Help: How do I know that your God is the one, true God?

[Kir Komrik]

Hi all,
I'm new here and have just read up on the policies and finished my signature, etc. I hope I've done everything correctly so far.
I would like to believe in an almighty power but the problem is that in my research I've found so many gods out there. Coming from a family that has been explicitly atheist for generations, I'm starting from scratch and am looking at all religions.
I am sincerely curious to know how would I know, for instance, that your god is the one, true God?
Thank you.

[Kir Komrik]

Speaking of which, would you care to answer Question 12?

So, the question is:

Is it more likely that Noah’s flood narrative is the result of Agenticity or is it more likely that your god is The One, True God?

Well first of all I'm biased because I believe with all my heart, soul and mind that the God I worship is the one true God so you will, of course, need to take my answer with a grain of salt... but here's the best answer I can give.

I didn't know what agenticity was until you introduced that term to me so I googled it and read it is "the tendency to infuse patterns with meaning, intention, and agency". I don't see how that would apply in this case. I have heard several possibilities A) The Genesis flood is a silly thing to believe, it's impossible and never happened B) The Genesis flood was a local flood based on the Epic of Gilgamesh C) The Genesis flood is true.

Which one is more likely? I'm not 100% sure but I think B is the least likely. I can't really imagine a religious group looking at a story that another religious group has and saying "hey, lets take that story about Bel and Gilgamesh and make our own story about a worldwide flood. Except for names and a few other changes it'll be the same story". Yeah, no, that doesn't sound very likely to me.

If there was a worldwide flood I would expect that many religions and cultures would have some sort of flood story that has been passed down through generations either written down or through oral tradition. Unless the story was copied down meticulously and repeatedly it would likely evolve over time and in the end may have some material differences.

So I guess the short answer to your question is that I believe its more likely that the latter is true.

WAS THERE AN EVENT WHEREIN THE KNOWN WORLD OF THAT DAY WAS INUNDATED ?

The major volcanic explosion of Hekla 4 in Iceland, which spewed out massive amounts of larva, coupled with a close encounter with a passing comet and a Tunguska like fireball, are believed to have been major issues in the inundation of Ireland that is said to have been left waste for 30 odd years, and the devastating flood around the Mediterranean Sea, and the lands of Mesopotamia, which was the known civilized world in the days of Noah around 2350 B.C, the time when this catastrophic event is said to have occurred.

To those who are interested, I would advise them to read the “Report on Second Cambridge Conference,� an article by Mark Bailey Posted December 15 1997. Following is a small extract from said article.

Marie-Agnes Courty (CNRS, Grignon) presented new archaeological data concerning a catastrophe inferred to have occurred in the Middle East c.2350 BC. She emphasized the importance of high-time-resolution archaeological investigations in the assessment of natural catastrophes on societal collapse, the data in this case indicating the combination of a burnt surface horizon and air blast, consistent with a Tunguska-like fireball, but possibly also a major volcanic event.

The evidence for regional environmental change at about the same time was confirmed and extended by Mike Baillie (Queen’s University Belfast), whose tree-ring analyses of Irish bog oaks showed very significant narrowing of the rings around the year 2345 BC, associated with identified tephra from the Icelandic Hekla 4 volcano, dated to 2310 +/- 20 BC. This suggests a volcanic origin of the c. 2350 BC event identified by Courty, but the period in question is also associated with other events, including floods, the creation of new lakes and even the traditional start of Chinese history! In Baillie’s words, 2345 BC ‘is a classic marker date, i.e. a date which will show up on a regular basis in studies of various kinds’.

Although the flood story as handed down from Noah to his descendant Abraham the Chaladean who left the city of Ur, where his father “Terah’ had been high priest, had been a local event around Ireland and the coasts of the Mediterranian Sea and beyond into the land of Mesopotamia, according to the “Report on Second Cambridge Conference,� an article by Mark Bailey,� there were world wide volcamic eruptions, tsunamis, and destructive floods, which have been recorded from many different civilisations around the globe.

