Was the massacre at Mountain Meadows the only massacre of Mo

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Witch of Hope

Was the massacre at Mountain Meadows the only massacre of Mo

Post #1

Post by Witch of Hope »

I went to an internet page of former members of the LDS yesterday. One of them has translated the books from J. & S. Tanner into German for years. Unlike the Tanners he is not a Christian but what I mention a "freethinker".
There was a link to a web page on this internet page which reported of further massacre, of which 26 people were the victim. Only two boys and a girl survived. All of them was cut the throat. Here now the report of the original web page:

http://www.blackhawkproductions.com/circleville.htm

I quote:
The captured Indians, 26 in all, showed a lot of unrest, then on the evening of the following day some of the Indians were able to cut themselves loose from their bindings and make a break. In the excitement the two Indians trying to free themselves were shot and killed by the guards. The remainder of the Indians were then taken to a nearby underground cellar and imprisoned there. The captured Indians knew they were going to be killed, they could feel it.
The settlers had another meeting and it was decided among them to kill the remaining captured Indian people. And so it was one by one they were led out of the cellar, 24 in all.
There were women, men, and children, and they were first struck from behind on the head to stun them, then their throats were cut and their bodies held to the ground until they bled to death. A terrified mother of two young boys and one girl, seven or eight years of age, told her crying children to run for their lives, and when the door was opened for the next victim to be killed the three made a break and forced their way past the guards and ran. In the dark of night the guards fired several shots at the three but were unable to hit them. One was shot in the
side but the bullet barely grazed his rib, not enough to stop him. It is safe to say the mother never knew if her children had managed to escape.
It was a cold-blooded execution. As each person sat in line waiting for their death to come. And what state of mind dose one have to be in to carry out such a heinous deed, resisting the cries and pleadings of each poor sole as they beg for their life to be spared? And what kind of person could run his blade across an innocent child's throat? It's reaches far beyond anyone's ability to fully comprehend the dark evil of that night in Circleville. (...)
When Brigham Young heard of the details of this heinous crime he was upset, but did nothing more than verbally chastise the murders. Later they were praised by other members for having done their dirty deed well. The saints at Circleville did all they could to cover up the tragic event, saying that they acted in self defense when the Indians attacked the guards. But in time the event leaked to the news, but curiously none of the aggressors were prosecuted. (...)
A day following the killings, two Indian boys and one girl were found hiding in a nearby cave, where taken to the nearest town Marysvale, Utah. Jackson Allred then took one of the boys, who may have been 8 or 9 years of age at the time,
to Spring City. There Allred spoke with a family who was interested in taking care of the boy, and said to them, he would trade a horse for the boy, otherwise he would just kill him. Allred agreed to the payment of a horse and a bushel of wheat, and the Monson family took the boy in and raised him. He was given the name David Munsen. The spelling of the last name was changed as the Monson family, I was told, didn't want their name in connection with an Indian.(...)
And members of the LDS had tried again to cover-up something. This draws himself by ecclesiastical history like a recurring theme: cover-up and the fault then giving the to the victims.

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Nickman
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Post #2

Post by Nickman »

I see where your going and would like to help but your last part was hard to understand. What is the question?

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Post #3

Post by phoenixrising »

I am familiar with the blackhawk productions website.

What the mormon church did was the same that other churches did.
They all saw [still do for the most part] themselves as god`s chosen people, called by [the Euro/American] god to exterminate all indian peoples they could not subjugate and dominate.
Of course, gawd [as Rush Limbaugh calls him - sorry, couldn`t resist] had given the Europeans all the lands on the American continents they were able to invade.
To the calvinist puritans, indian peoples were [still are to many today] the evil Canaanites.
So what are the chosen supposed to do with subhuman savages??
Same as they`re justified doing with any human not regarded as fully human.

It is the well hidden history of the Americas!

And the horror perpetrated upon indian peoples today rarely makes news in the AngloAmerican media!


phoenix

Witch of Hope

Post #4

Post by Witch of Hope »

Nickman wrote: I see where your going and would like to help but your last part was hard to understand. What is the question?
Whether the LDS has committed still more crimes which are hidden by the leaders of the LDS? I understand that that one of LDS, how many other churches of the time then; looked at the Indians as bad. This had often made the capitalist propaganda of the white "master race" enough clear. I by the way believe, that it is a connection between the dictatorship of the Nazis and their many crimes; and the crimes against the Indians (whether done by the state or the church). Indians also see this so:



It is with what I have a problem that the LDS cannot face her own dark sides in her ecclesiastical history. It lasted for decades, her participation in the Mountain Meadows massacres over a century, to the LDS.
E.g. did you knew; that there were some cases of castration in Utah at that time? Members who were disobedient in the eyes of the church leaders (e.g. because they did not want to break off an engagement); did they castrate as a punishment.

