one trinity and his misconceptions of it are apparent to all even if you deny it, the truth screams out."In the OT God said let us make man in our image and likeness. Who was He speaking to? What about the three spiritual persons that visited Abraham and Lot who were they? Why did God allow Christianity to go on for hundreds of years since the birth of Christ. God promised to keep His word preserved. How can man be stronger than God, and corrupt His word when Muslims can't say when, why or where it happened to be corrupted? yet, they are the only ones willing to believe that nonsense. Muhammad didn't even say the Bible was corrupted. There is no proof that Muhammad was speaking of the Bible with the verse sell "For a miserable price." Basically, Modern Muslims are throwing out all of the NT with no right or authority to do so. Using Constantine and the council of Nicea as an excusae doesn't explain it. Because, God said Jesus is His beloved son and Jesus said, "I and the father are one" before that time!HaLi8993 wrote:
ANSWER: Can you explain this concept to me, what evidence do you have that suggests that Allah was speaking of one trinity. The truth of the matter is that trinity (three) has no basis in the Old Testament nor did God instruct any person in any scripture to believe in such a concept. This is something that has been added to the Christian scriptures without any right.
QUOTE: "It matters to Christians like me. The partners with God is an Islamic term. God has no partners. Christians never said God has partners. Muslims say we Christians are guilty of what they do. Look at the second part of your shahadah. That is an association. You must mention Muhammad's name with Allah. The worship of Mary is not Biblical or true Christianity it is Catholic all the way. Allah only had a Catholic understanding of Christianity and not a Biblical one. I know this that is why I stay away from Islam. Jesus never stop anyone one from worshipping Him. Jesus completes the oneness of God, Without Him there is no oneness you speak of accept the oneness of the great deceiver and we all know who that is"I don't know why you don't understand it is an association regardless whether you worship Muhammad or not. Personally I beg to differ. It is written in Islamic sources that "To obey Muhammad is to obey Allah" That sounds like Muslims making Muhammad equal to Allah to me. Besides, it doesn't matter just the fact that you must mention Muhammad with Allah in the shahadah is an association regardless whether you see him a slave or co equal. There is even a division amongst Muslim over this to where you have the Quranist only. You show a lack of knowledge about IslamHaLi8993 wrote:
ANSWER: I can't recall how many times I have explained the shahada to you and you still continue to pose the same assumptions, explain to me how the shahada is associating partners onto God, do we worship Muhammad (peace be upon him)?? Certainly Not! The Shahada is actually confirming that none has the right to be worshipped but God and it bears witness that Muhammad (peace be upon him) is the Messenger. This is illogical who says that by putting Muhammad's name in the shahada means that we are not keeping the religion absolutely to God alone? Putting Muhammad's name in the same sentence as God does not mean they are equal. If I say that "Lara and  her dog were taking a walk in the park." Am I showing equality between the two? If I say that "The employer and his employee are doing a great job running the company." Am I implying that they both have the same authority? Certainly Not!
Regardless if you believe that the worship of Mary is true or not, the fact of the matter is there are people who worship Mary, so then how is the Quran wrong? So you know what God had an understanding of do u?? It seems you don't know much about Islam at all. The question should be where did Jesus (peace be upon him) say worship me? I accept the Oneness of God as it is prescribed by God I do not accept the Oneness of God prescribed by Man.
QUOTE: "History tells you it is true the true concept of the trinity was around before Muhammad was born. Why do you lol?
The Bible states God is one and no where does it state to worship God as coequals. What Scripture do you have to back that up. The truth is Muslims are using this as an excuse to reject Jesus as who God professes Him to be and who Jesus says He is. Muslim have a problem calling Jesus a great prophet that they love, but they don't believe all that is documented about Him and even what He said about Himself. I wouldn't lol if I were you. I'd be on my face asking God for forgiveness for rejecting the only provision of salvation He made available to us.Jesus said, "I am the Way..." to God and "No man comes to the father except through me. You have been lol in Jesus' face!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! IMO, You are not standing in good graces with the Christian Allah and are in need of repentance. I hope you come to the knowledge of truth. At this point in time i think it is a waste dialoguing with you, because I might as well be talking to my wall.HaLi8993 wrote:
ANSWER: Nope, history tells me overwhelmingly that the church of the first three centuries did not worship God as coequals. The early church worshipped one God and believed in a subordinate Son. This polytheistic belief originated and made it's way into the current day Christianity about 300 years after Christ.
