Did Allah start Christianty?

[Burninglight]

Allah made it look like Jesus died, but he let someone die in Jesus' place to save Jesus according to the Quran. Isn't that a form of substitutionary death? This is something some Muslims tell me God doesn't do; so, I am confused about this.

The Quran states that the unbelievers plot and scheme with deception but Allah is the "best of deceivers" Some English translations state "the best of planners," in context, however, Allah does best what the unbelievers were doing which was deceiving; so, is Allah to blame for starting Christianity or did he know his deception would cause the birth of a religion that Islam could not comprehend or overcome? For instance, Christianity, IMO, has always been bigger, better and stronger than Islam and always will be!

[HaLi8993]

@ Burninglight

QUOTE: "Yes, Ishmael was blessed and that brought comfort to Abraham for he loved the child, but God was specific that his covenant would be fulfilled through Isaac. I believe there is a passage in the Quran that mentions Isaac and Jacob only. For some reason Ishmael's name is not mentioned in one passage of the Quran, uhm. 

This rejection and casting away of the slave woman's son was not God catering to a woman's jealousy. It was God's plan to give Sarah a son of promise. She didn't trust God to wait and took matters into her own hands resulting in Ishmael son of a slave woman whose son had no part in God's covenantal promise with Isaac and Jacob"

ANSWER: Which verse might this be? How is this possible when God's covenant with Abraham was made before he had any children. Reiterated after the birth of Ishmael and before the birth of Isaac. Moreover, Ishmael is also specifically blessed, and, hence, included in God's promise.  

QUOTE: "Who knows for sure how old exactly Ishmael was some say 14 yo. I am sure there is an explanation better than saying God's word is corrupted. Maybe ishmael was prematurely small or a midget or underweight. I would be careful saying the word of God is corrupted. God's power to preserve His word is greater than man's power to corrupt it. Muslim need to say it is corrupted to justify the lies in the Quran but God knows what the best of deceivers is up to"

ANSWER: The explanation is in the Quran and Sunnah that confirms what happened, I'm not saying that God's word is corrupted I'm saying some elements of the Bible is corrupted according to what is apparent. It is clear there are many contradictions in the Gospels hence this cannot be what God wants us to follow as a true religion, as a true religion would be free from any contradiction. I would like it if you showed me any lies in the Quran instead of relying on Anti-Islamic websites to do it for you. Lol

[Burninglight]

@ Burninglight

QUOTE: "Yes, Ishmael was blessed and that brought comfort to Abraham for he loved the child, but God was specific that his covenant would be fulfilled through Isaac. I believe there is a passage in the Quran that mentions Isaac and Jacob only. For some reason Ishmael's name is not mentioned in one passage of the Quran, uhm. 

This rejection and casting away of the slave woman's son was not God catering to a woman's jealousy. It was God's plan to give Sarah a son of promise. She didn't trust God to wait and took matters into her own hands resulting in Ishmael son of a slave woman whose son had no part in God's covenantal promise with Isaac and Jacob"

ANSWER: Which verse might this be? How is this possible when God's covenant with Abraham was made before he had any children. Reiterated after the birth of Ishmael and before the birth of Isaac. Moreover, Ishmael is also specifically blessed, and, hence, included in God's promise.  

QUOTE: "Who knows for sure how old exactly Ishmael was some say 14 yo. I am sure there is an explanation better than saying God's word is corrupted. Maybe ishmael was prematurely small or a midget or underweight. I would be careful saying the word of God is corrupted. God's power to preserve His word is greater than man's power to corrupt it. Muslim need to say it is corrupted to justify the lies in the Quran but God knows what the best of deceivers is up to"

ANSWER: The explanation is in the Quran and Sunnah that confirms what happened, I'm not saying that God's word is corrupted I'm saying some elements of the Bible is corrupted according to what is apparent. It is clear there are many contradictions in the Gospels hence this cannot be what God wants us to follow as a true religion, as a true religion would be free from any contradiction. I would like it if you showed me any lies in the Quran instead of relying on Anti-Islamic websites to do it for you. Lol

What verse do you want the one from the Bible or the one in the Quran that only mentions Isaac and Jacob? You say contradictions? But the same can be said of the Quran and just like your scholars have explanation for them ours do for the Bible. So what is the point of using that argument? The Bible recorded what happened way before the Quran. I am going to believe what is documented closer to the time it happened

[HaLi8993]

@ Burninglight

QUOTE: "What verse do you want the one from the Bible or the one in the Quran that only mentions Isaac and Jacob? You say contradictions? But the same can be said of the Quran and just like your scholars have explanation for them ours do for the Bible. So what is the point of using that argument? The Bible recorded what happened way before the Quran. I am going to believe what is documented closer to the time it happened"

ANSWER: Both please.There are no contradictions in the Quran, I challenge you to find me one or any. It's one thing having an explanation of truth but it is another when new meanings emerge from God's laws through human interference. The point is that the Bible you have today has been tampered with, and changed. It may have been recorded no doubt. We too believe that many things were recorded, as we don't deny the Torah and the Injil were from God at the time.The problem is that the content is not the same anymore hence no way of knowing what is truth and what is falsehood, considering the fact that there are no two bibles that alike.

