Back to basics: Give me an argument as to why a god exists

[FaerieStories]

Hi, I'm new here and I see a lot of active topics on specific concepts where users are already heavily engaged in debate, making it a little hard for me to join in. So to test the waters a little (and to help me decide whether or not to stick around here), let's go back to basics and have a debate about the most fundamental question at hand here: does a god exist?

As a non-believer, I have yet to discover any convincing reason as to why I should believe in a god. So, if a Theist would like to get the ball rolling by giving me a reason why god exists, that would be great.

(PS: unrelated question: what is the general breakdown of belief/non-belief on these forums? Is it an even mix of believers and non-believers, or is there- as tends to happen on the internet- a larger proportion of atheists to Theists?).

[FaerieStories]

Rkrause, for you to think that your answer would actually bring hope to one who see death as the cure for life.....Waste of time.
No admitted atheist wants to say... " God exist".

Who cares whether anyone 'wants' to say that god exists or not? I do not care whether he exists or doesn't, I only want to have the best understanding of reality that I possibly can- and that means making sure that I base my beliefs on logic, reason and evidence.

[Nickman]

I don't think as an atheist we can even use the word belief in the same sense as those in christianity.Ours is based on factual evidence. Those of christianity are based on a lack of evidence and subjectivity or partiality to the bible or whatever holy book.

Time and time again I see people putting the bible on a pedestal making it an authority above actual evidence. Just because the bible says this or that doesnt makeit true. Especially, with the concept of god. What a theist may claim as proof (the universe) we atheists se otherwise. The christian sees, through subjectivity, a creation. We see chaos. So god's existence is a matter of interpretation and therefore nothing can be proven one way or the other.

On the other hand, specific gods can be refuted and have been refuted quite well. The god of the bible has been refuted beyond any doubt. In a few years or several hundred people will come around. Once they see that 2000 years is not the same as what is said in the NT when the authors and Jesus himself speak of THIS GENERATION and COMING SOON and SOME OF YOU WONT TASTE DEATH UNTIL THESE THINGS COME TO PASS, the bible will be rightfully put into history as another mythicsl, historical, and scientific text of its own time.

[Tex]

Rkrause, for you to think that your answer would actually bring hope to one who see death as the cure for life.....Waste of time.
No admitted atheist wants to say... " God exist".

Who cares whether anyone 'wants' to say that god exists or not? I do not care whether he exists or doesn't, I only want to have the best understanding of reality that I possibly can- and that means making sure that I base my beliefs on logic, reason and evidence.

In your "beliefs" What is more logical to you? That God exist or doesn't exist.

[FaerieStories]

Rkrause, for you to think that your answer would actually bring hope to one who see death as the cure for life.....Waste of time.
No admitted atheist wants to say... " God exist".

Who cares whether anyone 'wants' to say that god exists or not? I do not care whether he exists or doesn't, I only want to have the best understanding of reality that I possibly can- and that means making sure that I base my beliefs on logic, reason and evidence.

In your "beliefs" What is more logical to you? That God exist or doesn't exist.

It is logical to believe in what we have evidence for- and it is illogical to believe in things that we don't. And I have not yet seen convincing evidence that a god exists. So therefore I do not believe in god.

[Tex]

Rkrause, for you to think that your answer would actually bring hope to one who see death as the cure for life.....Waste of time.
No admitted atheist wants to say... " God exist".

Who cares whether anyone 'wants' to say that god exists or not? I do not care whether he exists or doesn't, I only want to have the best understanding of reality that I possibly can- and that means making sure that I base my beliefs on logic, reason and evidence.

In your "beliefs" What is more logical to you? That God exist or doesn't exist.

It is logical to believe in what we have evidence for- and it is illogical to believe in things that we don't. And I have not yet seen convincing evidence that a god exists. So therefore I do not believe in god.

That is not the question.
What would be more logical in your mind? That a God exist or doesn't exist.

It's not a difficult question.

[Rkrause]

Lets see how you respond to just one example of my personal evidence for God.

10 years ago my father was diagnosed with stage 4 pancreatic cancer. During that time I had many dreams about a smile. The smile didn't belong to a face it just hung there in mid air in my dreams. I knew it was related to my father some how so I hated the smile, but I kept dreaming of it. In my sketch pad I drew pictures of it and wrote about it. I hated it.

