How You Can Prove the Bible Wrong

[Danmark]

Romans 1:28-31: (ESV)
And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless.

Doesn't this mean that if we do not believe in God, we will act as described?
And if so, can atheists not disprove this passage simply by being kind, considerate, and loving; refraining from the long list of evils above?

Is it fair to say the standard is not too high to reach; that all we have to do is meet or exceed the performance of the average Christian?

[Tex]

Divineinsight:

He also rejected "hate thy enemy" and taught people to love their enemies.

Again...Where in the 10 commandments does it say to "hate your enemy"
You are the one who is all over the place.

[Tex]

With Divine insight....It's: this never happened, that was a lie, I'm like Jesus , Jesus got his teaching from Budda....WHERE DO YOU COME UP WITH THIS STUFF

Anyway...believe as you wish.

[Tex]

Luke 22
39 Jesus went out as usual to the Mount of Olives, and his disciples followed him. 40 On reaching the place, he said to them, Pray that you will not fall into temptation. 41 He withdrew about a stones throw beyond them, knelt down and prayed, 42 Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done. 43 An angel from heaven appeared to him and strengthened him. 44 And being in anguish, he prayed more earnestly, and his sweat was like drops of blood falling to the ground.[c]

Tex: Here....Now you can hate the monster in the NT. Is that better for you.

Tex, you quote scripture then talk about hating monsters in the New Testament. What the foolscap are you talking about?

Divine hates the God of the OT, because he didn't like his behaviors. But said the NT was all flower and roses. Big surprise....Its not all flower and roses. Now he can hate the so called fictional characters in the NT also. You see, if you call the characters fictional. Then if you hate them, you are not really hatting them. Because how can you hate what is not real. That a good one, I will have to use it some time.

[Danmark]

Luke 22
39 Jesus went out as usual to the Mount of Olives, and his disciples followed him. 40 On reaching the place, he said to them, Pray that you will not fall into temptation. 41 He withdrew about a stones throw beyond them, knelt down and prayed, 42 Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done. 43 An angel from heaven appeared to him and strengthened him. 44 And being in anguish, he prayed more earnestly, and his sweat was like drops of blood falling to the ground.[c]

Tex: Here....Now you can hate the monster in the NT. Is that better for you.

Tex, you quote scripture then talk about hating monsters in the New Testament. What the foolscap are you talking about?

Divine hates the God of the OT, because he didn't like his behaviors. But said the NT was all flower and roses. Big surprise....Its not all flower and roses. Now he can hate the so called fictional characters in the NT also. You see, if you call the characters fictional. Then if you hate them, you are not really hatting them. Because how can you hate what is not real. That a good one, I will have to use it some time.

Tex, I'm sure you don't deny the image of the god in the old testament is different from the example Jesus shows, do you?

The OT god is frequently a tribal god who justifies killing cultures, women, children so his chosen people can take over their land. God tests Abraham by asking him to kill his son.

Then we have Jesus who teaches us to love our enemies, to do good to those who persecute us; that everyone is our neighbor; that if our enemy asks us to go with him one mile, we should go two. Regardless of whether these stories are fiction, can you not agree that the Jesus of the NT presents a very different picture than the God of the Old?

[bobingersoll]

Luke 22
39 Jesus went out as usual to the Mount of Olives, and his disciples followed him. 40 On reaching the place, he said to them, Pray that you will not fall into temptation. 41 He withdrew about a stones throw beyond them, knelt down and prayed, 42 Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done. 43 An angel from heaven appeared to him and strengthened him. 44 And being in anguish, he prayed more earnestly, and his sweat was like drops of blood falling to the ground.[c]

Tex: Here....Now you can hate the monster in the NT. Is that better for you.

Tex, you quote scripture then talk about hating monsters in the New Testament. What the foolscap are you talking about?

Divine hates the God of the OT, because he didn't like his behaviors. But said the NT was all flower and roses. Big surprise....Its not all flower and roses. Now he can hate the so called fictional characters in the NT also. You see, if you call the characters fictional. Then if you hate them, you are not really hatting them. Because how can you hate what is not real. That a good one, I will have to use it some time.

Tex, I'm sure you don't deny the image of the god in the old testament is different from the example Jesus shows, do you?

The OT god is frequently a tribal god who justifies killing cultures, women, children so his chosen people can take over their land. God tests Abraham by asking him to kill his son.

Then we have Jesus who teaches us to love our enemies, to do good to those who persecute us; that everyone is our neighbor; that if our enemy asks us to go with him one mile, we should go two. Regardless of whether these stories are fiction, can you not agree that the Jesus of the NT presents a very different picture than the God of the Old?

Isn't the reason the OT God and the NT Jesus are so different in their...philosophy?, is because they are the result of to different religions? I would think that the OT is a result of the Hebrew/Jewish faith and the NT is a result of the Jewish/Christian faith. Some similarities but a lot of diferences.

[JoeyKnothead]

From Post 63:

Because how can you hate what is not real.

In the same way you love what is not real.

Only with less of the one, and more of the other.

[AdHoc]

Romans 1:28-31: (ESV)
And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless.

Doesn't this mean that if we do not believe in God, we will act as described?
And if so, can atheists not disprove this passage simply by being kind, considerate, and loving; refraining from the long list of evils above?

This is a thought-provoking argument. At first glance I would say yes you may well disprove it as you suggest.

Is it fair to say the standard is not too high to reach; that all we have to do is meet or exceed the performance of the average Christian?

I wish you would set your sights a little higher. The mean Christian performance is not entirely unlike the scripture you have quoted above.

I took the liberty of reading the rest of Romans 1. The people Paul is describing are not atheists but people who believe in God. "...men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousnes because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them." v 18,19

and

v 21 "because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened."

At the risk of sounding cliche... some of the most generous people I know are atheists or at least not christian and some of the most selfish profess to be christians. But in response to your OP IMO the strongest argument against it is the context. Which I submit is clearly not referencing atheists but people of faith.

[Danmark]

Romans 1:28-31: (ESV)
And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless.

Doesn't this mean that if we do not believe in God, we will act as described?
And if so, can atheists not disprove this passage simply by being kind, considerate, and loving; refraining from the long list of evils above?

This is a thought-provoking argument. At first glance I would say yes you may well disprove it as you suggest.

Is it fair to say the standard is not too high to reach; that all we have to do is meet or exceed the performance of the average Christian?

I wish you would set your sights a little higher. The mean Christian performance is not entirely unlike the scripture you have quoted above....

I agree. We should set our sights higher. We probably all will live longer as well if we have more patience and love, less judging and anger.