[Burninglight]

@ Burninglight

QUOTE: "What verse do you want the one from the Bible or the one in the Quran that only mentions Isaac and Jacob? You say contradictions? But the same can be said of the Quran and just like your scholars have explanation for them ours do for the Bible. So what is the point of using that argument? The Bible recorded what happened way before the Quran. I am going to believe what is documented closer to the time it happened"

ANSWER: Both please.There are no contradictions in the Quran, I challenge you to find me one or any. It's one thing having an explanation of truth but it is another when new meanings emerge from God's laws through human interference. The point is that the Bible you have today has been tampered with, and changed. It may have been recorded no doubt. We too believe that many things were recorded, as we don't deny the Torah and the Injil were from God at the time.The problem is that the content is not the same anymore hence no way of knowing what is truth and what is falsehood, considering the fact that there are no two bibles that alike.

Look at this link and see some of the contradiction in the Quran
http://answer-islam.org/Qurancontra.html

BTW, woman was the first Muslim? The Quran mention more than one person

[HaLi8993]

@ Burninglight

QUOTE: "Look at this link and see some of the contradiction in the Quran 
http://answer-islam.org/Qurancontra.html 

BTW, woman was the first Muslim? The Quran mention more than one person"

ANSWER: lol, I see your back to visiting your Anti-Islamic websites again, it won't work  Burninglight there are no Contradictions in the Quran as much as you would like to prove this it's simply not true. Do you realize that all of these points have already been refuted. Let's take one example cause the others require a detailed explanation - Who misleads people Satan or Allah. Let's look at the following verses in the Quran:

Quran 4:119-120 Satan says:

"I will mislead them, and I will create in them false desires; I will order them to slit the ears of cattle, and to deface the (fair) nature created by God." Whoever, forsaking God, takes satan for a friend, hath of a surety suffered a loss that is manifest.

Satan makes them promises, and creates in them false desires, but satan's promises are nothing but deception."

Quran 16:93 

"If God so willed, He could make you all one people: But He leaves straying whom He pleases, and He guides whom He pleases: but ye shall certainly be called to account for all your actions."

How is there a contradiction in the above verses???

In the first verse quoted, Allah clearly tells us that Satan is the primary decieving force that we might face. Hence we must always avoid listening to Satan's temptations.

In the second verse quoted above, Allah helps whom ever He wants and leaves astray whom ever he wants. This is depending on our intentions in this life, we might gain the love of God or gain His dislike or hate. Allah is not obligated to help everyone He creates. He gives us choices and  makes the straight path to follow crystal clear for us.  It is ultimately up to us (the humans) to make the decission of going with the path of Allah or going with the path of Satan and evil.  

As for women being the first Women what do you mean? can you elaborate on this please, thanks

[Burninglight]

@ Burninglight

QUOTE: "Look at this link and see some of the contradiction in the Quran 
http://answer-islam.org/Qurancontra.html 

BTW, woman was the first Muslim? The Quran mention more than one person"

ANSWER: lol, I see your back to visiting your Anti-Islamic websites again, it won't work  Burninglight there are no Contradictions in the Quran as much as you would like to prove this it's simply not true. Do you realize that all of these points have already been refuted. Let's take one example cause the others require a detailed explanation - Who misleads people Satan or Allah. Let's look at the following verses in the Quran:

Quran 4:119-120 Satan says:

"I will mislead them, and I will create in them false desires; I will order them to slit the ears of cattle, and to deface the (fair) nature created by God." Whoever, forsaking God, takes satan for a friend, hath of a surety suffered a loss that is manifest.

Satan makes them promises, and creates in them false desires, but satan's promises are nothing but deception."

Quran 16:93 

"If God so willed, He could make you all one people: But He leaves straying whom He pleases, and He guides whom He pleases: but ye shall certainly be called to account for all your actions."

How is there a contradiction in the above verses???

In the first verse quoted, Allah clearly tells us that Satan is the primary decieving force that we might face. Hence we must always avoid listening to Satan's temptations.

In the second verse quoted above, Allah helps whom ever He wants and leaves astray whom ever he wants. This is depending on our intentions in this life, we might gain the love of God or gain His dislike or hate. Allah is not obligated to help everyone He creates. He gives us choices and  makes the straight path to follow crystal clear for us.  It is ultimately up to us (the humans) to make the decission of going with the path of Allah or going with the path of Satan and evil.  

As for women being the first Women what do you mean? can you elaborate on this please, thanks

Actually, I don't know why I said woman was the first Muslim, because the Quran says Moses was the first, and Adam was, and Abraham, and Muhammad was, but I am sure to get out of the contradiction, you'll say, "they were the first for their time" which doesn't satisfy me. It is the same deception used to get out of Jesus being the only way and truth. Muslim say He was for His time only. That alone is the deception and lie of Satan. The very one you don't want to fall prey to.

Uhm, the first Muslim, maybe, I thought it was a woman (although the Quran doesn't say that) was because it was Muhammad's wife that encourage Muhammad and calmed his doubts about whether or not he should receive his revelation as from God. He doubted broke out into cold sweats when he heard voices and thought he was possessed (most likely was).

The irony is Islam is a woman inspired religion and Muhammad has the nerve to say woman have only half the witness of men and men are taught to beat their wives "In a gentle way" what a joke. Why can't you see this stuff?