Do you think that the people of the pre-flood days knew that the circumference of the earth was almost 25,000 miles, or knew how many continents and islands there are on this earth? And if not, just how big do you think that their known world was, which known world of their would have been covered with water from horizon to horizon?

According to the OT, it was some 400 years after the flood that Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed, and the daughters of the righteous Lot, believed, that of every man in the world, their father was the sole survivor. How big did they believe the world was?

The animals that were taken into the ark, would have been those, which were chosen from the animals that had been forced to flee from the rising water to the higher ground upon which Noah would have presumably built the ark, which animals would have only been those of his known world, that was flooded around the year 2350 BC.

I believe that the flood that occurred in Noah’s day, around 2,350 BC, was an event that would have been recorded and handed down by a witness of that era, as "A WORLD-WIDE FLOOD".

I’m not too sure from where the following (IN BLUE) came from. I am assuming that it was googled up by somebody and posted to me, and which I found interesting enough to file away in “MY DOCUMENTS�.

Over 2000 years before George Smith’s discovery of the deluge tablets in Iraq, there existed an account of the Chaldean (pre-Babylonian) flood myth. Berosus, an ancient Chaldean historian living in the time of Alexander the Great in the 4th century B.C.E, relayed to the Greeks the antiquity of his people’s deluge myth in the following words:

“After the death of Ardates, his son Xisuthrus reigned eighteen sari. In his time happened a great deluge; the history of which is thus described. The deity Cronos appeared to him in a vision, and warned him that upon the fifteenth day of the month Daesius there would be a flood, by which mankind would be destroyed. He therefore enjoined him to write a history of the beginning, procedure, and conclusion of all things, and to bury it in the city of the Sun at Sippara; and to build a vessel, and take with him into it his friends and relations; and to convey on board everything necessary to sustain life, together with all the different animals, both birds and quadrupeds, and trust himself fearlessly to the deep.

Having asked the Deity whither he was to sail, he was answered, To the Gods; upon which he offered up a prayer for the good of mankind. He then obeyed the divine admonition and built a vessel five stadia in length, and two in breadth. Into this he put everything which he had prepared, and last of all conveyed into it his wife, his children, and his friends. After the flood had been upon the earth, and was in time abated, Xisuthrus sent out birds from the vessel; which not finding any food, nor any place whereupon they might rest their feet, returned to him again. After an interval of some days, he sent them forth a second time; and they now returned with their feet tinged with mud. He made a trial a third time with these birds; but they returned to him no more: from whence he judged that the surface of the earth had appeared above the waters.

He therefore made an opening in the vessel, and upon looking out found that it was stranded upon the side of some mountain; upon which he immediately quitted it with his wife, his daughter, and the pilot. Xisuthrus then paid his adoration to the earth: and, having constructed an altar, offered sacrifices to the gods…� .

It should be noted that the account of the deluge relayed in the tablets discovered by George Smith differ only vary slightly from Berosus’ account, which differs only slightly from the story handed down by the Chaldean Abraham, who lived with Noah for about 58 years before the old patriarch died some 350 years after the great flood.

The Flood of Noah didn’t come as a surprise. It had been preached on for four generations. But something strange happened when Enoch was 65, from which time "he walked with God." Enoch was given a prophecy that as long as his firstborn son “Methusulah� was alive, the judgment of the flood would be withheld; but as soon as he died, the flood would be sent forth.

Enoch named his firstborn to reflect this prophecy. The name Methuselah comes from two roots: muth, a root that means "death;" and from shalach, which means "to bring," or "to send forth." Thus, the name Methuselah signifies, "his death shall bring." And, indeed, in the year that Methuselah died, the flood came.

