Should people "shack-up" before marriage?

[Nickman]

I personally think that when two adults shack-up prior to marriage, they have a better chance of staying married and avoid divorce. This I have concluded from my own logic and experience. If we get to know a person prior to marriage on that level we are able to make a better decision about whether or not we can be married to that person. If we don't shack-up we won't be able to see how that person truly is in that setting. Christians tend to be against shacking-up which I feel has led to the statistics showing that they are more susceptible to divorce than atheists who do tend to shack-up.

What do you say? Should we shack up? Is it beneficial? If not why not?

P.S. Just because "god said so" is not a good answer. Please provide why it is harmful or wrong and the potential problem it could cause.

[Nickman]

Which part of sensible courtship is not careful, logical, reasonable and smart? Why do you actually have to live together before knowing whether you are compatible? That doesn't sound very smart to me.

Living together gives each person in the relationship a proper understanding of who you are courting. There are many things you learn about a person when under the same roof, that you cannot learn if you don't. A perfect example, is their sleeping habits, how they coexist with other people as a roommate, how tolerant they are of other people in their privacy and the like. How much do you know about a person when they are behind closed doors? You learn if they are violent. Most people exhibit an good outward image but behind closed doors, when they are mad, they can become a different person. I know couples who pretend to be such a great couple and save face when out amongst friends but when they are at home and in an argument the police have been called many times. These types of things you will never know unles you are under the same roof.

What is the reason behind the Ten Commandments and the Mosaic law?

Why are you separating the two? Both are the same. The ten commandments are part of the 613 commands given by god to Moses (supposedly given by god). The Law of Moses is the social guideline for the community. Not a very good one and in a lot of places down right immoral. I shouldn't use guideline though because that implies that they don't have to be followed if you don't want to. The law of Moses was mandatory.

What are you getting at?

[PREEST]

The only thing you need to make a marriage work is commitment. If you shack up with someone you are saying "I think I love you but let's see. If you do well (according to my opinion of how you should be), I promise to love you the rest of my life. If not I'm outta here."

Before I married my wife we had bought a house that she lived in and we spent a lot of time together but we never lived together until after we were married. We courted about 2 years. There was no question that I loved her, and we have been married 22 years now.

I think the opposite of what you are saying; moving in together to see if you really love each other indicates a lack of commitment to each other which will eventually end in a break up.

Can I say moses that I find some of your posts incredibly ignorant. Just because you have your views doesn't mean it's the same for everybody. Because I live with my Girl friend, we love each other so much, we wanted to be closer together but don't want to have to feel that we 'should marry in order to live together'. I don't need a piece of paper and a silly ceremony for people to know I love my girl so much. Marriage will happen when it suits us, not when we suit marriage. I know her far better now and have come so much closer to her since living with her, we connect on the most intimate levels.

As for moving in together being a sign of a lack of commitment. I actually find that offensive. You just stated that because I live with my girl friend, I am somehow less committed to her than some christian who thinks we have to wait until marriage. Nonsense. We talked about it and made the decision we thought was best for us. Nothing to do with not being committed to each other. Please leave you ignorance out of it. Don't comment on things you know nothing about.
We make all our decisions, we have to think and make the decision together that WE think is best. Your decisions are already predetermined by god, meaning you don't have the type of intimacy a couple that don't believe in god have. A christian's intimacy is in their god, while our intimacy is with each other.

If people want to live together to see if they will be compatible, then that's fine. Christians are so frustratingly ignorant and judgmental.

Our relationship is ours and of us, we make our decisions together. Your relationship is defined by god, you do what he wants for you. To me, this is no commitment, it's following orders.

[Nickman]

I remember a quote (kind of) that basically said that atheists are far better at marriage and the statistics show because we are not sleeping with someone else while married to our spouses. The Christians are sleeping with Jesus at the same time they are married to their spouse. What Jesus says always comes first before your husband/wife. Take Jesus out of from between you and your spouse and you will be able to have a more fulfilling relationship.

Jesus even says that if your mother, father, husband, wife or any family member keeps you from obeying him that you need to cut them off.

I think that the spouse should come first.

[Moses Yoder]

The only thing you need to make a marriage work is commitment. If you shack up with someone you are saying "I think I love you but let's see. If you do well (according to my opinion of how you should be), I promise to love you the rest of my life. If not I'm outta here."

Before I married my wife we had bought a house that she lived in and we spent a lot of time together but we never lived together until after we were married. We courted about 2 years. There was no question that I loved her, and we have been married 22 years now.