[HaLi8993]

@ Burninglight

QUOTE: "Actually, I don't know why I said woman was the first Muslim, because the Quran says Moses was the first, and Adam was, and Abraham, and Muhammad was, but I am sure to get out of the contradiction, you'll say, "they were the first for their time" which doesn't satisfy me. It is the same deception used to get out of Jesus being the only way and truth. Muslim say He was for His time only. That alone is the deception and lie of Satan. The very one you don't want to fall prey to"

ANSWER: To be honest with you I don't think anything will satisfy you lol, because you don't want to accept the truth. Why doesn't it satisfy you?? The deception is caused by those who claim that this is a contradiction. Give me the verses of the Quran your referring to and I will be more than happy to prove to you they are not as you claim. The deception of Satan is that which is preventing you from seeing the truth. We have to look at the evidence at hand not follow our own desires.  

If you choose to be stubborn and insist that the Quran is not the word of God then you would have to provide evidence for such assertions and not just assume. The Quran is the word of God, hence it is up to you to prove that this book is lying.

QUOTE: "Uhm, the first Muslim, maybe, I thought it was a woman (although the Quran doesn't say that) was because it was Muhammad's wife that encourage Muhammad and calmed his doubts about whether or not he should receive his revelation as from God. He doubted broke out into cold sweats when he heard voices and thought he was possessed (most likely was)"

ANSWER: The key word here is "THOUGHT" he was possessed. Where does it say that they continued to believe so? Did the Prophet's wife Khadija continue believing that her husband (peace be upon him) was possessed? This is only your opinion.

QUOTE: "The irony is Islam is a woman inspired religion and Muhammad has the nerve to say woman have only half the witness of men and men are taught to beat their wives "In a gentle way" what a joke. Why can't you see this stuff?"

ANSWER: So a women cannot remind another women if she forgets?? Could it be considered a beating if it's gentle? See what exactly?? There is wisdom in all the laws set by God, they are for a reason. As he is the Creator of both genders hence He is the One that knows the differences between the two. What is the problem that you have with taking two witnesses and one reminding the other if the other forgets. This does not mean she is inferior to men, rather their reason is often overtaken by their emotions, and this happens to women more often than it happens to men. No one would deny this.

[Burninglight]

@ Burninglight

QUOTE: "Actually, I don't know why I said woman was the first Muslim, because the Quran says Moses was the first, and Adam was, and Abraham, and Muhammad was, but I am sure to get out of the contradiction, you'll say, "they were the first for their time" which doesn't satisfy me. It is the same deception used to get out of Jesus being the only way and truth. Muslim say He was for His time only. That alone is the deception and lie of Satan. The very one you don't want to fall prey to"

ANSWER: To be honest with you I don't think anything will satisfy you lol, because you don't want to accept the truth. Why doesn't it satisfy you?? The deception is caused by those who claim that this is a contradiction. Give me the verses of the Quran your referring to and I will be more than happy to prove to you they are not as you claim. The deception of Satan is that which is preventing you from seeing the truth. We have to look at the evidence at hand not follow our own desires.  

If you choose to be stubborn and insist that the Quran is not the word of God then you would have to provide evidence for such assertions and not just assume. The Quran is the word of God, hence it is up to you to prove that this book is lying..

The Truth? I don't have a Koranic concordance. You don't know the verse that states that Isaac and Jacob are the chosen seed of promise. There is one verse in the Quran that states that. You don't know the Quran as well as you should. It's in there. Satan is blinding me? He may be about somethings but Islam is not one of them. My God is not the father of lies or the master or best of deceivers. We all follow our own desires from time to time and must learn to submit to God. Jesus promised to finish the work He started in me. He is the author and finisher of my faith. That is very reassuring. What do you have? The Bible proves the Quran is a lie. It states that any one even an angel that preaches a different message, let him be cursed. Who is a liar? whoever says jesus is not the son of God and come in the flesh as the word of God.


QUOTE: "Uhm, the first Muslim, maybe, I thought it was a woman (although the Quran doesn't say that) was because it was Muhammad's wife that encourage Muhammad and calmed his doubts about whether or not he should receive his revelation as from God. He doubted broke out into cold sweats when he heard voices and thought he was possessed (most likely was)"

ANSWER: The key word here is "THOUGHT" he was possessed. Where does it say that they continued to believe so? Did the Prophet's wife Khadija continue believing that her husband (peace be upon him) was possessed? This is only your opinion.

Key??? That is right he thought, but I still think and many do. I didn't say he continued to think. God showed him he was hearing from a demon but he went to a woman who beguiled him like Eve did Adam. The Satan is still up to old tricks cause they still work today.

QUOTE: "The irony is Islam is a woman inspired religion and Muhammad has the nerve to say woman have only half the witness of men and men are taught to beat their wives "In a gentle way" what a joke. Why can't you see this stuff?"

ANSWER: So a women cannot remind another women if she forgets?? Could it be considered a beating if it's gentle? See what exactly?? There is wisdom in all the laws set by God, they are for a reason. As he is the Creator of both genders hence He is the One that knows the differences between the two. What is the problem that you have with taking two witnesses and one reminding the other if the other forgets. This does not mean she is inferior to men, rather their reason is often overtaken by their emotions, and this happens to women more often than it happens to men. No one would deny this.

Look, woman are treated like trash in islam. You are in denial. I can prove it: Muslims tell me beating your wives lightly in a certain way is designed for their protection. That is not logical either. Why not forbid them to strike them at all instead? Besides what one Muslim considers a light beating another might not so beating your wives is subjective Islam you women to abuse. There I nothing logical about Islam, nothing.