Remembering that Abraham was the son of “Terah,� the high priest of the Chaldean city of Ur, and he was 58 years old when Noah the Chaldean died and would have heard the flood story from his oldest patriarch. Could the Chaldean name “Ardates,� mean, “When he dies it will happen?� And could the name “Xisuthrus� have the same meaning as the name “Noah� which is, “One who brings relief or comfort?�

The Chaldean month of “Daesius,� is the second month, which corresponds with the biblical account that it was in the second month that the flood came. But there is a two day discrepancy. The biblical account is the 17th day, whereas the other is the 15th day.

It is written in the ancient records that Eve knew that the world was to be destroyed by water and by fire, but she didn’t know in what order they would come.

Wanting to leave a written account of their life and times, she was stuck with the problem of what material should be used for those records. If they used clay tablets, and the fire came first, the clay tablets would bake hard and survive, but should the flood come first, the clay tablets would dissolve and their record would be lost.

But should they etch their record on stone, the flood would not affect them, but should the fiery destruction come first, the stone would crack and crumble into dust with the intense heat and the records would be lost. It was finally decided to engrave their history on stone tablets and wrap them in clay, upon which their history would be recorded also.

The more that I am forced to look at the flood accounts, the more I am convinced that some catastrophic event occurred some 4350 years ago, which caused worldwide devastating floods and tsunamis, of which the more accurate account, can be found in the Hebrew culture that came down from the Chaldean Abraham, and his family, who have remained intact as a racial religion for some 4,000 years.

Could the lakes and floods which Mike Baillie of (Queen’s University Belfast), suggests were formed around the time of the 2350 BC event identified by Courty, have been the result of impact, strikes, by a swarm of meteors that crossed earth’s orbit causing world-wide tsunamis and craters which have long since filled with water, which world wide event could have been the cause of all the flood stories that have come out of all the old ancient civilisations?

The Tongue, that was really, really long I think we're all in agreement on this point. I also think a major flood occurred.

[Autumn Leaf]

Only He who can create a text like Genesis is God, see http://kotisivu.dnainternet.fi/esa08/hidden-words.html.

[Kir Komrik]

Only He who can create a text like Genesis is God, see http://kotisivu.dnainternet.fi/esa08/hidden-words.html.

Interesting. Unfortunately, the link didn't work for me. Can you check it? Thanks

[AdHoc]

Shoot did I say that?

Ha, ha, pretty sure.

Well first of all I'm biased ...

I'm finally picking up what you're putting down and now I don't know how best to answer the question.

Whuuttt? I'm not putting down anything, or that wasn't my intent. I'm just saying that it is human nature to ascribe Agency to perfectly natural events, or that is what the research shows.

My apologies, I will elucidate "I'm picking up what you're putting down" is evidently a regional colloquialism, it means "I understand your meaning"

~ Kir Komrik: is it more likely that the flood narrative (which supposes divine agency) is attributable to Agenticity or is it more likely that Utnapishtim is The One, True God?

Definitely the former

Good choice. I agree.

Ready for the next question?

Sure. Where is this all leading? Will I become an atheist at the end of this?

[sickles]

I can't really imagine a religious group looking at a story that another religious group has and saying "hey, lets take that story about Bel and Gilgamesh and make our own story about a worldwide flood. Except for names and a few other changes it'll be the same story". Yeah, no, that doesn't sound very likely to me.

That doesnt seem likely to you? you can trace almost all worldwide religions and practices to Animism. How do you propose this was accomplished without "hey, lets take that (popular) story about bel and gilgamesh..." There is a demonstrated causal link between the two. Its hard to imagine you could read the two stories, like as they are, and see one came many hundreds of years before the other, within 500 miles of one another, and deny that they could very likely be one inspired by the other. Strange.

What about the possibility that they were both written seperately about the same event?
Can you elaborate on the "demonstrated causal link" that you refer to?

The possiblity that they were both written seperately about the same event is precluded by the distance in time in which both stories were given to us.

from wiki " A short reference to the flood myth is also present in the much older Sumerian Gilgamesh poems, from which the later Babylonian versions drew much of their inspiration and subject matter."

keep in mind this is like 1000 years before abraham.

"Ea commanded Utnapishtim to demolish his house and build a boat, regardless of the cost, to keep living beings alive."

