Anti-Semitism and time travel

[RobertUrbanek]

Anti-Semitism may be the residue of a previous timeline in which Jews did rule the world and Gentiles were confined to impoverished ghettos, much like the Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza. Renegade scientists created a time machine to allow them to go back and change history. Two of those time travelers, Jesus and Hitler, were somewhat successful in preventing Jewish domination.

If you wish to consider time as being non-linear, like the surface of a donut, then effect can precede cause. Backed into a corner in a conventional war, Israel may use nuclear weapons that kill six million Muslims. Thus, the Holocaust was a punishment in the past for what the Jews would do in the future.

[JoeyKnothead]

Anti-Semitism may be the residue of a previous timeline in which Jews did rule the world and Gentiles were confined to impoverished ghettos, much like the Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza. Renegade scientists created a time machine to allow them to go back and change history. Two of those time travelers, Jesus and Hitler, were somewhat successful in preventing Jewish domination.

If you wish to consider time as being non-linear, like the surface of a donut, then effect can precede cause. Backed into a corner in a conventional war, Israel may use nuclear weapons that kill six million Muslims. Thus, the Holocaust was a punishment in the past for what the Jews would do in the future.

[cnorman18]

Anti-Semitism may be the residue of a previous timeline in which Jews did rule the world and Gentiles were confined to impoverished ghettos...

Do you believe that this is, was, or might be the ultimate goal of the Jews?

If so, why?

If not, what is the source of that speculation?

...much like the Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza.

Uh-huh. See below.

Renegade scientists created a time machine to allow them to go back and change history.

"Renegade" from what?

Two of those time travelers, Jesus and Hitler, were somewhat successful in preventing Jewish domination.

Ah. So Hitler's horrifying murder machine, which consumed six million innocent Jewish men, women and children, and four to six million other, non-Jewish civilian noncombatants, was very possibly a GOOD thing, and is comparable to the accomplishments of Jesus...

(And maybe Jeffrey Dahmer only murdered and ate boys who would grow up to be serial killers worse than he, and Jack the Ripper only murdered women who would give birth to tyrants, and Pol Pot was really a deeply misunderstood humanitarian agrarian reformer...)

Again I ask the glaringly obvious questions: Do you believe that "Jewish domination" is or was the ultimate goal of the Jews?

If so, why?

If not, where did this bizarre, contemptible, and incredibly offensive fantasy come from?

If you wish to consider time as being non-linear, like the surface of a donut, then effect can precede cause.

And if you wish to consider thumbs and big toes as wheels, my grandmother might have been a wagon.

Backed into a corner in a conventional war, Israel may use nuclear weapons that kill six million Muslims.

Spurred by sectarian religious fanaticism, a nuclear-armed Iran may reduce the state of Israel to a barren radioactive wasteland and thus kill 7.8 million Jews and others. That's as credible as your fantasy scenario, is it not?

Thus, the Holocaust was a punishment in the past for what the Jews would do in the future.

I see. So what was arguably the most horrifically evil event in the history of the human race may have been a just and equitable punishment for something that hasn't happened and likely will never happen.

Here's another scenario; the oppression of the Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank might be the present-day consequences of a relentless and merciless decades-long campaign of terrorism and mass murder deliberately directed at unarmed noncombatant civilians as primary targets.

Oh, wait. Unlike your bizarre science-fiction fantasy, that actually happened, and is still going on.

I don't think we have to postulate time travel as a reason for antisemitism. I think the myth/fantasy/hateful stereotype of the evil, greedy, bloodthirsty JEEEWWS craving TOTAL WOOORLD DOMINAAATION is a pretty good explanation for it, all by itself. Has this occurred to you, or did you just take it for granted as an immutable attribute of the Jewish character?

Again: If not, where did this piece of -- stuff -- come from?

[RobertUrbanek]

Anti-Semitism may be the residue of a previous timeline in which Jews did rule the world and Gentiles were confined to impoverished ghettos...

Do you believe that this is, was, or might be the ultimate goal of the Jews?

If so, why?

If not, what is the source of that speculation?

...much like the Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza.

Uh-huh. See below.

Renegade scientists created a time machine to allow them to go back and change history.

"Renegade" from what?