This is for all those who say Islam grants equal treatment for woman and that Islam is the best religion for her, here are some authentic references which shows how Islam degraded the woman to the lowest level, even the secular laws are better than that.


01) Woman can be beaten.
(Quran 4:34):
"...and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them;..."
وَاهْج�ر�وه�نَّ ��ي الْمَضَاج�ع� وَاضْر�ب�وه�نَّ

(E) (A)


02) Female inheritance is half the male and even less than that in some situations.
(Quran 4:11):
"Allah enjoins you concerning your children: The male shall have the equal of the portion of two females; then if they are more than two females, they shall have two-thirds of what the deceased has left, and if there is one, she shall have the half;..."
ي�وص�يك�م� اللَّه� ��ي أَوْلَاد�ك�مْ ل�لذَّكَر� م�ثْل� حَظّ� الْأ�نْثَيَيْن�

(E) (A)


03) Unlimited polygamy & divorce.
(Quran 4:3):
"...marry women of your choice, two, or three, or four;..."
وَإ�نْ خ��ْت�مْ أَلَّا ت�قْس�ط�وا ��ي الْيَتَامَى �َانْك�ح�وا مَا طَابَ لَك�مْ م�نَ النّ�سَاء� مَثْنَى وَث�لَاثَ وَر�بَاعَ

(E) (A)

04) Women are majority of hell.
Sahih Muslim, Book 004, Number 1982:
.......I saw Hell also. No such (abominable) sight have I ever seen as that which I saw today; and I observed that most of its inhabitants were women. They said: Messenger of Allah, on what account is it so? He said: For their ingratitude or disbelief (bi-kufraihinna). It was said: Do they disbelieve in Allah? He said: (Not for their disbelief in God) but for their ingratitude to their husbands and ingratitude to kindness. If you were to treat one of them kindly for ever, but if she later saw anything (displeasing) in you, she would say: i have never seen any good in you.
صحيح مسلم:
ورأيت النار �لم أر كاليوم منظرا قط ورأيت أكثر أهلها النساء قالوا بم يا رسول الله قال � �بك�رهن � �قيل أيك�رن بالله قال � �بك�ر � �العشير � �وبك�ر الإحسان لو أحسنت إلى إحداهن الدهر ثم رأت منك شيئا قالت ما رأيت منك خيرا قط �

(E) (A)

05) Women are the fuel of hell.
Sahih Muslim, Book 004, Number 1926:
.....He then walked on till he came to the women and preached to them and admonished them, and asked them to give alms, for most of them are the fuel for Hell.
صحيح مسلم:
ثم مضى حتى أتى النساء �وعظهن وذكرهن �قال � �تصدقن �إن أكثركن حطب جهنم

(E) (A)

06) Bad luck in the woman.
Sahih Muslim, Book 026, Number 5526:
'Umar b. Muhammad b. Zaid reported that he heard his father narrating from Ibn 'Umar that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) had said. If bad luck is a fact, then it is in the horse, the woman and the house.
صحيح مسلم:
عن النبي � �صلى الله عليه وسلم � �أنه قال � �إن يكن من الشؤم شيء حق ��ي ال�رس والمرأة والدار �
(E) (A)

07) The woman disrupt the prayer.
Sahih Muslim, Book 004, Number 1034:
Abu Huraira reported: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: A woman, a donkey and a dog disrupt the prayer, but something like the back of a saddle guards against that.
صحيح مسلم:
قال رسول الله � �صلى الله عليه وسلم � �يقطع الصلاة المرأة والحمار والكلب � �ويقي ذلك مثل � �مؤخرة � �الرحل �
(E) (A)

08) Women are like dogs.
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 9, Number 490:
The things which annul the prayers were mentioned before me. They said, "Prayer is annulled by a dog, a donkey and a woman (if they pass in front of the praying people)." I said, "You have made us (i.e. women) dogs...........
صحيح البخاري:
أنه ذكر عندها ما يقطع الصلاة �قالوا يقطعها الكلب والحمار والمرأة قالت لقد جعلتمونا كلابا
(E) (A)

09) Women are for adults suckling.
Sahih Muslim, Book 008, Number 3424:
A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Sahla bint Suhail came to Allah's Apostle (may peace be eupon him) and said: Messengerof Allah, I see on the face of Abu Hudhaifa (signs of disgust) on entering of Salim (who is an ally) into (our house), whereupon Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) said: Suckle him. She said: How can I suckle him as he is a grown-up man? ......
صحيح مسلم:
جاءت � �سهلة بنت سهيل � �إلى النبي � �صلى الله عليه وسلم � ��قالت يا رسول الله إني أرى �ي وجه � �أبي حذي�ة � �من دخول � �سالم � �وهو حلي�ه �قال النبي � �صلى الله عليه وسلم � �أرضعيه قالت وكي� أرضعه وهو رجل كبير �تبسم رسول الله � �صلى الله عليه وسلم � �وقال قد علمت أنه رجل كبير
(E) (A)

10) Woman can have sex even during her periods (menses).
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 6, Number 299:
Narrated 'Abdur-Rahman bin Al-Aswad:
(on the authority of his father) 'Aisha said: "Whenever Allah's Apostle wanted to fondle anyone of us during her periods (menses), he used to order her to put on an Izar and start fondling her." 'Aisha added, "None of you could control his sexual desires as the Prophet could."
صحيح البخاري:
كانت إحدانا إذا كانت حائضا �أراد رسول الله � �صلى الله عليه وسلم � �أن يباشرها � �أمرها أن تتزر �ي � ��ور � �حيضتها ثم يباشرها قالت وأيكم يملك � �إربه � �كما كان النبي � �صلى الله عليه وسلم � �يملك � �إربه �
(A) (E)