"Utnapishtim promised to do what Ea commanded."

"Ea will provide abundant rain, a profusion of fowl and fish, and a wealthy harvest of wheat and bread."

"Five days later, Utnapishtim laid out the exterior walls of the boat of 120 cubits.
The sides of the superstructure had equal lengths of 120 cubits. He also made a drawing of the interior structure.
The boat had six decks [?] divided into seven and nine compartments.
Water plugs were driven into the middle part.
Punting poles and other necessary things were laid in.
Three times 3,600 units of raw bitumen were melted in a kiln and three times 3,600 units of oil were used in addition to two times 3,600 units of oil that were stored in the boat."

"He loaded "all the living beings that I had.""

"His relatives and craftsmen, and "all the beasts and animals of the field" boarded the boat."

"Early in the morning at dawn a black cloud arose from the horizon.
The weather was frightful.
Utnapishtim boarded the boat and entrusted the boat and its contents to his boatmaster Puzurammurri who sealed the entry.
The thunder god Adad rumbled in the cloud and storm gods Shullar and Hanish went over mountains and land.
Erragal pulled out the mooring poles and the dikes overflowed.
The Annunnaki gods lit up the land with their lightning.
There was stunned shock at Adad's deeds which turned everything to blackness. The land was shattered like a pot.
All day long the south wind blew rapidly and the water overwhelmed the people like an attack.
No one could see his fellows. They could not recognize each other in the torrent."

"The Mistress of the Gods wailed that the old days had turned to clay because "I said evil things in the Assembly of the Gods, ordering a catastrophe to destroy my people who fill the sea like fish.""

"The flood and wind lasted six days and seven nights, flattening the land.
On the seventh day, the storm was pounding [intermittently?] like a woman in labor."

"The boat lodged firmly on mount Nimush which held the boat for several days, allowing no swaying.
On the seventh day he released a dove which flew away, but came back to him. He released a swallow, but it also came back to him.
He released a raven which was able to eat and scratch, and did not circle back to the boat.
He then sent his livestock out in various directions."

"He sacrificed a sheep and offered incense at a mountainous ziggurat where he placed 14 sacrificial vessels and poured reeds, cedar, and myrtle into the fire."

etc etc etc

Im considering one being written 1000 years before the other a causal link. They were in the same part of the world , subject to 1000 years of human revision and cultural assimilation before the story is regurgitated back to us in genesis.

Wasnt abraham in mesopotamia when god revealed himself to him? Cause gilgamesh was king of mesopotamia. It makes perfect human sense.

If you cannot see the blatant similarities to these two stories, your eyes are covered.....

[Kir Komrik]

Question Number 13

Once again, I point out that we are not talking about proof or even a great argument, just which of two possibilities is more likely.

About Informational Influence

How can 2 billion people be wrong? It sounds compelling at first. But research shows that when subjects are asked to make a trivial assessment of fact with no knowledge of anyone else’s assessment, their accuracy is about 98%. And when that same assessment is performed after the subject observes the incorrect conclusions of several other subjects the subject reaches the correct conclusion only about one-half the time. Human beings tend to be influenced rather strongly by the ancillary information fed to them.

This has been replicated many times over the years. With a sufficient number of trials, not less than 75% of the general population’s views will conform to the erroneous perception of total strangers.

But what happens when the choice is nontrivial? Now increase the stakes. The accuracy plummets yet further.

The studies have been performed in many different ways. Police line ups, for example, show the same pattern. There the error conformity rate is found to be around 51% when a subject is asked to identify someone in a line up when others in the same room choose the wrong person (they conform to their confederates and are wrong). So, 51% of the time a person will incorrectly identify a suspect solely because everyone else in the room did.

Therefore, false beliefs can be generated with statistical reliability by making an idea popular. And the more ambiguous the judgment the higher the rates of conformity to false beliefs. People do this very thing when acculturated to the religion of, say, a particular geographic region, just as repeatedly occurred over and over in the myth of the immaculate conception of Semele.