I think the opposite of what you are saying; moving in together to see if you really love each other indicates a lack of commitment to each other which will eventually end in a break up.

Can I say moses that I find some of your posts incredibly ignorant. Just because you have your views doesn't mean it's the same for everybody. Because I live with my Girl friend, we love each other so much, we wanted to be closer together but don't want to have to feel that we 'should marry in order to live together'. I don't need a piece of paper and a silly ceremony for people to know I love my girl so much. Marriage will happen when it suits us, not when we suit marriage. I know her far better now and have come so much closer to her since living with her, we connect on the most intimate levels.

As for moving in together being a sign of a lack of commitment. I actually find that offensive. You just stated that because I live with my girl friend, I am somehow less committed to her than some christian who thinks we have to wait until marriage. Nonsense. We talked about it and made the decision we thought was best for us. Nothing to do with not being committed to each other. Please leave you ignorance out of it. Don't comment on things you know nothing about.
We make all our decisions, we have to think and make the decision together that WE think is best. Your decisions are already predetermined by god, meaning you don't have the type of intimacy a couple that don't believe in god have. A christian's intimacy is in their god, while our intimacy is with each other.

If people want to live together to see if they will be compatible, then that's fine. Christians are so frustratingly ignorant and judgmental.

Our relationship is ours and of us, we make our decisions together. Your relationship is defined by god, you do what he wants for you. To me, this is no commitment, it's following orders.

Please post evidence that my thoughts are ignorant. I will accept an analysis of my original post by an unbiased degreed psychologist. If you do not post viable accepted evidence by 2:00 pm today, I will report your post as a personal attack. My posts are all based on the experience I have had in 45 years of living; they are not ignorant. They may be stupid, which can't be fixed. Ignorance is easy to fix. I think maybe you disagree with my thoughts and have a different viewpoint and therefore view my thoughts as ignorant. Have you purchased a license and promised before a number of witnesses to love your girlfriend and her only for the rest of your life? No, of course not; that takes commitment. As it stands right now you have a zero investment in your relationship, and could jump out at the drop of a hat. I am not going to change my view just because yours is different and you use threats of beholding me as ignorant. By the way, thanks for saying only some of my posts are ignorant; it would be nice if you provided a list so I can examine my ideals.

[Moses Yoder]

Which part of sensible courtship is not careful, logical, reasonable and smart? Why do you actually have to live together before knowing whether you are compatible? That doesn't sound very smart to me.

Living together gives each person in the relationship a proper understanding of who you are courting. There are many things you learn about a person when under the same roof, that you cannot learn if you don't. A perfect example, is their sleeping habits, how they coexist with other people as a roommate, how tolerant they are of other people in their privacy and the like. How much do you know about a person when they are behind closed doors? You learn if they are violent. Most people exhibit an good outward image but behind closed doors, when they are mad, they can become a different person. I know couples who pretend to be such a great couple and save face when out amongst friends but when they are at home and in an argument the police have been called many times. These types of things you will never know unles you are under the same roof.

What is the reason behind the Ten Commandments and the Mosaic law?

Why are you separating the two? Both are the same. The ten commandments are part of the 613 commands given by god to Moses (supposedly given by god). The Law of Moses is the social guideline for the community. Not a very good one and in a lot of places down right immoral. I shouldn't use guideline though because that implies that they don't have to be followed if you don't want to. The law of Moses was mandatory.

What are you getting at?

The Mosaic law, including the ten commandments, was given to the descendants of Abraham for their own good. If they lived by the law they would have long, happy, productive lives. If not, then not.

I have found a cure for AIDS and all other sexually transmitted diseases. It is as follows; wait to have sex until after marriage, then only have sex with the spouse you married.

Page 2, a sexual relationship brings an emotional attachment. When you say "shack up" you are implying an ongoing sexual relationship. So here are two people emotionally attached for life. In general the woman is more so than the man, but not always. So the man come home one day and says "Sorry honey, you just don't fit the bill, see ya", and kicks her out the door of his house. What are the drawbacks of cohabitation? Are there any? If not, why do we have marriage? If man evolved, why did marriage evolve along with him? If God prefers marriage, why does He?

Page 3, there are many things about my wife I don't like. She has to have her feet covered with a sheet to sleep and I like mine uncovered. She is a terrible housewife so far as cleaning the house. She is very strong willed, which is not what I was raised with although I have come to admire it. For instance many times I will suggest she do things my way and she will flat refuse to and does them her way (she is doing one of these things this morning while I am at the office, probably spending several thousand dollars without even the benefit of my input because she refused to wait until later this afternoon.) I could write a very long list. If I had moved in with her I probably would have moved back out in short order. On the other hand, I love her. Since I am committed to our relationship and love her, I actually find these little irritations endearing and find them easy to ignore and am perfectly happy where I am at. If I had shacked up with her before hand I would have never gotten to know who she truly was; I would never have looked past the minor irritations.