Two of those time travelers, Jesus and Hitler, were somewhat successful in preventing Jewish domination.

Ah. So Hitler's horrifying murder machine, which consumed six million innocent Jewish men, women and children, and four to six million other, non-Jewish civilian noncombatants, was very possibly a GOOD thing, and is comparable to the accomplishments of Jesus...

(And maybe Jeffrey Dahmer only murdered and ate boys who would grow up to be serial killers worse than he, and Jack the Ripper only murdered women who would give birth to tyrants, and Pol Pot was really a deeply misunderstood humanitarian agrarian reformer...)

Again I ask the glaringly obvious questions: Do you believe that "Jewish domination" is or was the ultimate goal of the Jews?

If so, why?

If not, where did this bizarre, contemptible, and incredibly offensive fantasy come from?

If you wish to consider time as being non-linear, like the surface of a donut, then effect can precede cause.

And if you wish to consider thumbs and big toes as wheels, my grandmother might have been a wagon.

Backed into a corner in a conventional war, Israel may use nuclear weapons that kill six million Muslims.

Spurred by sectarian religious fanaticism, a nuclear-armed Iran may reduce the state of Israel to a barren radioactive wasteland and thus kill 7.8 million Jews and others. That's as credible as your fantasy scenario, is it not?

Thus, the Holocaust was a punishment in the past for what the Jews would do in the future.

I see. So what was arguably the most horrifically evil event in the history of the human race may have been a just and equitable punishment for something that hasn't happened and likely will never happen.

Here's another scenario; the oppression of the Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank might be the present-day consequences of a relentless and merciless decades-long campaign of terrorism and mass murder deliberately directed at unarmed noncombatant civilians as primary targets.

Oh, wait. Unlike your bizarre science-fiction fantasy, that actually happened, and is still going on.

I don't think we have to postulate time travel as a reason for antisemitism. I think the myth/fantasy/hateful stereotype of the evil, greedy, bloodthirsty JEEEWWS craving TOTAL WOOORLD DOMINAAATION is a pretty good explanation for it, all by itself. Has this occurred to you, or did you just take it for granted as an immutable attribute of the Jewish character?

Again: If not, where did this piece of -- stuff -- come from?

As long as Jews keep their boots on the throats of Palestinians, they will have to expect their occupation to serve as the inspiration for other scenarios.

[cnorman18]

Anti-Semitism may be the residue of a previous timeline in which Jews did rule the world and Gentiles were confined to impoverished ghettos...

Do you believe that this is, was, or might be the ultimate goal of the Jews?

If so, why?

If not, what is the source of that speculation?

...much like the Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza.

Uh-huh. See below.

Renegade scientists created a time machine to allow them to go back and change history.

"Renegade" from what?

Two of those time travelers, Jesus and Hitler, were somewhat successful in preventing Jewish domination.

Ah. So Hitler's horrifying murder machine, which consumed six million innocent Jewish men, women and children, and four to six million other, non-Jewish civilian noncombatants, was very possibly a GOOD thing, and is comparable to the accomplishments of Jesus...

(And maybe Jeffrey Dahmer only murdered and ate boys who would grow up to be serial killers worse than he, and Jack the Ripper only murdered women who would give birth to tyrants, and Pol Pot was really a deeply misunderstood humanitarian agrarian reformer...)

Again I ask the glaringly obvious questions: Do you believe that "Jewish domination" is or was the ultimate goal of the Jews?

If so, why?

If not, where did this bizarre, contemptible, and incredibly offensive fantasy come from?

If you wish to consider time as being non-linear, like the surface of a donut, then effect can precede cause.

And if you wish to consider thumbs and big toes as wheels, my grandmother might have been a wagon.

Backed into a corner in a conventional war, Israel may use nuclear weapons that kill six million Muslims.

Spurred by sectarian religious fanaticism, a nuclear-armed Iran may reduce the state of Israel to a barren radioactive wasteland and thus kill 7.8 million Jews and others. That's as credible as your fantasy scenario, is it not?

Thus, the Holocaust was a punishment in the past for what the Jews would do in the future.

I see. So what was arguably the most horrifically evil event in the history of the human race may have been a just and equitable punishment for something that hasn't happened and likely will never happen.

