Can Jesus Christ can be shown to be the Son of God

[McCulloch]

I believe that the following facets of my faith can be demonstrated by logical deduction

3. Jesus Christ is the Son of God

Can Jesus Christ can be shown to be the Son of God by logical deduction?

[Divine Insight]

Can Jesus Christ can be shown to be the Son of God by logical deduction?

Logical deductions from what?

If you're going to deduce things based on claims made in the biblical stories, then sure, it's easy to make a "logical deduction" that Jesus was the Son of God, because these stories provide "evidence" for this.

1. Angels appeared to Mary informing her that God was going to use her to mother his child.
2. She was also a virgin, therefore her pregnancy had to have been a miracle.
3. Jesus could walk on water and perform all sorts of healing miracles, not to mention raising people from the dead.
4. Jesus cast out demons from people, therefore he could not have been the Son of Satan.
5. God actually spoke from a cloud verifying that Jesus was indeed his Son. (that should clinch it right there)
6. After Jesus was crucified he rose from the dead. Clearly something that a mere mortal man would never be able to accomplish.
7. Later he ascended to heaven taking his physical body with him. Did you ever see a mortal man do that?

There can be no doubt that based on all this evidence the only "logical deduction" is that Jesus could only have been the Son of God. No other conclusion is possible.

[kayky]

The problem with thinking that the Gospels are evidence of anything is the fact that they were not written to be literal biographies of Jesus. They contain many mythic and allegorical elements. Jesus himself never claimed to be the only begotten son of God. This label was placed on him long after his death.

[Divine Insight]

The problem with thinking that the Gospels are evidence of anything is the fact that they were not written to be literal biographies of Jesus. They contain many mythic and allegorical elements. Jesus himself never claimed to be the only begotten son of God. This label was placed on him long after his death.

I agree.

The gospels themselves are nothing more than hearsay rumors that were obviously written long after Jesus had lived and died (assuming a person who sparked these rumors about a man named Jesus even actually existed).

My previous post was not a "logical argument" that Jesus was the Son of God. It was merely an example of how such a "logical deduction" could be made give the biblical rumors as "premises" from which to make such deductions.

The question then is not one of "logical deduction" but rather the question is whether or not the premises that are being used to make those "deductions" are credible premises.

Logic has little to do with what a person accepts as initial information from which to begin to make "logical deductions".

You suggest that the contents of the Bible contain many mythical and allegorical elements. I would agree. In fact, there are many people who take the stance that they are nothing more than superstitious gossip. I tend to be among those who believe the latter.

The original quote offered in the OP states the following:

I believe that the following facets of my faith can be demonstrated by logical deduction

Logical deduction from what?

Outside of the Biblical fables there is absolutely no reason to believe that Jesus even existed much less that he was the son of God.

Therefore if jimvansage believes that he can logically deduce that Jesus was the Son of God, he must necessarily be making deductions based upon the biblical fables to begin with.

I personally would even take that a position against that in debate. I hold that even within the biblical fables themselves it can be shown that Jesus could not possibly have been the Son of the God of Abraham. It doesn't even hold water within the context of the fables, IMHO.

What I had given here in my original post to this thread was truly superficial. After all, we all know that the New Testament fables proclaim Jesus to be the Only Begotten Son of God. That's a given. It's right there in the text.

I tend to agree with the Jews that based on the Old Testament Jesus could not possibly have been the promised messiah. Jesus was never handed the throne of King David. So the idea that Jesus could have been "The Christ" doesn't work.

It's crystal clear, I think (as do the Jews)

Isaac Newton also came to this same conclusion.

It would be interesting to hear why jimvansage thinks he can logically "deduce" that Jesus was the Son of God.

I feel confident that I'm not going to be impressed with his reasons because I've been through this far too many times. I have no doubt that I would find extremely flaws in ever bit of "evidence" that he might point to.

I'd debate with him on that issue if he likes. But he better be prepared for the fact that I'm not going to accept biblical myths as "Gospels Truths".

That's faith. That's not LOGIC.

[jimvansage]

Divine Insight - If I accept what you say is true, is it faith or logic?

It seems one would need to determine if Jesus is a historical figure before claiming that He be the son of God, but that's two debates it would seem.

I would much rather debate the existence of God or the Divine Inspiration of the Bible, but eventually would like to tackle this debate as well.

[jimvansage]

I have 100 boxes. You open fifty of them and find that the other fifty are locked.
How can you determine if the fifty locked boxes are empty or contain something?

[1213]

I believe that the following facets of my faith can be demonstrated by logical deduction

3. Jesus Christ is the Son of God

Can Jesus Christ can be shown to be the Son of God by logical deduction?

In this case Son of God should be defined first.

Jesus teaches that Son of God is he who makes Gods works (John 10:34-38). If Jesus made them, as Bible tells, then Jesus is Son of God. But is it true what Bible tells? I dont know how to prove it so that you wouldnt have any way to deny it.

[McCulloch]

I believe that the following facets of my faith can be demonstrated by logical deduction

3. Jesus Christ is the Son of God

Can Jesus Christ can be shown to be the Son of God by logical deduction?

In this case Son of God should be defined first.

Jesus teaches that Son of God is he who makes Gods works (John 10:34-38). If Jesus made them, as Bible tells, then Jesus is Son of God. But is it true what Bible tells? I dont know how to prove it so that you wouldnt have any way to deny it.

In a way, everyone who calls God Father is a son (or daughter) of God. Do you think that is the sense that was meant by JimSavage?

[jimvansage]

"Son of God" is a religious title...I mean to prove that Jesus Christ is Deity, that He is God (or more accurately God-man) specifically.

[catalyst]

I have 100 boxes. You open fifty of them and find that the other fifty are locked.
How can you determine if the fifty locked boxes are empty or contain something?

Logic dictates that all boxes would have something in them, even if that something was air. As such none of them are empty.

What your box example has to do with the OP though, I am not sure.

---------------------------------

Divine Insight.

Seems you and I are on at the very least, a similar page.

Logical deduction as to the Jesus of Nazareth character being the "Son Of God" or the Messiah as per prophecy, is not possible and in fact, it points to quite the contrary, if the writings from the Hebrew Bible are claimed to "prove" anything. Unfortunately though, the believers that claim that Jesus of Nazareth is god incarnate, only have biblical reference to go by. There is nothing else to support the character.

One thing that should be pointed out here is that NONE of the prophecies that are claimed to relate To "Jesus" actually do at all.

For starters the Messiah prophecised in the Hebrew Bible, will not, nor need to show any miracle. IF some were to perceive something he did as being supposedly "miraculous", then it would not have to be something that defies logic. As such, claims of "walking on water", turning "water to wine", even being born of "supernatural" parentage from the paternal side and "virgin" as the maternal, rules OUT the Jesus of Nazareth character before he even "came from the stalls" (playful pun there taking into account the whole stable story).

Secondly, the King Messiah will be born of 2 HUMAN BEINGS being his parents and through natural causes .He will be by unbroken patrilineal descent the undisputed heir of King David. - What is interesting is, the writers of the alleged lineage in the NT can't even get their "facts" right.

Third. He will be KNOWN as the unchallenged King of the Jews world wide. The fact that the vast majority of Jews reject the Jesus of Nazareth character, shows clearly that his Messiah "status" is in fact challenged.

There are a multitude of other points to be made but the above will suffice for now,. In fact, I challenge ANY christian to read the Hebrew Bible with the christian goggles off, and you will see clearly that NONE of the prophecies actually relate to him at all.

As such, I cannot see how jimvansage can make any claim of "Jesus of Nazareth" being Christ by ANY logical deduction.

Catalyst.