[PREEST]

The only thing you need to make a marriage work is commitment. If you shack up with someone you are saying "I think I love you but let's see. If you do well (according to my opinion of how you should be), I promise to love you the rest of my life. If not I'm outta here."

Before I married my wife we had bought a house that she lived in and we spent a lot of time together but we never lived together until after we were married. We courted about 2 years. There was no question that I loved her, and we have been married 22 years now.

I think the opposite of what you are saying; moving in together to see if you really love each other indicates a lack of commitment to each other which will eventually end in a break up.

Can I say moses that I find some of your posts incredibly ignorant. Just because you have your views doesn't mean it's the same for everybody. Because I live with my Girl friend, we love each other so much, we wanted to be closer together but don't want to have to feel that we 'should marry in order to live together'. I don't need a piece of paper and a silly ceremony for people to know I love my girl so much. Marriage will happen when it suits us, not when we suit marriage. I know her far better now and have come so much closer to her since living with her, we connect on the most intimate levels.

As for moving in together being a sign of a lack of commitment. I actually find that offensive. You just stated that because I live with my girl friend, I am somehow less committed to her than some christian who thinks we have to wait until marriage. Nonsense. We talked about it and made the decision we thought was best for us. Nothing to do with not being committed to each other. Please leave you ignorance out of it. Don't comment on things you know nothing about.
We make all our decisions, we have to think and make the decision together that WE think is best. Your decisions are already predetermined by god, meaning you don't have the type of intimacy a couple that don't believe in god have. A christian's intimacy is in their god, while our intimacy is with each other.

If people want to live together to see if they will be compatible, then that's fine. Christians are so frustratingly ignorant and judgmental.

Our relationship is ours and of us, we make our decisions together. Your relationship is defined by god, you do what he wants for you. To me, this is no commitment, it's following orders.

Please post evidence that my thoughts are ignorant. I will accept an analysis of my original post by an unbiased degreed psychologist. If you do not post viable accepted evidence by 2:00 pm today, I will report your post as a personal attack. My posts are all based on the experience I have had in 45 years of living; they are not ignorant. They may be stupid, which can't be fixed. Ignorance is easy to fix. I think maybe you disagree with my thoughts and have a different viewpoint and therefore view my thoughts as ignorant. Have you purchased a license and promised before a number of witnesses to love your girlfriend and her only for the rest of your life? No, of course not; that takes commitment. As it stands right now you have a zero investment in your relationship, and could jump out at the drop of a hat. I am not going to change my view just because yours is different and you use threats of beholding me as ignorant. By the way, thanks for saying only some of my posts are ignorant; it would be nice if you provided a list so I can examine my ideals.

"If you shack up with someone you are saying "I think I love you but let's see. If you do well (according to my opinion of how you should be), I promise to love you the rest of my life. If not I'm outta here."

I find this offensive because you insinuate that people like myself don't really love our partners. Get this, I'm not christian and marriage is only a tradition. You say I have to conform to the christian idea and this tradition of marriage, and if I don't then I don't really love my girl friend and I'm uncommitted. Well, you are committed to a god your can't prove exists before your wife who you KNOW is real, this is not commitment. I love her without doubt and we are already planning to marry, we know that living together first is the best option for us.
It is ignorant to say that because people decide for themselves, not what god decides, to live together that they are uncommitted. I am offended by that remark. You know nothing about me, you don't know how much I love my girlfriend. Moving in with her was my full commitment to her, that I love her and want to share with her all that I do. Yes you have 45 years experience, that's great, but that's a christian experience.

[Moses Yoder]

I remember a quote (kind of) that basically said that atheists are far better at marriage and the statistics show because we are not sleeping with someone else while married to our spouses. The Christians are sleeping with Jesus at the same time they are married to their spouse. What Jesus says always comes first before your husband/wife. Take Jesus out of from between you and your spouse and you will be able to have a more fulfilling relationship.

Jesus even says that if your mother, father, husband, wife or any family member keeps you from obeying him that you need to cut them off.

I think that the spouse should come first.

Please post evidence that atheists are able to have more fulfilling relationships.

[Moses Yoder]

The only thing you need to make a marriage work is commitment. If you shack up with someone you are saying "I think I love you but let's see. If you do well (according to my opinion of how you should be), I promise to love you the rest of my life. If not I'm outta here."