Semele, mother of Dionysus

Semele, mother of Dionysus, was also believed to have had a 7 month pregnancy, just as the Virgin Mary of the narratives of YHWH.

In the life of Zoroaster, the law-giver of the Persians, the common mythos is apparent. He was born in innocence, of an immaculate conception, of a ray of the Divine Reason. As soon as he was born the glory from his body enlightened the whole room. Plato informs us that Zoroaster was said to be "the son of Oromasdes, which was the name the Persians gave to the Supreme God" --therefore he was the Son of God.

From the East we will turn to the West, and shall find that many of the ancient heroes of Grecian and Roman mythology were regarded as of divine origin, were represented as men, possessed of god-like form, strength and courage; were believed to have lived on earth in the remote, dim ages of the nation's history; to have been occupied in their life-time with thrilling adventures and extraordinary services in the cause of human civilization, and to have been after death in some cases translated to a life among the gods, and entitled to sacrifice and worship. In the hospitable Pantheon of the Greeks and Romans, a niche was always in readiness for every new divinity who could produce respectable credentials.

The Christian Justin Martyr, wrote:

Quote:

It having reached the Devil's ears that the prophets had foretold the coming of Christ (the Son of God), he set the Heathen Poets to bring forward a great many who should be called the sons of Jove. The Devil laying his scheme in this, to get men to imagine that the true history of Christ was of the same character as the prodigious fables related of the sons of Jove.

Among these "sons of Jove" may be mentioned the following: Hercules was the son of Jupiter by a mortal mother, Alcmene, Queen of Thebes. Zeus, the god of gods, spake of Hercules, his son, and said: "This day shall a child be born of the race of Perseus, who shall be the mightiest of the sons of men."
Bacchus was the son of Jupiter and a mortal mother, Semele, daughter of Kadmus, King of Thebes. As Montfaucon says, "It is the son of Jupiter and Semele which the poets celebrate, and which the monuments represent."

Bacchus is made to say:

Quote:

I, son of Deus, am come to this land of the Thebans, Bacchus, whom formerly Semele the daughter of Kadmus brings forth, being delivered by the lightning-bearing flame: and having taken a mortal form instead of a god's, I have arrived at the fountains of Dirce and the water of Ismenus.
Amphion was the son of Jupiter and a mortal mother, Antiope, daughter of Nicetus, King of Boeotia.

Prometheus, whose name is derived from a Greek word signifying foresight and providence, was a deity who united the divine and human nature in one person, and was confessedly both man and god.
In Fabulae 167 by Hyginus we see the earliest account of Semele’s impregnation, apparently and by definition, an immaculate conception:

[167] CLXVII. LIBER
Quote:

Liber, son of Jove and Proserpine, was dismembered by the Titans, and Jove gave his heart, torn to bits, to Semele in a drink. When she was made pregnant by this, Juno, changing herself to look like Semele’s nurse, Beroe, said to her: “Daughter, ask Jove to come to you as he comes to Juno, so you may know what pleasure it is to sleep with a god.� At her suggestion Semele made this request of Jove, and was smitten by a thunderbolt. He took Liber from her womb, and gave him to Nysus to be cared for. For this reason he is called Dionysus, and also “the one with two mothers.�

This myth was taken and spread curiously analogously to the spread of civilization in the ancient past. Of particular interest for us is how this belief spread in its inchoate incubators at the beginning of each transferal to a new culture. In other words, adherence to this narrative followed the “masses� who give rise to Informational Influence.

If we consider a typical adherent of this myth, and considering a typical adherent across the several and varied cultures over which this narrative survived and was believed, is it more likely that this was adherence to this belief was due to Informational Influence or because Zeus is the one, True god and yours is not?
So, as we proceed and I receive your answers I am able to formulate my questions better. Thank you for those answers. I will make one last and final amendment to my questions regarding Helios, Utnapishtim and Zeus here.
I will ignore for the moment the obvious similarity to the virgin birth of The Christ, as told in the Judeo-Christian narrative. For now, I am just curious about Informational Influence.

