Back to basics: Give me an argument as to why a god exists

[FaerieStories]

Hi, I'm new here and I see a lot of active topics on specific concepts where users are already heavily engaged in debate, making it a little hard for me to join in. So to test the waters a little (and to help me decide whether or not to stick around here), let's go back to basics and have a debate about the most fundamental question at hand here: does a god exist?

As a non-believer, I have yet to discover any convincing reason as to why I should believe in a god. So, if a Theist would like to get the ball rolling by giving me a reason why god exists, that would be great.

(PS: unrelated question: what is the general breakdown of belief/non-belief on these forums? Is it an even mix of believers and non-believers, or is there- as tends to happen on the internet- a larger proportion of atheists to Theists?).

[Nickman]

Hi, I'm new here and I see a lot of active topics on specific concepts where users are already heavily engaged in debate, making it a little hard for me to join in. So to test the waters a little (and to help me decide whether or not to stick around here), let's go back to basics and have a debate about the most fundamental question at hand here: does a god exist?

As a non-believer, I have yet to discover any convincing reason as to why I should believe in a god. So, if a Theist would like to get the ball rolling by giving me a reason why god exists, that would be great.

(PS: unrelated question: what is the general breakdown of belief/non-belief on these forums? Is it an even mix of believers and non-believers, or is there- as tends to happen on the internet- a larger proportion of atheists to Theists?).

Asking someone to engage you by getting the ball rolling doesn't work to well around here and is a poor way to start a thread. Im not knocking you just giving advice from experience. There are probably 400 threads on this topic here. I have one going called "God is an Imaginary Friend for Adults" which is ongoing. Feel free to join if you like. It has kinda went into a flat earth topic though. Welcome to the forum.

Nick

[FaerieStories]

I was well aware that this is not going to be a question that has not been debated at length before. But nonetheless I feel this is a simple enough exercise: if there are believers here, they must have a reason why they believe (and why they think others should too), and so all they have to do is post that reason, and we're away.

I just like to start things from scratch. Like you say, topics tend to drift away from the initial point of them, so I would like to start out with this very simple point of debate.

[Nickman]

I was well aware that this is not going to be a question that has not been debated at length before. But nonetheless I feel this is a simple enough exercise: if there are believers here, they must have a reason why they believe (and why they think others should too), and so all they have to do is post that reason, and we're away.

I just like to start things from scratch. Like you say, topics tend to drift away from the initial point of them, so I would like to start out with this very simple point of debate.

I find it easier to make a claim yourself backed by evidence which will peak curiosity or cause some some hairs to raise. Thats when I have found people start to engage. Otherwise they will pass threads by. Its easier to overlook a post asking for a claim than to pass one by that violates your beliefs.

[FaerieStories]

Ok, fair enough. I just wanted to do it this way since- as an atheist- I am not the one making any claims about the nonexistence of god, only about the validity of the arguments purported by Theists.

But hey it's worth a shot, if no-one responds I'll learn my lesson and start with my own point next time.

[LiamOS]

(PS: unrelated question: what is the general breakdown of belief/non-belief on these forums? Is it an even mix of believers and non-believers, or is there- as tends to happen on the internet- a larger proportion of atheists to Theists?).

It's my observation that the members who remain for long periods of time are very evenly distributed over the entire spectrum of religious beliefs(or lack thereof). I do think that the most active group on the forum would be Atheists, though, but not by too much.
There is also a large portion of users who come for anything between days and weeks and then leave never to be seen again; I think these tend to be very strong Christians for the most part, followed by strong Atheists, followed by the crazies(You'll know them when you see them).
It's also been my observation that the majority of people banned from the forum have been Christians, but I haven't actually counted, so I can't be completely sure.

Anyway, welcome to the forum.

[FaerieStories]

Thanks, that's good to hear. I've been on many forums in the past- though none specifically and entirely dedicated to religious debate. I have tended to find that atheists vastly outnumber Theists, and that the few Theists there are tend to be the unreasonable creationist sorts rather than anyone you're able to hold a civilised discussion with.

[JoeyKnothead]

From the OP:

let's go back to basics and have a debate about the most fundamental question at hand here: does a god exist?

Only as a concept.

We note that in the history of mankind, the best "evidence" we have for a god's existence is personal testimony, and ancient, and well, not-so-ancient tomes. None of which should lead us to conclude a god exists beyond the wishful thinking of the given god's promoters.

In the god concept we see its use as a place to store wishes and dreams, prejudices and fears, and all manner of notions in betwixt. What we never see is any means of confirmation for the concept as reality, beyond our own, or others' incredulity. The god concept may be a useful tool for personal and even societal change, but for my money, I contend the carrot and stick approach so often offered - "believe or suffer for eternity" but only after you die, where you're in a realm we have no means of confirming to exist - is nothing more'n an attempt at intellectual bullying that can result in the physical bullying of others. It's a notion whose time has long since passed.

In my experience, the god concept is a direct reflection of the psychological state of the worshiper involved. Notice that so often where we see an otherwise sane, rational, compassionate individual, their concept of god follows that same pattern. But woe be upon those who encounter an evil, mean ol' cuss and his evil, mean ol' god.

Gods don't exist except as concepts, but folks who claim to speak for gods may sometime give the impression they think they are God himself.

[McCulloch]

I don't know what you mean. Really, I don't. I do not know what you mean when you use the word God. I do not believe that anyone can have a meaningful discussion about the existence of God if we first do not have some understanding of what is meant by the word God.

Is God a spirit? What is spirit? Is God eternal? What does that mean? Does God have will and personality? Must God be omniscient, omni-everything?

[FaerieStories]

I don't know what you mean. Really, I don't. I do not know what you mean when you use the word God.

What I mean is that there is a certain entity called a 'god' which certain people believe in. This thing- 'god' can mean very different things to different people, though usually it is some sort of higher power which has had some kind of impact on humanity.

For the purposes of this discussion I welcome any form of 'god'. If someone claims a god exists, they can explain what they mean by that, and then we're away.

I do not believe that anyone can have a meaningful discussion about the existence of God if we first do not have some understanding of what is meant by the word God.

I agree. But that is not for me to limit. If someone here wants to go ahead and assert which god they believe in and that god's specific attributes then we can work from there.