QUOTE: "yea, right lol"
ANSWER: Yep it sure is right, lol
Post #468
@ Burniglight
QUOTE: "In the OT God said let us make man in our image and likeness. Who was He speaking to? What about the three spiritual persons that visited Abraham and Lot who were they? Why did God allow Christianity to go on for hundreds of years since the birth of Christ. God promised to keep His word preserved. How can man be stronger than God, and corrupt His word when Muslims can't say when, why or where it happened to be corrupted? yet, they are the only ones willing to believe that nonsense. Muhammad didn't even say the Bible was corrupted. There is no proof that Muhammad was speaking of the Bible with the verse sell "For a miserable price." Basically, Modern Muslims are throwing out all of the NT with no right or authority to do so. Using Constantine and the council of Nicea as an excusae doesn't explain it. Because, God said Jesus is His beloved son and Jesus said, "I and the father are one" before that time!"
ANSWER: This verse in the OT that says "our likeness",  is all metaphoric.There is wisdom in the reason for the distortion of the Gospel one being a test for those that where given the book. The honored guests that visited Abraham according to the Quran were the three angels which were Angel Gabriel, Mika'il and Israfil they came to Ibrahim in the image of handsome young wonderfully graceful men. The Gospel came to a specific group of people those who followed the true teachings of Jesus (peace be upon him) will be saved however those who deviated and added things, corrupting the true teachings of Jesus (peace be upon him) without any right will be held accountable for what they have done. Man is not stronger than God, how can I prove years and years of tampering, adding subtracting and changes that are made to the current day Bibles.
The Quran makes it very clear the ways in which the Children of Israel tampered with the Torah and Gospel, they changed it by omitting, adding things and attributing to God words that He did not say misinterpreting the words of God. When Muhammad (peace be upon him) was sent, the original Torah and Gospel had already been altered and distorted. God revealed the Quran to His Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), and guaranteed that He Himself would preserve it, as He says:Â
QURAN: 15:9
“Verily We: it is We Who have sent down the Dhikr (i.e., the Qur’aan) and surely, We will guard it (from corruption).â€�Â
This feature was not found in any book before the Quran. From the time of Muhammad (peace be upon him) until the present (more than fourteen hundred years) the Quran has stayed the same, and not a single letter of it has been changed. As for the verse not referring to the bible not sure which verse you are talking about cause you haven't provided any references. As for the Gospels that are extant nowadays, they are not the true Gospel, but no one can deny that they contain a great deal of the Gospel that God revealed to Jesus (peace be upon him). We believe in the Gospel that was revealed to Jesus (peace be upon him) we also believe that there is no longer any book that remained as it was revealed by God, neither the Gospel nor anything else, apart from the Quran. Even the Christians themselves do not believe that the books that they have before them were revealed in that form from God, nor do they claim that Jesus (peace be upon him) wrote the Gospel or at least that it was written during his lifetime.
As for the verse John 10:30 "I (Jesus) and the Father are One." Â This verse is taken out context, because if we look at the beginning of the chapter Jesus is talking to the Jews, then talking about his followers as his sheep, he states: "...Neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father who gave them me, is greater than all, and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and the Father are One."
This verse proves only that Jesus (peace be upon him) and the Father are one in that no man can pluck the sheep out of either's hand. It does not at all state that Jesus is God's equal in everything. In fact the words of Jesus, " My Father, who gave them me is Greater than ALL...," Â in John 10:29 completely negates this claim, otherwise we are left with a contradiction just a sentence apart. All includes everyone even Jesus (peace be upon him).
QUOTE: "I don't know why you don't understand it is an association regardless whether you worship Muhammad or not. Personally I beg to differ. It is written in Islamic sources that "To obey Muhammad is to obey Allah" That sounds like Muslims making Muhammad equal to Allah to me. Besides, it doesn't matter just the fact that you must mention Muhammad with Allah in the shahadah is an association regardless whether you see him a slave or co equal. There is even a division amongst Muslim over this to where you have the Quranist only. You show a lack of knowledge about Islam"
ANSWER: How do you come to that conclusion?. To obey Allah meaning to adhere to the teachings of the Quran, and to obey Muhammad (peace be upon him) and his Sunnah (Hadith), how is this associating partners unto God or making Muhammad (peace be upon him) equal with Allah? Can you explain what you mean lol, If the Quran clearly says obey Allah and his Messenger then can we even call the Quranists Muslim when they are going against the teachings of the Quran? There is no division among Muslims regarding the shahada, if they choose not to believe in the Hadith and reject this then they have deviated from the true teachings of Islam.