11) Woman can't travel alone.
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 3, Book 29, Number 85:
"The Prophet said, "A woman should not travel except with a Dhu-Mahram (her husband or a man with whom that woman cannot marry at all according to the Islamic Jurisprudence), and no man may visit her except in the presence of a Dhu-Mahram." A man got up and said, "O Allah's Apostle! I intend to go to such and such an army and my wife wants to perform Hajj." The Prophet said (to him), "Go along with her (to Hajj)."
صحيح البخاري:
قال النبي � �صلى الله عليه وسلم � �لا تسا�ر المرأة إلا مع ذي محرم ولا يدخل عليها رجل إلا ومعها محرم �قال رجل يا رسول الله إني أريد أن أخرج �ي جيش كذا وكذا وامرأتي تريد الحج �قال اخرج معها �
(E) (A)


12) Woman is deficient in intelligence & religion, and her witness is half the man.
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 6, Number 301:
Once Allah's Apostle went out to the Musalla (to offer the prayer) o 'Id-al-Adha or Al-Fitr prayer. Then he passed by the women and said, "O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women)." They asked, "Why is it so, O Allah's Apostle ?" He replied, "You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you." The women asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?" He said, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?" They replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?" The women replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her religion."
صحيح البخاري:
خرج رسول الله � �صلى الله عليه وسلم � ��ي أضحى أو �طر إلى المصلى �مر على النساء �قال يا معشر النساء � �تصدقن �إني � �أريتكن � �أكثر أهل النار �قلن وبم يا رسول الله قال تكثرن � �اللعن � �وتك�رن � �العشير � �ما رأيت من ناقصات عقل ودين أذهب � �للب � �الرجل الحازم من إحداكن قلن وما نقصان ديننا وعقلنا يا رسول الله قال أليس شهادة المرأة مثل نص� شهادة الرجل قلن بلى قال �ذلك من نقصان عقلها أليس إذا حاضت لم تصل ولم تصم قلن بلى قال �ذلك من نقصان دينها �
(E) (A)

According to these verses women are dangerous and deserve to be hidden and beaten and treated like dogs and property. According to this you aren't worthy of my time. I could almost think these verses are true talking with you. Listen, sister the truth is you need to get out of that deception. You're subjectively involved and can't see how Satan has blinded you, but God is warning you through me.

[HaLi8993]

@ Burninglight

QUOTE: "The Truth? I don't have a Koranic concordance. You don't know the verse that states that Isaac and Jacob are the chosen seed of promise. There is one verse in the Quran that states that. You don't know the Quran as well as you should. It's in there. Satan is blinding me? He may be about somethings but Islam is not one of them. My God is not the father of lies or the master or best of deceivers. We all follow our own desires from time to time and must learn to submit to God. Jesus promised to finish the work He started in me. He is the author and finisher of my faith. That is very reassuring. What do you have? The Bible proves the Quran is a lie. It states that any one even an angel that preaches a different message, let him be cursed. Who is a liar? whoever says jesus is not the son of God and come in the flesh as the word of God"

ANSWER: Not sure which verse your referring too, I guess you haven't learnt from your mistakes cause you still haven't submitted yourself to God yet. Lol. Yes you are correct God completed the Gospel but he chose Islam for you to follow after this which He has preserved as a sign for all those who believe. How does the bible prove the Quran to be a lie?? Who said anything about teaching a different message?? All the books God revealed to mankind including the Gospel came with the message to worship One true God, unfortunately this is not the case with Christians as they believe in the Trinity. Jesus (peace be upon him) never proclaimed he was the son of God. 

QUOTE: "Key??? That is right he thought, but I still think and many do. I didn't say he continued to think. God showed him he was hearing from a demon but he went to a woman who beguiled him like Eve did Adam. The Satan is still up to old tricks cause they still work today"
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ANSWER: That's the problem "you think" that is not a legitimate argument, we need evidence. We cannot "think". Forward your evidence Burninglight cause  opinions don't count as an argument lol.

QUOTE: "Look, woman are treated like trash in islam. You are in denial. I can prove it: Muslims tell me beating your wives lightly in a certain way is designed for their protection. That is not logical either. Why not forbid them to strike them at all instead? Besides what one Muslim considers a light beating another might not so beating your wives is subjective Islam you women to abuse. There I nothing logical about Islam, nothing. 

This is for all those who say Islam grants equal treatment for woman and that Islam is the best religion for her, here are some authentic references which shows how Islam degraded the woman to the lowest level, even the secular laws are better than that"

ANSWER: Trash? We are treated like Queens. Islam makes it very clear that it cannot cause harm or injury hence someone has to abide by the evidence we have, therefore someone cannot have a different understanding of light. Besides this is only advised as a last result only if one thinks it will be effective. Just like you would tap a child if he/she misbehaved. Every women knows that this will definitely have an impact on her reforming her behavior because she would not want her marriage to fall apart due to her actions. Islam treats both men and women justly, there is nothing degrading about it.

QUOTE: "01) Woman can be beaten. 
(Quran 4:34): 
"...and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them;..." 

ANSWER: As I have mentioned on so many occasions this does not imply the definition of a violent beating. You are misunderstanding the verse and taking things out of context as usual without a solid understanding of Islam.