The night my father died 2 of my sisters called me about midnight to tell me to come to the nursing home because my father was about to die. I told them to call me again when it was all over. About 3 am I recieved another call from my sister saying my father was dead.

I got to the nursing home were I was told about the beautiful smile my dad had on his face when toke his last breath. I told my sisters I had already seen the smile and showed them my sketch pad (which was at the nursing home because we all took turns staying with him). My sketch pad had the dates when I drew or wrote something in it.

How do you explain the dreams?

So... the only possible way you can explain this is a god? Really? Your best and most logical explanation is the throw up an even bigger mystery?

In your situation I would simply say: "I do not know". Because that is the truth. I know mysteries are uncomfortable things, and knowing is always more comforting than not-knowing, but just ASSUMING it is the work of a god is grossly unreasonable. You would be more justified in assuming it is coincidence, because at least that answers the mystery completely and totally rather than throwing up any larger questions about where this 'god' came from.

Anyway, if it actually was a god, don't you think he would have better things to do- like stopping his beloved children from destroying each other- than giving some people mild psychic powers for fun?

Do you believe in "mild psychic powers"?

[FaerieStories]

Rkrause, for you to think that your answer would actually bring hope to one who see death as the cure for life.....Waste of time.
No admitted atheist wants to say... " God exist".

Who cares whether anyone 'wants' to say that god exists or not? I do not care whether he exists or doesn't, I only want to have the best understanding of reality that I possibly can- and that means making sure that I base my beliefs on logic, reason and evidence.

In your "beliefs" What is more logical to you? That God exist or doesn't exist.

It is logical to believe in what we have evidence for- and it is illogical to believe in things that we don't. And I have not yet seen convincing evidence that a god exists. So therefore I do not believe in god.

That is not the question.
What would be more logical in your mind? That a God exist or doesn't exist.

It's not a difficult question.

I've already answered the question. Given that we have no evidence that this god exists, it is not logical to assume that he does.

[FaerieStories]

Do you believe in "mild psychic powers"?

No, I do not have any good reason to.

[Rkrause]

Lets see how you respond to just one example of my personal evidence for God.

10 years ago my father was diagnosed with stage 4 pancreatic cancer. During that time I had many dreams about a smile. The smile didn't belong to a face it just hung there in mid air in my dreams. I knew it was related to my father some how so I hated the smile, but I kept dreaming of it. In my sketch pad I drew pictures of it and wrote about it. I hated it.

The night my father died 2 of my sisters called me about midnight to tell me to come to the nursing home because my father was about to die. I told them to call me again when it was all over. About 3 am I recieved another call from my sister saying my father was dead.

I got to the nursing home were I was told about the beautiful smile my dad had on his face when toke his last breath. I told my sisters I had already seen the smile and showed them my sketch pad (which was at the nursing home because we all took turns staying with him). My sketch pad had the dates when I drew or wrote something in it.

How do you explain the dreams?

So... the only possible way you can explain this is a god? Really? Your best and most logical explanation is the throw up an even bigger mystery?

In your situation I would simply say: "I do not know". Because that is the truth. I know mysteries are uncomfortable things, and knowing is always more comforting than not-knowing, but just ASSUMING it is the work of a god is grossly unreasonable. You would be more justified in assuming it is coincidence, because at least that answers the mystery completely and totally rather than throwing up any larger questions about where this 'god' came from.

Anyway, if it actually was a god, don't you think he would have better things to do- like stopping his beloved children from destroying each other- than giving some people mild psychic powers for fun?

Rkrause, for you to think that your answer would actually bring hope to one who see death as the cure for life.....Waste of time.
No admitted atheist wants to say... " God exist".

It wasn't an answer to anything, it was just one story about my personal evidence of a higher power that can't be explained by science.

[Rkrause]

Do you believe in "mild psychic powers"?

No, I do not have any good reason to.

So the vivid dreams of that smile was coincidence. Now if I told you events like this have happened throughout my life (just not written down in my journels) would you agree there is something supernatrual going on in my life? or all these events coincidences?