Here's another scenario; the oppression of the Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank might be the present-day consequences of a relentless and merciless decades-long campaign of terrorism and mass murder deliberately directed at unarmed noncombatant civilians as primary targets.

Oh, wait. Unlike your bizarre science-fiction fantasy, that actually happened, and is still going on.

I don't think we have to postulate time travel as a reason for antisemitism. I think the myth/fantasy/hateful stereotype of the evil, greedy, bloodthirsty JEEEWWS craving TOTAL WOOORLD DOMINAAATION is a pretty good explanation for it, all by itself. Has this occurred to you, or did you just take it for granted as an immutable attribute of the Jewish character?

Again: If not, where did this piece of -- stuff -- come from?

As long as Jews keep their boots on the throats of Palestinians, they will have to expect their occupation to serve as the inspiration for other scenarios.

I note that you don't answer ANY of my questions...

(the rest of this post I have deleted)

---

Edit: Never mind. I looked at your website.

Have a nice day, and peace to you.

[Yusef]

Why you think Iran would likes to attack to Israel!??
I'm an Iranian and know how their emotion and belief is..
Iranians never attack to anywhere even Israel which Iranians detest that...
But if any country wants to attack to Iran, Iranians would defend seriously. Even if they don't pleased with their own government.
And Iranians and Muslims detest Jews cause of they killed too many of the Prophets.. no any other reason.
And when Mr. AhmadiNejad says the Isra'il must be clean from the map of the world, It no means that We should clean that!
Iran can't attack to countries. cause of it is under Islamic Shari'at. and it doesn't allow that to attack.
Not forget that there is not any Islamic country in the world while the coming of The Mahdi(a.s.)[according to the Ahadith of Shi'a]
And just The Saviour can administers 100% of the Islamic Shari'ah.

[Goat]

Why you think Iran would likes to attack to Israel!??
I'm an Iranian and know how their emotion and belief is..
Iranians never attack to anywhere even Israel which Iranians detest that...
But if any country wants to attack to Iran, Iranians would defend seriously. Even if they don't pleased with their own government.
And Iranians and Muslims detest Jews cause of they killed too many of the Prophets.. no any other reason.
And when Mr. AhmadiNejad says the Isra'il must be clean from the map of the world, It no means that We should clean that!
Iran can't attack to countries. cause of it is under Islamic Shari'at. and it doesn't allow that to attack.
Not forget that there is not any Islamic country in the world while the coming of The Mahdi(a.s.)[according to the Ahadith of Shi'a]
And just The Saviour can administers 100% of the Islamic Shari'ah.

Maybe, just maybe it is the crazy rhetoric of your current president that would cause people to think they want to attack Israel, and maybe, just maybe it is Iran's funding of violent groups in that area. The amazing amount of bigotry and hate flowing from the highest levels of the Iranian government does not give people confidence of peaceful intentions. Such proclamations as 'Israel must be destroyed' really cause people to be concerned Iran will cause war, if not directly, then by proxy.

[Darias]

Why you think Iran would likes to attack to Israel!??
I'm an Iranian and know how their emotion and belief is..
Iranians never attack to anywhere even Israel which Iranians detest that...
But if any country wants to attack to Iran, Iranians would defend seriously. Even if they don't pleased with their own government.
And Iranians and Muslims detest Jews cause of they killed too many of the Prophets.. no any other reason.
And when Mr. AhmadiNejad says the Isra'il must be clean from the map of the world, It no means that We should clean that!
Iran can't attack to countries. cause of it is under Islamic Shari'at. and it doesn't allow that to attack.
Not forget that there is not any Islamic country in the world while the coming of The Mahdi(a.s.)[according to the Ahadith of Shi'a]
And just The Saviour can administers 100% of the Islamic Shari'ah.

Maybe, just maybe it is the crazy rhetoric of your current president that would cause people to think they want to attack Israel, and maybe, just maybe it is Iran's funding of violent groups in that area. The amazing amount of bigotry and hate flowing from the highest levels of the Iranian government does not give people confidence of peaceful intentions. Such proclamations as 'Israel must be destroyed' really cause people to be concerned Iran will cause war, if not directly, then by proxy.

As a supporter of the state of Israel, I have few things to say.