QURAN 2:231

"...Do not retain them (i.e., your wives) to harm them..."

QURAN 4:128

"If a wife fears cruelty or desertion on her husband's part, there is no blame on them if they arrange an amicable settlement between themselves; and such settlement is best; even though men's souls are swayed by greed. But if ye do good and practise self-restraint, God is well-acquainted with all that ye do."

Narrated Mu'awiyah al-Qushayri: "I went to the Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him) and asked him: What do you say (command) about our wives? He replied: Give them food what you have for yourself, and clothe them by which you clothe yourself, AND DO NOT BEAT THEM, and do not revile them.  

(Sunan Abu-Dawud, Book 11, Marriage (Kitab Al-Nikah), Number 2139)"

Abu Huraira (Allah be pleased with him) reported Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) as saying: "He who believes in Allah and the Hereafter, if he witnesses any matter he should talk in good terms about it or keep quiet. Act kindly towards woman, for woman is created from a rib, and the most crooked part of the rib is its top. If you attempt to straighten it, you will break it, and if you leave it, its crookedness will remain there. SO ACT KINDLY TOWARDS WOMEN.  (Translation of Sahih Muslim, The Book of Marriage (Kitab Al-Nikah), Book 008, Number 3468)" 

QURAN: 4:19

"O ye who believe! Ye are forbidden to inherit women against their will. Nor should ye treat them with harshness, that ye may take away part of the dower [money given by the husband to the wife for the marriage contract] ye have given them, except where they have been guilty of open lewdness; on the contrary live with them on a footing of KINDNESS AND EQUALITY. If ye take a dislike to them it may be that ye dislike a thing, and God brings about through it a great deal of good.  

QURAN 30:21

"And among God's signs is this: He created for you mates from amongst yourselves (males as mates for females and vice versa) that you might find tranquillity and peace in them. And he has put LOVE AND KINDNESS among you. Herein surely are signs for those who reflect. 

Narrated Abu Huraira: "Allah's Apostle said, 'The strong is not the one who overcomes the people by his strength, but the strong is the one who controls himself while in anger.  

(Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Good Manners and Form (Al-Adab), Volume 8, Book 73, Number 135)"

Narrated Abu Huraira: "A man said to the Prophet , 'Advise me! 'The Prophet said, 'Do not become angry and furious.' The man asked (the same) again and again, and the Prophet said in each case, 'Do not become angry and furious.'   

(Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Good Manners and Form (Al-Adab), Volume 8, Book 73, Number 137)" 

Abu Huraira reported: "I heard Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: One is not strong because of one's wrestling skillfully. They said: Allah's Messenger, then who is strong? He said: He who controls his anger when he is in a fit of rage.  (Translation of Sahih Muslim, The Book of Virtue, Good Manners and Joining of the Ties of Relationship 

(Kitab Al-Birr was-Salat-I-wa'l-Adab), Book 032, Number 6314)"

QURAN 3:134

Allah Almighty loves those who restrain anger: "Those who spend (freely), whether in prosperity, or in adversity; who restrain anger, and pardon (all) men; for Allah loves those who do good.  

QUOTE: "02) Female inheritance is half the male and even less than that in some situations. 
(Quran 4:11): 
"Allah enjoins you concerning your children: The male shall have the equal of the portion of two females; then if they are more than two females, they shall have two-thirds of what the deceased has left, and if there is one, she shall have the half;..." 

ANSWER: How is this degrading women, this is in favor of women lol, God has set this law for a reason, the man is the provider and maintainer of women hence the reason he is entitled to more inheritance. Who does this money end up going too in the end? The women cause the man spends on her and her family anyway.

QUOTE: " Unlimited polygamy & divorce"

ANSWER: This is not true, show me where it says unlimited.  

QUOTE: "04) Women are majority of hell. 
Sahih Muslim, Book 004, Number 1982: 
.......I saw Hell also. No such (abominable) sight have I ever seen as that which I saw today; and I observed that most of its inhabitants were women. They said: Messenger of Allah, on what account is it so? He said: For their ingratitude or disbelief (bi-kufraihinna). It was said: Do they disbelieve in Allah? He said: (Not for their disbelief in God) but for their ingratitude to their husbands and ingratitude to kindness. If you were to treat one of them kindly for ever, but if she later saw anything (displeasing) in you, she would say: i have never seen any good in you."

ANSWER: Yes, God tells us that Hellfire will have more women then men for their Ingratitude towards their husbands, so what's the problem?? Does this mean there will be no men in the hellfire?

Muhammad (peace be upon him) was merely saying what he saw and its reason. If the ratio of women to men here on planet earth is larger, then it is only logical that the ratio of women to men in hell would also be larger.

QUOTE: "05) Women are the fuel of hell. 
Sahih Muslim, Book 004, Number 1926: 
.....He then walked on till he came to the women and preached to them and admonished them, and asked them to give alms, for most of them are the fuel for Hell."

ANSWER: Yes women that will be destined for Hell will be the fuel of Hell, does this mean Men that are destined for Hell won't be??