So, earlier we asked:
Is it more likely that belief in this narrative was due to Informational Influence or is it more likely that belief in this narrative was due to the fact that Zeus is the One, True God and yours is not?

And found that the former is probably the case.

Inductive Substitution

Just as we did for the Helios and Utnapishtim narratives, we can substitute in a narrative regarding the god YHWH again in this virgin birth story.

Seeking YHWH: An Explicated English Version of Abrahamic Primary Sources:

Announcement of the Birth of Jesus. 26In the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from YHWH to a city of Galilee named Nazareth, 27to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary. 28And he came to her and said, "Hail, O favored one, YHWH is with you!" 29But she was greatly troubled at the saying, and considered in her mind what sort of greeting this might be. 30And the angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with YHWH. 31And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus. 32He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Most High; and Lord YHWH will give to him the throne of his father David, 33and he will reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there will be no end." 34And Mary said to the angel, "How shall this be, since I have no husband?" 35And the angel said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy, the Son of YHWH. 36And behold, your kinswoman Elizabeth in her old age has also conceived a son; and this is the sixth month [=> ~ 7 month term; my note] with her who was called barren. 37For with YHWH nothing will be impossible." 38And Mary said, "Behold, I am the handmaid of YHWH; let it be to me according to your word." And the angel departed from her.

And

Seeking YHWH: An Explicated English Version of Abrahamic Primary Sources:

4And Joseph also went up from Galilee, from the city of Nazareth, to Judea, to the city of David, which is called Bethlehem, because he was of the house and lineage of David, 5to be enrolled with Mary, his betrothed, who was with child. 6And while they were there, the time came for her to be delivered. 7And she gave birth to her first-born son and wrapped him in swaddling cloths, and laid him in a manger, because there was no place for them in the inn.

Is it more likely that belief in the narrative of the Virgin Mary was due to Informational Influence or is it more likely that belief in this narrative was due to the fact that YHWH is the One, True God?

[Kir Komrik]

Shoot did I say that?

Ha, ha, pretty sure.

Well first of all I'm biased ...

I'm finally picking up what you're putting down and now I don't know how best to answer the question.

Whuuttt? I'm not putting down anything, or that wasn't my intent. I'm just saying that it is human nature to ascribe Agency to perfectly natural events, or that is what the research shows.

My apologies, I will elucidate "I'm picking up what you're putting down" is evidently a regional colloquialism, it means "I understand your meaning"

~ Kir Komrik: is it more likely that the flood narrative (which supposes divine agency) is attributable to Agenticity or is it more likely that Utnapishtim is The One, True God?

Definitely the former

Good choice. I agree.

Ready for the next question?

Sure. Where is this all leading? Will I become an atheist at the end of this?

I've just posted Question 13. Whether you become an atheist or anything else is up to you. I'm just asking questions in a way that makes sense to me. You may find that the questions don't make sense for you, or you may find that they do, but you reach a different conclusion. Or, you may read the questions and conclude what I think by the end will be blatantly clear.

And on that note, I think at the end you will see more clearly why formulating these questions this way was in fact the correct approach.

Good luck

[AdHoc]

Im considering one being written 1000 years before the other a causal link. They were in the same part of the world , subject to 1000 years of human revision and cultural assimilation before the story is regurgitated back to us in genesis.

Wasnt abraham in mesopotamia when god revealed himself to him? Cause gilgamesh was king of mesopotamia. It makes perfect human sense.

If you cannot see the blatant similarities to these two stories, your eyes are covered.....

Sure Abraham was in mesopotamia, so what? He didn't write Genesis Moses did.

I'm not questioning the similarities I'm questioning your causal inference. The conclusion you accepted is that one was written 1000 years before the other and so the latter is based on the former.

Or maybe they were both based on the same event? They are all Semetic people meaning they are descended from Shem. Shem was on the Ark and so to me it would make sense that of course they would all have a record of the flood and an ark and all the details surrounding it... their common ancestor was on the ark.