First, I understand how useful the mistranslation of Ahmadinejad's words are in terms of making the case for preemptive hostilities with Iran. But the fact is, Ahmadinejad did not declare that Israel as a state should be wiped off the face of the map. I don't care if Yusef "confirms" what his own president allegedly said, because in all honesty, he probably was misinformed by the same mistranslation propagated by the media. (I also don't care what the Shia doctrine of Sharia is because actions of governments are not always in accordance with scripture. E.g., Jesus never advocated war, but many Christian Presidents in the US have been in favor of all sorts of warfare.) None of this clarifies what Ahmadinejad actually said.

Juan Cole, a University of Michigan Professor of Modern Middle East and South Asian History, agrees that Ahmadinejad's statement should be translated as, "the Imam said that this regime occupying Jerusalem (een rezhim-e eshghalgar-e qods) must [vanish from] the page of time (bayad az safheh-ye ruzgar mahv shavad)."[88] According to Cole, "Ahmadinejad did not say he was going to 'wipe Israel off the map' because no such idiom exists in Persian." Instead, "he did say he hoped its regime, i.e., a Jewish-Zionist state occupying Jerusalem, would collapse."[89] The Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI) translated the phrase similarly, as "this regime" must be "eliminated from the pages of history."[90]

Now, at the face of it, this may appear like parsing words. But it isn't. There is a world of difference between suggesting a country be wiped from the face of the earth - implying military action in the form of nuclear warfare, and a political statement, albeit exaggerated, concerning Zionism -- or Iranian perception of Israeli political leadership. Let's face it, the Muslim world tends to equate Zionism with Bush-like policies carried out by Netanyahu and his far right Likud Party. If Palestinians were not in so much suffering, or at risk of being killed - and if they had a state of their own, well Muslims wouldn't probably have a problem with Zionism.

But all of this is besides the point. Yes, the Iranian government has been known to fund terrorists, just as the United States did in Afghanistan in the 80s, and more recently in Libya. Israel is guilty of funding terrorism as well, supporting the PKK against Turkey. Yes, Iran could easily hire pirates to harass shipping and slow down the flow of oil -- in response to hostilities from the United States or Israel, but this is only if things escalate.

Iran is currently enriching Uranium... medical isotopes. They haven't yet made weapons grade uranium. They don't have enough material for a bomb. They don't have a bomb. And they have no delivery device.

Supporters of the current Iranian regime and protestors alike all want the right to use nuclear energy for peaceful purposes.

Now, is there an incentive for Iran to acquire nuclear weapons? Yes, especially in light of how the United States treats countries on the basis of their possessing those weapons. North Korea remains un-invaded. Pakistan remains "an ally." Even Romney said it would be a bad idea to abandon a nation with nuclear weapons during the debates. What kind of message does that send?

Iranian leadership, which is headed by the Ayatollah, not their clown of a president, understands that Israel has hundreds of nuclear weapons and that if Iran attacked Israel or the United States, Tehran would be wiped off the map (The Ayatollah has considered removing the office of the presidency and replacing it with a prime minister; he and Ahmadinejad do not like each other and he knows his president is an embarassment. Iranian leadership is not illogical. They understand the threat. Iran is surrounded by US bases. Their airspace is patrolled by our own drones. The US or Israel has killed their scientists with magnetic car bombs -- (another use of terrorism). The entire global community is waging economic warfare on Iran -- which only really hurts their people in the end.

And did you know that Iran is a signatory to the Non-Proliferation Treaty. Israel isn't. And under that treaty the United States is actually obliged to help with their peaceful programs.

The whole world is putting sanctions on Iran for not meeting every jot and tittle of the NPT, but Israel is not beholden to any such rules.

Clearly, this is hypocracy -- and an excuse for another Iraq in the Middle East.

The Iranians will not sit back and take a hit on their refineries. The Russians will not tolerate it. A preemptive war caused by Israel and waged by the United States will create a huge regional conflict and skyrocket the price of fuel. This is a very bad idea.

Netanyahu can't wait to attack Iran, this is one reason he fiddled around in our politics and sided with Romney, to the displeasure of his own citizens.