QUOTE: "06) Bad luck in the woman. 
Sahih Muslim, Book 026, Number 5526: 
'Umar b. Muhammad b. Zaid reported that he heard his father narrating from Ibn 'Umar that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) had said. If bad luck is a fact, then it is in the horse, the woman and the house"

ANSWER: This Hadith you have mentioned above has been take out of context. The following text contained in the sixth volume of Imam Ahmad Ibn Hambal’s Musnad presents the true picture in this regard:

Abu-Hassan reports that two people came to A’ishah and said to her that Abu Hurayrah narrates that the Prophet used to say that bad luck is to be found only in women, horses and houses. At this A’ishah replied: By the God who revealed the Qur’an to the Prophet! The Prophet never said this; what he did say was that the People of the Jahilliyyah hold this opinion…

Therefore It is evident from this text of the Hadith that this saying has been attributed to the Prophet (peace be upon him). He had actually quoted the views held by the people of Jahilliyyah (age of ignorance)

QUOTE: "07) The woman disrupt the prayer. 
Sahih Muslim, Book 004, Number 1034: 
Abu Huraira reported: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: A woman, a donkey and a dog disrupt the prayer, but something like the back of a saddle guards against that"

ANSWER: Yes women disrupt prayers, whats your point?. This is in reference to the prayer as it will make his prayer imperfect due to the distraction they will cause in people’s hearts.

QUOTE: "08) Women are like dogs. 
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 9, Number 490: 
The things which annul the prayers were mentioned before me. They said, "Prayer is annulled by a dog, a donkey and a woman (if they pass in front of the praying people)." I said, "You have made us (i.e. women) dogs........... "

ANSWER: Where is the rest of the Hadith??, Can you show me where it says women are like dogs?

QUOTE: " Women are for adults suckling. 
Sahih Muslim, Book 008, Number 3424: 
A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Sahla bint Suhail came to Allah's Apostle (may peace be eupon him) and said: Messengerof Allah, I see on the face of Abu Hudhaifa (signs of disgust) on entering of Salim (who is an ally) into (our house), whereupon Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) said: Suckle him. She said: How can I suckle him as he is a grown-up man? ......"

ANSWER: Only a sick perverted person would come to this conclusion.  It is well known that a newborn baby suckles directly from the breast because he/she is unable to drink from a cup in contrast to older children and adults. That is why it is only natural and logical to think of a cup or a similar object when one mentions a grown up person, not direct suckling from the breast, especially when the Arabic word Reda' - which is rendered to nursing or suckling - does not indicate any direct contact. There is no room for misunderstanding or misinterpretation here.

QUOTE: "10) Woman can have sex even during her periods (menses). 
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 6, Number 299: 
Narrated 'Abdur-Rahman bin Al-Aswad: 
(on the authority of his father) 'Aisha said: "Whenever Allah's Apostle wanted to fondle anyone of us during her periods (menses), he used to order her to put on an Izar and start fondling her." 'Aisha added, "None of you could control his sexual desires as the Prophet could." 

ANSWER: You are mistaken a women is not permitted to have sex while menstruating, fondling does not mean sex. Whenever Aisha would get her Mensus she would put on a Izar this would indicate to the Prophet (peace be upon him) that she was indeed on her Mensus, hence he would avoid having sexual relations with her. 

'A'isha reported:  "When anyone amongst us (amongst the wives of the Holy Prophet) menstruated, the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) asked her to tie a waist-wrapper over her (body) and then embraced her.  (Translation of Sahih Muslim, The Book of Menstruation (Kitab Al-Haid), Book 003, Number 0577)"

It is clearly disallowed in the Quran:

QURAN 2:222

"They ask thee concerning women's courses. Say: They are a hurt and a pollution:  So keep away from women in their courses, and do not approach them until they are clean.  But when they have purified themselves, ye may approach them in any manner, time, or place ordained for you by God. For God loves those who turn to Him constantly and He loves those who keep themselves pure and clean.  

QUOTE: "11) Woman can't travel alone. 
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 3, Book 29, Number 85: 
"The Prophet said, "A woman should not travel except with a Dhu-Mahram (her husband or a man with whom that woman cannot marry at all according to the Islamic Jurisprudence), and no man may visit her except in the presence of a Dhu-Mahram." A man got up and said, "O Allah's Apostle! I intend to go to such and such an army and my wife wants to perform Hajj." The Prophet said (to him), "Go along with her (to Hajj)." 

ANSWER: One only needs to look at the statistics that indicate the amount of women that go missing each year, due to traveling  by themselves without any male to protect her and aid her along her journey. Which women would risk traveling my herself  without a male counterpart?

QUOTE: "12) Woman is deficient in intelligence & religion, and her witness is half the man. 
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 6, Number 301: 
Once Allah's Apostle went out to the Musalla (to offer the prayer) o 'Id-al-Adha or Al-Fitr prayer. Then he passed by the women and said, "O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women)." They asked, "Why is it so, O Allah's Apostle ?" He replied, "You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you." The women asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?" He said, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?" They replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?" The women replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her religion." 

ANSWER: This Hadith mentions that the Prophet (peace be upon him) clearly clarifies what he meant. His clarification pinpoints certain aspects that suggest no inferiority whatsoever. The mental deficiency is related to the fact that in certain cases, two women witnesses are required in place of one man witness. This has to do with the role of each of the two sexes in Islamic society. It is no reflection on a woman’s mental ability. As for religious deficiency, the Prophet (peace be upon him) states the fact that a woman is exempt from prayer and fasting when she is in menstruation. While God gives a woman the reward for prayer and fasting as if she has done them, since she stops only because of her condition and in response to God’s orders, still the fact that she does not fulfill these duties means that her worship is less in terms of what she offers. It does not mean that she is a lesser believer.