Before I married my wife we had bought a house that she lived in and we spent a lot of time together but we never lived together until after we were married. We courted about 2 years. There was no question that I loved her, and we have been married 22 years now.

I think the opposite of what you are saying; moving in together to see if you really love each other indicates a lack of commitment to each other which will eventually end in a break up.

Can I say moses that I find some of your posts incredibly ignorant. Just because you have your views doesn't mean it's the same for everybody. Because I live with my Girl friend, we love each other so much, we wanted to be closer together but don't want to have to feel that we 'should marry in order to live together'. I don't need a piece of paper and a silly ceremony for people to know I love my girl so much. Marriage will happen when it suits us, not when we suit marriage. I know her far better now and have come so much closer to her since living with her, we connect on the most intimate levels.

As for moving in together being a sign of a lack of commitment. I actually find that offensive. You just stated that because I live with my girl friend, I am somehow less committed to her than some christian who thinks we have to wait until marriage. Nonsense. We talked about it and made the decision we thought was best for us. Nothing to do with not being committed to each other. Please leave you ignorance out of it. Don't comment on things you know nothing about.
We make all our decisions, we have to think and make the decision together that WE think is best. Your decisions are already predetermined by god, meaning you don't have the type of intimacy a couple that don't believe in god have. A christian's intimacy is in their god, while our intimacy is with each other.

If people want to live together to see if they will be compatible, then that's fine. Christians are so frustratingly ignorant and judgmental.

Our relationship is ours and of us, we make our decisions together. Your relationship is defined by god, you do what he wants for you. To me, this is no commitment, it's following orders.

Please post evidence that my thoughts are ignorant. I will accept an analysis of my original post by an unbiased degreed psychologist. If you do not post viable accepted evidence by 2:00 pm today, I will report your post as a personal attack. My posts are all based on the experience I have had in 45 years of living; they are not ignorant. They may be stupid, which can't be fixed. Ignorance is easy to fix. I think maybe you disagree with my thoughts and have a different viewpoint and therefore view my thoughts as ignorant. Have you purchased a license and promised before a number of witnesses to love your girlfriend and her only for the rest of your life? No, of course not; that takes commitment. As it stands right now you have a zero investment in your relationship, and could jump out at the drop of a hat. I am not going to change my view just because yours is different and you use threats of beholding me as ignorant. By the way, thanks for saying only some of my posts are ignorant; it would be nice if you provided a list so I can examine my ideals.

"If you shack up with someone you are saying "I think I love you but let's see. If you do well (according to my opinion of how you should be), I promise to love you the rest of my life. If not I'm outta here."

I find this offensive because you insinuate that people like myself don't really love our partners. Get this, I'm not christian and marriage is only a tradition. You say I have to conform to the christian idea and this tradition of marriage, and if I don't then I don't really love my girl friend and I'm uncommitted. Well, you are committed to a god your can't prove exists before your wife who you KNOW is real, this is not commitment. I love her without doubt and we are already planning to marry, we know that living together first is the best option for us.
It is ignorant to say that because people decide for themselves, not what god decides, to live together that they are uncommitted. I am offended by that remark. You know nothing about me, you don't know how much I love my girlfriend. Moving in with her was my full commitment to her, that I love her and want to share with her all that I do. Yes you have 45 years experience, that's great, but that's a christian experience.

You find my opinion offensive, then call me "incredibly ignorant". How do you think I felt when I read that? I don't find your views offensive, although they are very different from mine. Essentially you are stating that my life is a waste of breath when you say my God doesn't exist. I choose not to be offended, realizing youa re simply misled.

I would like an honest opinion on this question as stated; Which of the two following sentences indicates more commitment? A) "Honey, why don't we move in together and live with each other a while?" B) "Honey, here is a ring to symbolize my undying love for you; I would like to have a ceremony where I state that I will only love you for the rest of my life, in front of a number of witnesses; would you be my wife?"

[PREEST]

The only thing you need to make a marriage work is commitment. If you shack up with someone you are saying "I think I love you but let's see. If you do well (according to my opinion of how you should be), I promise to love you the rest of my life. If not I'm outta here."

Before I married my wife we had bought a house that she lived in and we spent a lot of time together but we never lived together until after we were married. We courted about 2 years. There was no question that I loved her, and we have been married 22 years now.

I think the opposite of what you are saying; moving in together to see if you really love each other indicates a lack of commitment to each other which will eventually end in a break up.