[AdHoc]

Question Number 13

Once again, I point out that we are not talking about proof or even a great argument, just which of two possibilities is more likely.

About Informational Influence

How can 2 billion people be wrong? It sounds compelling at first. But research shows that when subjects are asked to make a trivial assessment of fact with no knowledge of anyone else’s assessment, their accuracy is about 98%. And when that same assessment is performed after the subject observes the incorrect conclusions of several other subjects the subject reaches the correct conclusion only about one-half the time. Human beings tend to be influenced rather strongly by the ancillary information fed to them.

This has been replicated many times over the years. With a sufficient number of trials, not less than 75% of the general population’s views will conform to the erroneous perception of total strangers.

But what happens when the choice is nontrivial? Now increase the stakes. The accuracy plummets yet further.

The studies have been performed in many different ways. Police line ups, for example, show the same pattern. There the error conformity rate is found to be around 51% when a subject is asked to identify someone in a line up when others in the same room choose the wrong person (they conform to their confederates and are wrong). So, 51% of the time a person will incorrectly identify a suspect solely because everyone else in the room did.

This interests me. I understand that because of this effect they now say that the suspect may or may not be in the line up.

Therefore, false beliefs can be generated with statistical reliability by making an idea popular. And the more ambiguous the judgment the higher the rates of conformity to false beliefs. People do this very thing when acculturated to the religion of, say, a particular geographic region, just as repeatedly occurred over and over in the myth of the immaculate conception of Semele.

Semele, mother of Dionysus

Semele, mother of Dionysus, was also believed to have had a 7 month pregnancy, just as the Virgin Mary of the narratives of YHWH.

In the life of Zoroaster, the law-giver of the Persians, the common mythos is apparent. He was born in innocence, of an immaculate conception, of a ray of the Divine Reason. As soon as he was born the glory from his body enlightened the whole room. Plato informs us that Zoroaster was said to be "the son of Oromasdes, which was the name the Persians gave to the Supreme God" --therefore he was the Son of God.

From the East we will turn to the West, and shall find that many of the ancient heroes of Grecian and Roman mythology were regarded as of divine origin, were represented as men, possessed of god-like form, strength and courage; were believed to have lived on earth in the remote, dim ages of the nation's history; to have been occupied in their life-time with thrilling adventures and extraordinary services in the cause of human civilization, and to have been after death in some cases translated to a life among the gods, and entitled to sacrifice and worship. In the hospitable Pantheon of the Greeks and Romans, a niche was always in readiness for every new divinity who could produce respectable credentials.

The Christian Justin Martyr, wrote:

Quote:

It having reached the Devil's ears that the prophets had foretold the coming of Christ (the Son of God), he set the Heathen Poets to bring forward a great many who should be called the sons of Jove. The Devil laying his scheme in this, to get men to imagine that the true history of Christ was of the same character as the prodigious fables related of the sons of Jove.

Among these "sons of Jove" may be mentioned the following: Hercules was the son of Jupiter by a mortal mother, Alcmene, Queen of Thebes. Zeus, the god of gods, spake of Hercules, his son, and said: "This day shall a child be born of the race of Perseus, who shall be the mightiest of the sons of men."
Bacchus was the son of Jupiter and a mortal mother, Semele, daughter of Kadmus, King of Thebes. As Montfaucon says, "It is the son of Jupiter and Semele which the poets celebrate, and which the monuments represent."

Bacchus is made to say:

Quote:

I, son of Deus, am come to this land of the Thebans, Bacchus, whom formerly Semele the daughter of Kadmus brings forth, being delivered by the lightning-bearing flame: and having taken a mortal form instead of a god's, I have arrived at the fountains of Dirce and the water of Ismenus.
Amphion was the son of Jupiter and a mortal mother, Antiope, daughter of Nicetus, King of Boeotia.