QUOTE: "The Bible states God is one and no where does it state to worship God as coequals. What Scripture do you have to back that up. The truth is Muslims are using this as an excuse to reject Jesus as who God professes Him to be and who Jesus says He is. Muslim have a problem calling Jesus a great prophet that they love, but they don't believe all that is documented about Him and even what He said about Himself. I wouldn't lol if I were you. I'd be on my face asking God for forgiveness for rejecting the only provision of salvation He made available to us.Jesus said, "I am the Way..." to God and "No man comes to the father except through me. You have been lol in Jesus' face!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! IMO, You are not standing in good graces with the Christian Allah and are in need of repentance. I hope you come to the knowledge of truth. At this point in time i think it is a waste dialoguing with you, because I might as well be talking to my wall."
ANSWER: If the bible says God is one, and not to worship him as coequal then why do you believe in the concept of trinity? (three in one) this was introduced into your scriptures??Â
"The Christian doctrine of the Trinity defines God as three divine persons, the Father, the Son (Jesus Christ), and the Holy Spirit. The three persons are distinct yet coexist in unity, and are co-equal, co-eternal and consubstantial"
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity
http://www.spotlightministries.org.uk/t ... itions.htm
God doesn't profess he is the son of God nor the trinity it is man that has professed such things. We don't reject Jesus (peace be upon him) we reject the concept of the trinity and that he is God's son. I would be doing the same thing asking for forgiveness and repentance from worshipping "God the Son" and committing idolatry, which is Biblically condemned, breaking the first great commandment of God of not having any gods before him (Exodus 20:3). Again this verse is taken out of context ("I am the Way, the Truth and the Light") this verse clearly states that Jesus (peace be upon him) was the way to a mansion. He did not say that he is the destination lol. I sincerely hope that God opens your heart to the truth and guides you to the straight path. Amin.Â
QUOTE: "In the OT God said let us make man in our image and likeness. Who was He speaking to? What about the three spiritual persons that visited Abraham and Lot who were they? Why did God allow Christianity to go on for hundreds of years since the birth of Christ. God promised to keep His word preserved. How can man be stronger than God, and corrupt His word when Muslims can't say when, why or where it happened to be corrupted? yet, they are the only ones willing to believe that nonsense. Muhammad didn't even say the Bible was corrupted. There is no proof that Muhammad was speaking of the Bible with the verse sell "For a miserable price." Basically, Modern Muslims are throwing out all of the NT with no right or authority to do so. Using Constantine and the council of Nicea as an excusae doesn't explain it. Because, God said Jesus is His beloved son and Jesus said, "I and the father are one" before that time!"
ANSWER: This verse in the OT that says "our likeness",  is all metaphoric.There is wisdom in the reason for the distortion of the Gospel one being a test for those that where given the book. The honored guests that visited Abraham according to the Quran were the three angels which were Angel Gabriel, Mika'il and Israfil they came to Ibrahim in the image of handsome young wonderfully graceful men. The Gospel came to a specific group of people those who followed the true teachings of Jesus (peace be upon him) will be saved however those who deviated and added things, corrupting the true teachings of Jesus (peace be upon him) without any right will be held accountable for what they have done. Man is not stronger than God, how can I prove years and years of tampering, adding subtracting and changes that are made to the current day Bibles.
The Quran makes it very clear the ways in which the Children of Israel tampered with the Torah and Gospel, they changed it by omitting, adding things and attributing to God words that He did not say misinterpreting the words of God. When Muhammad (peace be upon him) was sent, the original Torah and Gospel had already been altered and distorted. God revealed the Quran to His Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), and guaranteed that He Himself would preserve it, as He says:Â
QURAN: 15:9
“Verily We: it is We Who have sent down the Dhikr (i.e., the Qur’aan) and surely, We will guard it (from corruption).â€�Â
This feature was not found in any book before the Quran. From the time of Muhammad (peace be upon him) until the present (more than fourteen hundred years) the Quran has stayed the same, and not a single letter of it has been changed. As for the verse not referring to the bible not sure which verse you are talking about cause you haven't provided any references. As for the Gospels that are extant nowadays, they are not the true Gospel, but no one can deny that they contain a great deal of the Gospel that God revealed to Jesus (peace be upon him). We believe in the Gospel that was revealed to Jesus (peace be upon him) we also believe that there is no longer any book that remained as it was revealed by God, neither the Gospel nor anything else, apart from the Quran. Even the Christians themselves do not believe that the books that they have before them were revealed in that form from God, nor do they claim that Jesus (peace be upon him) wrote the Gospel or at least that it was written during his lifetime.
As for the verse John 10:30 "I (Jesus) and the Father are One." Â This verse is taken out context, because if we look at the beginning of the chapter Jesus is talking to the Jews, then talking about his followers as his sheep, he states: "...Neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father who gave them me, is greater than all, and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and the Father are One."