Can I say moses that I find some of your posts incredibly ignorant. Just because you have your views doesn't mean it's the same for everybody. Because I live with my Girl friend, we love each other so much, we wanted to be closer together but don't want to have to feel that we 'should marry in order to live together'. I don't need a piece of paper and a silly ceremony for people to know I love my girl so much. Marriage will happen when it suits us, not when we suit marriage. I know her far better now and have come so much closer to her since living with her, we connect on the most intimate levels.

As for moving in together being a sign of a lack of commitment. I actually find that offensive. You just stated that because I live with my girl friend, I am somehow less committed to her than some christian who thinks we have to wait until marriage. Nonsense. We talked about it and made the decision we thought was best for us. Nothing to do with not being committed to each other. Please leave you ignorance out of it. Don't comment on things you know nothing about.
We make all our decisions, we have to think and make the decision together that WE think is best. Your decisions are already predetermined by god, meaning you don't have the type of intimacy a couple that don't believe in god have. A christian's intimacy is in their god, while our intimacy is with each other.

If people want to live together to see if they will be compatible, then that's fine. Christians are so frustratingly ignorant and judgmental.

Our relationship is ours and of us, we make our decisions together. Your relationship is defined by god, you do what he wants for you. To me, this is no commitment, it's following orders.

Please post evidence that my thoughts are ignorant. I will accept an analysis of my original post by an unbiased degreed psychologist. If you do not post viable accepted evidence by 2:00 pm today, I will report your post as a personal attack. My posts are all based on the experience I have had in 45 years of living; they are not ignorant. They may be stupid, which can't be fixed. Ignorance is easy to fix. I think maybe you disagree with my thoughts and have a different viewpoint and therefore view my thoughts as ignorant. Have you purchased a license and promised before a number of witnesses to love your girlfriend and her only for the rest of your life? No, of course not; that takes commitment. As it stands right now you have a zero investment in your relationship, and could jump out at the drop of a hat. I am not going to change my view just because yours is different and you use threats of beholding me as ignorant. By the way, thanks for saying only some of my posts are ignorant; it would be nice if you provided a list so I can examine my ideals.

"If you shack up with someone you are saying "I think I love you but let's see. If you do well (according to my opinion of how you should be), I promise to love you the rest of my life. If not I'm outta here."

I find this offensive because you insinuate that people like myself don't really love our partners. Get this, I'm not christian and marriage is only a tradition. You say I have to conform to the christian idea and this tradition of marriage, and if I don't then I don't really love my girl friend and I'm uncommitted. Well, you are committed to a god your can't prove exists before your wife who you KNOW is real, this is not commitment. I love her without doubt and we are already planning to marry, we know that living together first is the best option for us.
It is ignorant to say that because people decide for themselves, not what god decides, to live together that they are uncommitted. I am offended by that remark. You know nothing about me, you don't know how much I love my girlfriend. Moving in with her was my full commitment to her, that I love her and want to share with her all that I do. Yes you have 45 years experience, that's great, but that's a christian experience.

You find my opinion offensive, then call me "incredibly ignorant". How do you think I felt when I read that? I don't find your views offensive, although they are very different from mine. Essentially you are stating that my life is a waste of breath when you say my God doesn't exist. I choose not to be offended, realizing youa re simply misled.

I would like an honest opinion on this question as stated; Which of the two following sentences indicates more commitment? A) "Honey, why don't we move in together and live with each other a while?" B) "Honey, here is a ring to symbolize my undying love for you; I would like to have a ceremony where I state that I will only love you for the rest of my life, in front of a number of witnesses; would you be my wife?"

See, and now you try to continue to slander people who don't share your views. I don't have a problem with your question, just the way in which you think it should be asked.

Get this, it's not 'for a while' we live toegther period. We are together forever, we are one. There is no 'for a while', it is till death.

So I would ask it like this;

A) Does it show more commitment to move in together because you love each other and think it is the next step in you relationship?

or

B) Does it show more commitment to get married first because god says that's what we have to do, instead of making the decision for ourselves?

I want you to understand, I'm not against marriage, and my girl friend and I will be getting married next year. Moving in is just the necessary step before we marry. We're not doing this for 'a while' as you put it.

[Clownboat]

Please post evidence that my thoughts are ignorant.

The only one that comes to mind is getting relationship advise from someone raised Amish seems like an odd place to start.

Nothing against the Amish, it's just that their courting and interaction with the opposite sex during adolescence would not be considered the norm when compared to the rest of society.

I don't see where living together before marriage would have anything to do with a commitment level and must admit saying so does "sound" ignorant.