QUOTE: "According to these verses women are dangerous and deserve to be hidden and beaten and treated like dogs and property. According to this you aren't worthy of my time. I could almost think these verses are true talking with you. Listen, sister the truth is you need to get out of that deception. You're subjectively involved and can't see how Satan has blinded you, but God is warning you through me"

ANSWER: According to your post you have failed to understand the teachings of Islam, instead you have again resorted to your own opinions and understandings without any logic or understanding, instead resorting to your Anti-Islamic websites that would go to any lengths to try and discredit Islam. You need to seek for the truth with an open heart and look into the meanings of the Quran and Hadith that clarify all this nonsense. 

[HaLi8993]

@ Burninglight

Seeing as you have brought these topics up would you mind clarifying a few things for me, according to your own scripture:

1) BEATING  IS OPEN TO ANYONE, who is deemed to have evil in them or acting stupid and is a fool.  

 "Young people take pride in their strength, but the gray hairs of wisdom are even more beautiful.  A severe beating can knock all of the evil out of you!  (From the Contemporary English Version (CEV) Bible, Proverbs 20:29-30)"

"Hatred stirs up trouble; love overlooks the wrongs that others do.  If you have good sense, it will show when you speak.  But if you are stupid, you will be beaten with a stick.  If you have good sense, you will learn all you can, but foolish talk will soon destroy you.  (From the Contemporary English Version (CEV) Bible, Proverbs 10:12-14)"

"A curse you don’t deserve will take wings and fly away like a sparrow or a swallow.  Horses and donkeys must be beaten and bridled— and so must fools.  Don’t make a fool of yourself by answering a fool.  (From the Contemporary English Version (CEV) Bible, Proverbs 26:2-4)"

2) A WIFE (WIDOW) INHERITS NOTHING, and a daughter only inherits if a son exists, older son gets double of what the younger son would get.

Numbers 27
8 "Say to the Israelites, 'If a man dies and leaves no son, turn his inheritance over to his daughter. 
9 If he has no daughter, give his inheritance to his brothers. 
10 If he has no brothers, give his inheritance to his father's brothers. 
11 If his father had no brothers, give his inheritance to the nearest relative in his clan, that he may possess it. This is to be a legal requirement for the Israelites, as the LORD commanded Moses.' "

Deuteronomy 21
15 If a man has two wives, and he loves one but not the other, and both bear him sons but the firstborn is the son of the wife he does not love, 
16 when he wills his property to his sons, he must not give the rights of the firstborn to the son of the wife he loves in preference to his actual firstborn, the son of the wife he does not love. 
17 He must acknowledge the son of his unloved wife as the firstborn by giving him a double share of all he has. That son is the first sign of his father's strength. The right of the firstborn belongs to him. 

3) A MAN CAN MARRY AN INFINITE AMOUNT OF WOMEN WITHOUT ANY LIMITS

Exodus 21:10

If a man who has married a slave wife takes another wife for himself, he must not neglect the rights of the first wife to food, clothing, and sexual intimacy

4)   A WOWEN CANNOT DIVORCE HER HUSBAND

Romans 7:2-3

For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law that binds her to him. So then, if she marries another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress.

1 Corinthians 7:39

A woman is bound to her husband as long as he lives. But if her husband dies, she is free to marry anyone she wishes, but he must belong to the Lord.

Imagine, the cruelty. A woman cannot divorce her husband?? If she does and then remarries someone else then she is committing adultery??

5) WOMEN ARE TO BE SILENCED:

What the New Testament has to say:

1 Timothy 2:11-14 "Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression."

1 Corinthians 14:34 "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church."

6) MEN CAN SHAVE THE HEAD OF WOMEN IF THEY DON'T COVER IT:

1 Corinthians 11:5-10: But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven. For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered. For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man. For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man. For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.

7) WOMEN TREATED AS SEX SLAVES

Exodus 21:7-8 And in case a man should sell his daughter as a slave girl, she will not go out in the way that the slave men go out.  If she is displeasing in the eyes of her master so that he doesn't designate her as a concubine but causes her to be redeemed, he will not be entitled to sell her to a foreign people in his treacherously dealing with her.

8) WOMEN ARE PHYSICALLY DEFILING WHEN THEY HAVE THEIR MENSUS:

Leviticus 15:19-30 - And if a woman have an issue (her period/menses), [and] her issue in her flesh be blood, she shall be put apart seven days: and whosoever toucheth her shall be unclean until the even. And every thing that she lieth upon in her separation shall be unclean....

9) THE HEAD OF EVERY WOMEN IS MAN:

1 Corinthians 11:3

3Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God. 

Furthermore is considered under God.

10) WOMEN ARE FORCED TO MARRY HER RAPIST?

Deuteronomy 22:28

28 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29 he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. [c] He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.

In conclusion I will stop at that, I don't want to get into the X rated verses mentioned in the Bible, Therefore according to these verses Burniglight we can see how women can be beaten, have no inheritance, have their hair shaven, are under men, forced to marry their rapists, treated as sex slaves etc, now before you say that some of these verses were the laws of the OT and don't apply anymore, I would like to remind you what Jesus (peace be upon him) said:

Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.  I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.  (Matthew 5:17-18)

So I have shown you how you have taken things out of context when it came to the verses you quoted, can you do the same with these verses.How hasn't Satan deceived you?