Prometheus, whose name is derived from a Greek word signifying foresight and providence, was a deity who united the divine and human nature in one person, and was confessedly both man and god.
In Fabulae 167 by Hyginus we see the earliest account of Semele’s impregnation, apparently and by definition, an immaculate conception:

[167] CLXVII. LIBER
Quote:

Liber, son of Jove and Proserpine, was dismembered by the Titans, and Jove gave his heart, torn to bits, to Semele in a drink. When she was made pregnant by this, Juno, changing herself to look like Semele’s nurse, Beroe, said to her: “Daughter, ask Jove to come to you as he comes to Juno, so you may know what pleasure it is to sleep with a god.� At her suggestion Semele made this request of Jove, and was smitten by a thunderbolt. He took Liber from her womb, and gave him to Nysus to be cared for. For this reason he is called Dionysus, and also “the one with two mothers.�

This myth was taken and spread curiously analogously to the spread of civilization in the ancient past. Of particular interest for us is how this belief spread in its inchoate incubators at the beginning of each transferal to a new culture. In other words, adherence to this narrative followed the “masses� who give rise to Informational Influence.

If we consider a typical adherent of this myth, and considering a typical adherent across the several and varied cultures over which this narrative survived and was believed, is it more likely that this was adherence to this belief was due to Informational Influence or because Zeus is the one, True god and yours is not?
So, as we proceed and I receive your answers I am able to formulate my questions better. Thank you for those answers. I will make one last and final amendment to my questions regarding Helios, Utnapishtim and Zeus here.
I will ignore for the moment the obvious similarity to the virgin birth of The Christ, as told in the Judeo-Christian narrative. For now, I am just curious about Informational Influence.

So, earlier we asked:
Is it more likely that belief in this narrative was due to Informational Influence or is it more likely that belief in this narrative was due to the fact that Zeus is the One, True God and yours is not?

And found that the former is probably the case.

Inductive Substitution

Just as we did for the Helios and Utnapishtim narratives, we can substitute in a narrative regarding the god YHWH again in this virgin birth story.

Seeking YHWH: An Explicated English Version of Abrahamic Primary Sources:

Announcement of the Birth of Jesus. 26In the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from YHWH to a city of Galilee named Nazareth, 27to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary. 28And he came to her and said, "Hail, O favored one, YHWH is with you!" 29But she was greatly troubled at the saying, and considered in her mind what sort of greeting this might be. 30And the angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with YHWH. 31And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus. 32He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Most High; and Lord YHWH will give to him the throne of his father David, 33and he will reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there will be no end." 34And Mary said to the angel, "How shall this be, since I have no husband?" 35And the angel said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy, the Son of YHWH. 36And behold, your kinswoman Elizabeth in her old age has also conceived a son; and this is the sixth month [=> ~ 7 month term; my note] with her who was called barren. 37For with YHWH nothing will be impossible." 38And Mary said, "Behold, I am the handmaid of YHWH; let it be to me according to your word." And the angel departed from her.

And

Seeking YHWH: An Explicated English Version of Abrahamic Primary Sources:

4And Joseph also went up from Galilee, from the city of Nazareth, to Judea, to the city of David, which is called Bethlehem, because he was of the house and lineage of David, 5to be enrolled with Mary, his betrothed, who was with child. 6And while they were there, the time came for her to be delivered. 7And she gave birth to her first-born son and wrapped him in swaddling cloths, and laid him in a manger, because there was no place for them in the inn.

Is it more likely that belief in the narrative of the Virgin Mary was due to Informational Influence or is it more likely that belief in this narrative was due to the fact that YHWH is the One, True God?

In my case, the background information you provided (with the exception of the police line up stuff and the scripture) is all novel and so it follows that the likelihood of informational influence, at least in my case, would be approaching zero. This leaves me to select the alternative that I AM is the one, true God.

[Kir Komrik]

... the likelihood of informational influence, at least in my case, would be approaching zero ...

Not sure I'm following what you mean? The question is framed as given this information, which is more likely.