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The Ex-Mormon
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Post #5

Post by The Ex-Mormon »

Every member of the church knows that this massacre was committed by Ute Indians. And that some members had tried to prevent the worst. Please investigate a little more exactly the next time.

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Post #6

Post by Nickman »

The Mormon wrote: Every member of the church knows that this massacre was committed by Ute Indians. And that some members had tried to prevent the worst. Please investigate a little more exactly the next time.
So the Ute indians committed the massacre? Your lds im ex lds, you still listen to everything your church tells you as fact. They don't tell you the facts.

It was actually the Fancher party who were attacked by mormons and the Paiute indians. Yes mormons did attack a caravan of immigrants who posed no harm. Due to paranoia the mormons thought they were a threat.

The mormons attacked the wagon circle of the Fancher party for two days. After they were convinced to surrender by the attackers, they were seperated by gender, and women with small children. After surrendering the mormons ambushed them as was planned with help of the Paiute indians whom the mormons convinced to participate. You should get your facts straight about your own mormon history.

17 children survived out of the 120 people in the Fancher party. These 17 children were then adopted and converted to the lds faith. It is fact that out of paranoia and fear, the mormons killed innocent people. These immigrants came through the town of Cedar City and were refused essential goods by the mormons prior to their demise.

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Post #7

Post by The Ex-Mormon »

@ Nickman,

Independent scientists say that the Fancher party were attacking and murdering only by Indians. It was claimed by enemies of the church, that Brigham Young gave the order for the massacre. There was no proof for it. Some members of my church, among this an agent for Indian affairs, tried to prevent the worst. But the Indians were so bloodthirsty; that they did not listen to the members of my church.
This is fact. What you have told, not!

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Post #8

Post by Nickman »

The Mormon wrote: @ Nickman,

Independent scientists say that the Fancher party were attacking and murdering only by Indians. It was claimed by enemies of the church, that Brigham Young gave the order for the massacre. There was no proof for it. Some members of my church, among this an agent for Indian affairs, tried to prevent the worst. But the Indians were so bloodthirsty; that they did not listen to the members of my church.
This is fact. What you have told, not!
What I wrote came from a historical journal. Please provide evidence from independent scientist. Most independent scientists are not peer-reviewed and there is a reason why they are independent.

Here is a link to an  peer reviewed source that provides archaeological evidence that the mormons did infact kill innocent people. The evidence confirms earlier statements about the massacre by people involved or in that time period. Stop listening to your church who tried to cover it up as the article also shows.The bones of 28 individuals from the massacre site were dug up when a monument was being dug on the site. When archaeologists confirmed the truth told previously, the governor rushed to get the bones back in the ground and the issue hushed. These are facts. The lds church cant man up, they never have nevr will. If they could I would have more respect for the organization.

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Post #9

Post by The Ex-Mormon »

Nickman wrote:
The Mormon wrote: @ Nickman,

Independent scientists say that the Fancher party were attacking and murdering only by Indians. It was claimed by enemies of the church, that Brigham Young gave the order for the massacre. There was no proof for it. Some members of my church, among this an agent for Indian affairs, tried to prevent the worst. But the Indians were so bloodthirsty; that they did not listen to the members of my church.
This is fact. What you have told, not!
What I wrote came from a historical journal. Please provide evidence from independent scientist. Most independent scientists are not peer-reviewed and there is a reason why they are independent.
So the Fancher party was killed by whites? From members of my church? The bones of the dead bodies shall cover this? Hahaha! Heard never a little of it that Indians also had guns and pistols? This one had bought, exchanged or stolen? This prooved nothing at all.
And John D. Lee?
This was a traitor and murderer. He is so credible like Richard Nixon or Barack Obama!

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Post #10

Post by Nickman »

The Mormon wrote:
Nickman wrote:
The Mormon wrote: @ Nickman,

Independent scientists say that the Fancher party were attacking and murdering only by Indians. It was claimed by enemies of the church, that Brigham Young gave the order for the massacre. There was no proof for it. Some members of my church, among this an agent for Indian affairs, tried to prevent the worst. But the Indians were so bloodthirsty; that they did not listen to the members of my church.
This is fact. What you have told, not!
What I wrote came from a historical journal. Please provide evidence from independent scientist. Most independent scientists are not peer-reviewed and there is a reason why they are independent.
So the Fancher party was killed by whites? From members of my church? The bones of the dead bodies shall cover this? Hahaha! Heard never a little of it that Indians also had guns and pistols? This one had bought, exchanged or stolen? This prooved nothing at all.
And John D. Lee?
This was a traitor and murderer. He is so credible like Richard Nixon or Barack Obama!
You have two evidences against you. First you have original reports and second you have archaeological evidence showing that these reports were true. Did you read the whole article or just the parts you felt necessary? The mormon church was involved without a doubt. The church has also suppressed information.

In the end you will never believe facts, only what your church says because they would never say anything thats not true :shock:

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