This verse proves only that Jesus (peace be upon him) and the Father are one in that no man can pluck the sheep out of either's hand. It does not at all state that Jesus is God's equal in everything. In fact the words of Jesus, " My Father, who gave them me is Greater than ALL...," Â in John 10:29 completely negates this claim, otherwise we are left with a contradiction just a sentence apart. All includes everyone even Jesus (peace be upon him).
QUOTE: "I don't know why you don't understand it is an association regardless whether you worship Muhammad or not. Personally I beg to differ. It is written in Islamic sources that "To obey Muhammad is to obey Allah" That sounds like Muslims making Muhammad equal to Allah to me. Besides, it doesn't matter just the fact that you must mention Muhammad with Allah in the shahadah is an association regardless whether you see him a slave or co equal. There is even a division amongst Muslim over this to where you have the Quranist only. You show a lack of knowledge about Islam"
ANSWER: How do you come to that conclusion?. To obey Allah meaning to adhere to the teachings of the Quran, and to obey Muhammad (peace be upon him) and his Sunnah (Hadith), how is this associating partners unto God or making Muhammad (peace be upon him) equal with Allah? Can you explain what you mean lol, If the Quran clearly says obey Allah and his Messenger then can we even call the Quranists Muslim when they are going against the teachings of the Quran? There is no division among Muslims regarding the shahada, if they choose not to believe in the Hadith and reject this then they have deviated from the true teachings of Islam.
QUOTE: "The Bible states God is one and no where does it state to worship God as coequals. What Scripture do you have to back that up. The truth is Muslims are using this as an excuse to reject Jesus as who God professes Him to be and who Jesus says He is. Muslim have a problem calling Jesus a great prophet that they love, but they don't believe all that is documented about Him and even what He said about Himself. I wouldn't lol if I were you. I'd be on my face asking God for forgiveness for rejecting the only provision of salvation He made available to us.Jesus said, "I am the Way..." to God and "No man comes to the father except through me. You have been lol in Jesus' face!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! IMO, You are not standing in good graces with the Christian Allah and are in need of repentance. I hope you come to the knowledge of truth. At this point in time i think it is a waste dialoguing with you, because I might as well be talking to my wall."
ANSWER: If the bible says God is one, and not to worship him as coequal then why do you believe in the concept of trinity? (three in one) this was introduced into your scriptures??Â
"The Christian doctrine of the Trinity defines God as three divine persons, the Father, the Son (Jesus Christ), and the Holy Spirit. The three persons are distinct yet coexist in unity, and are co-equal, co-eternal and consubstantial"
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity
http://www.spotlightministries.org.uk/t ... itions.htm
God doesn't profess he is the son of God nor the trinity it is man that has professed such things. We don't reject Jesus (peace be upon him) we reject the concept of the trinity and that he is God's son. I would be doing the same thing asking for forgiveness and repentance from worshipping "God the Son" and committing idolatry, which is Biblically condemned, breaking the first great commandment of God of not having any gods before him (Exodus 20:3). Again this verse is taken out of context ("I am the Way, the Truth and the Light") this verse clearly states that Jesus (peace be upon him) was the way to a mansion. He did not say that he is the destination lol. I sincerely hope that God opens your heart to the truth and guides you to the straight path. Amin.Â
-
Burninglight
- Guru
- Posts: 1202
- Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:40 am
Post #469
Yes, God did say Jesus is His son. Allaah told Muhammad that he sent the torah for him to believe and follow. Muhammad referred to it often. The idea of the Bible being corrupted was never Muhammad's idea.
Post #470
@ Burninglight
QUOTE: "Yes, God did say Jesus is His son. Allaah told Muhammad that he sent the torah for him to believe and follow. Muhammad referred to it often. The idea of the Bible being corrupted was never Muhammad's idea."
ANSWER: Where does God say that Jesus (peace be upon him) is God's son in the Old Testament? Have you any evidence that God wanted such a thing from Muhammad (peace be upon him). Who's idea was it?? When one looks into History it becomes very clear how the Bible we have today has been changed and revised on countless occasions.
QUOTE: "Yes, God did say Jesus is His son. Allaah told Muhammad that he sent the torah for him to believe and follow. Muhammad referred to it often. The idea of the Bible being corrupted was never Muhammad's idea."
ANSWER: Where does God say that Jesus (peace be upon him) is God's son in the Old Testament? Have you any evidence that God wanted such a thing from Muhammad (peace be upon him). Who's idea was it?? When one looks into History it becomes very clear how the Bible we have today has been changed and revised on countless occasions.