No one wants another holocaust, but this is never going to happen again - at least not to the Jews. Ahmadinejad's denial of history is not shared by others in Iranian leadership, and his views on the matter are irrelevant because he possesses little of his own power in light of the Ayatollah and his control on the country.

I think cooler heads should prevail here. The idea that Iran is evil and is the only one breaking the rules and is completely unprovoked is absolute horse ____. The idea that a preemptive strike will be received with open arms and prevent a "nuclear arms race in the Middle East" is also bunk. (There's already a nuclear arms race. Pakistan, India, and Israel -- you know, the only ones with that destructive power--- they are to blame for it -- not Iran.)

The idea that all supporters of the State of Israel must, by extension, support Netanyahu and all his policies lest we all be labeled racists and supporters of another Jewish holocaust -- well that's insane.

From an objective standpoint. Netanyahu is just an Israeli Bush. We should all be critical of all countries and not just fall prey to media repetition, lazy intellectualism, and the whole "good vs evil" bs --- lest we all find ourselves in another Iraq, asking "how did this happen."

[cnorman18]

Why you think Iran would likes to attack to Israel!??

I actually never said that. I said that that scenario was as credible as Urbanek's fantasy scenario.

To Darias: very well said. I agree on all counts, particularly on support of Netanyahu and his counterproductive (to say the least) policies -- though I am not sure that Israel possesses "hundreds" of nuclear weapons. A few dozen, certainly, but -- hundreds?

Not that it matters much. As some U. S. President once observed, "The Soviet Union has enough nuclear weapons to drop the equivalent of (x) tons of TNT on the head of every man, woman and child in the United States. The United States has enough nuclear weapons to drop (2x) tons of TNT on the head of every man, woman and child in the Soviet Union.... But under most circumstances, the average person wouldn't be able to tell the difference."

[Darias]

Why you think Iran would likes to attack to Israel!??

I actually never said that. I said that that scenario was as credible as Urbanek's fantasy scenario.

To Darias: very well said. I agree on all counts, particularly on support of Netanyahu and his counterproductive (to say the least) policies -- though I am not sure that Israel possesses "hundreds" of nuclear weapons. A few dozen, certainly, but -- hundreds?

Not that it matters much. As some U. S. President once observed, "The Soviet Union has enough nuclear weapons to drop the equivalent of (x) tons of TNT on the head of every man, woman and child in the United States. The United States has enough nuclear weapons to drop (2x) tons of TNT on the head of every man, woman and child in the Soviet Union.... But under most circumstances, the average person wouldn't be able to tell the difference."

I doubt any country that has the rational self-interest to arm itself with nuclear weapons would stop with 24, but there is evidence it has increased its stockpile. The problem is no one really knows because it doesn't subject itself to IAEA inspections, as it expects Iran to do.

Outside of the Israeli defense ministry, very few people know precisely how many nuclear-armed missiles the country has. According to a non-classified 1999 estimate from the U.S. Defense Intelligence Agency, which was cited in a 2007 bulletin from the Federation of American Scientists, Israel had between sixty and eighty nuclear warheads. More recent estimates say the figure is considerably higher.

The London-based Institute of Strategic Studies says Israel has up to 200 warheads loaded on land-based Jericho 1 and Jericho 2 short- and medium-range missiles. Janes, the defense-information company, estimates that the over-all number of warheads is between a hundred and three hundred, which puts the Israeli nuclear arsenal roughly on a par with the British and French capabilities. And some of these warheads are widely believed to have been loaded onto the new Jericho 3 intercontinental ballistic missile, which has a range of up to four thousand five hundred miles"meaning it could theoretically strike targets in Europe and Asia.

And unlike Iran, Israel has been known to preemptively strike perceived threats, as was the case in Iraq. In terms of foreign policy, Israel is the US of the Middle East and surrounding nations are in their right to worry about Israel's next step. The possibility that Israel will strike Iran is infinitely greater than an imagined Iranian nuclear strike. If Iran retaliates such a strike, Israel's next move might be to deploy a few dozen of it's nuclear weapons -- or at least threaten to use them to prevent a counterstrike from occurring (After all, it has plenty to spare).

I worry about the safety of Israel with Netanyahu at the helm. Israel doesn't need a war with Iran and neither do we.