Are Atheists Potentially Morally Superior to Theists?

[Danmark]

The proposition is that atheists have the potential of being morally superior to theists because to the extent the atheist does good works, he does them because he wants to, because she thinks it right. Whereas the theist acts out of religious necessity or compulsion; the threat of hell or deprivation of heaven.

[TheTruth101]

One that put up the way of evolution goes strongly against the moral behaviors of religious establishments. Moral codes that we know now were done and said under christianity only after Moses. Before him, the moral codes were not so distinct, thus, God killing all in Sodom and Gommorah. If the rules were not set by Moses, then by all means, people can be left with an impression that Killing is right in sacrifice of bigger picture. As evident by the crusaders and what not, it was done in reality.

The religious prioncipals begins before the threory of evolution, so in short, you have no argument.

I can't comment on this post because I don't follow your reasoning and have trouble with your English. Could you rephrase?

As simple as it can get, religion was not made in reference to one being able to cooperate with another. As evident by Sodom and Gommorah and of the crusaders, we actually invoked conflicts for God.

As evident by Christ himself,

Matthew 10:34
New International Version (©1984)
"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

Again, you have no argument here.

[Artie]

Hi stubbornone

The only thing all atheists generally can be said to have in common is that they don't believe in gods. Personally I hold the view that morality is a logical result of evolution. Organisms started cooperating. Cooperating organisms survived better than those who didn't. Cooperation automatically produced a common set of codes called morals that improved cooperation and therefore chances of survival. So we have logic, reason, common sense, compassion, empathy, altruism, love, the Golden rule etc etc. I know why we have these and why they are important to follow. For those who don't understand we evolved justice systems and religions. Justice systems protect immoral people from the rest of us, and for example Christianity teaches morality and tell people if they are moral they'll survive forever which of course is just a way of taking the concept that if you follow evolved morality you enhance your chances of survival one step further so as to entice as many people as possible to behave morally.

Then why do most animals not follow our same moral code? Why to lions, when taking over a pride, kill the cubs to induce heat into the female lions earlier? Why do bull seals, in their competitions of rutting, often trample new borns? Why are some species of duck, so prone to rape, have special genitalia the allows females to block insemination as a result of frequent rape? The list goes on ...

Because of course not all social structures are equal so the codes that evolved weren't the same. Why in the world would you think the same codes could possibly apply to a lion as a human? Lions and humans are different you see both physically, mentally and live in different places under different conditions.

Indeed evolution all about survival of the fittest, not morality in the slightest.

And in a social context in such societies that people live the fittest is the one that follows the evolutionary moral codes otherwise he'll end up in jail. The unfit are those who end up in jail.

Again, if the goal ala animals is to spread genes, than I have no business as a man being married or behaving morally do I? I just have to screw as many women as possible and block other men from doing the same ... which is what happens in the animal world.

Which is precisely why religions evolved. To make people who think like this behave morally instead of screwing as many women as possible because nothing else stops them.

Indeed, there are no written treatises on morality that animals study and adopt are there?

Of course there aren't. Many animals don't need treatises to behave morally in social contexts. Just see altruism in animals in Wikipedia. Only immoral humans need religions and moral treatises to study and adopt. Moral humans wouldn't need them would they?

If you have any more questions or comments it might be more productive if you made one point at a time so I could be more precise in my explanations and get better continuity?

[Artie]

One that put up the way of evolution goes strongly against the moral behaviors of religious establishments. Moral codes that we know now were done and said under christianity only after Moses. Before him, the moral codes were not so distinct, thus, God killing all in Sodom and Gommorah. If the rules were not set by Moses, then by all means, people can be left with an impression that Killing is right in sacrifice of bigger picture. As evident by the crusaders and what not, it was done in reality.

The religious prioncipals begins before the threory of evolution, so in short, you have no argument.

I can't comment on this post because I don't follow your reasoning and have trouble with your English. Could you rephrase?

As simple as it can get, religion was not made in reference to one being able to cooperate with another. As evident by Sodom and Gommorah and of the crusaders, we actually invoked conflicts for God.

As evident by Christ himself,

Matthew 10:34
New International Version (©1984)
"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

Again, you have no argument here.

Yes, that is a terrible side effect. When Christ tried to teach morality to immoral people he didn't say "I will explain to you how and why morality evolved so you can use your logic, reason and common sense and see why it is in everybodys interest to behave morally so that we all can survive as long as possible". In a society where they believed in gods and didn't know about evolution he said of course "I will explain to you where morals come from. They come from God. Do what he says and survive forever." Unfortunately, this has had both positive and negative consequences. However, now we have the opportunity to get rid of religion once and for all as more and more people are capable of using logic, reason and common sense instead of belief.

[Tex]

However, now we have the opportunity to get rid of religion once and for all as more and more people are capable of using logic, reason and common sense instead of belief.

Wow....Very deep words. And of course this will better your life and countless of people....Knowing that ....This is all there is?

Because what the logic in being alive and learning.....If you're just going to die?

[Goat]

That is funny, because its the atheists claiming they are morally superior in the OP. In fact, Christian theology reminds us that we are all I perfect and to avoid the exact hubris you claim.
.

Perhaps you misread the op. What part of asking a question, and using the word 'potentially' don't you understand. That is not the claim of being superior.. but posing a question to be discussed. Really, you should stop projecting your prejudices.

[Danmark]

One that put up the way of evolution goes strongly against the moral behaviors of religious establishments. Moral codes that we know now were done and said under christianity only after Moses. Before him, the moral codes were not so distinct, thus, God killing all in Sodom and Gommorah. If the rules were not set by Moses, then by all means, people can be left with an impression that Killing is right in sacrifice of bigger picture. As evident by the crusaders and what not, it was done in reality.

The religious prioncipals begins before the threory of evolution, so in short, you have no argument.

Actually Truth my friend, distinct laws existed long before Moses. The Code of Hammurabi is dated around 1780 BCE, or up to 1000 years before the Ten Commandments [although dating the Decalogue is problematic and could be as late as between the 16th and 13th centuries BCE]. The Hebrews' "eye for an eye" can be traced to Hammurabi.

Hammurabi's Code is probably the oldest written set of laws we know of and was very detailed. An example:

9. If any one lose an article, and find it in the possession of another: if the person in whose possession the thing is found say "A merchant sold it to me, I paid for it before witnesses," and if the owner of the thing say, "I will bring witnesses who know my property," then shall the purchaser bring the merchant who sold it to him, and the witnesses before whom he bought it, and the owner shall bring witnesses who can identify his property. The judge shall examine their testimony--both of the witnesses before whom the price was paid, and of the witnesses who identify the lost article on oath. The merchant is then proved to be a thief and shall be put to death. The owner of the lost article receives his property, and he who bought it receives the money he paid from the estate of the merchant.
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/ancient/hamcode.asp

[Danmark]

However, now we have the opportunity to get rid of religion once and for all as more and more people are capable of using logic, reason and common sense instead of belief.

Wow....Very deep words. And of course this will better your life and countless of people....Knowing that ....This is all there is?

Because what the logic in being alive and learning.....If you're just going to die?

Many people are actually happy just being alive and learning. Having a finite time here on this wonderful planet makes life all the more precious. It is a shame to have all that knowledge just disappear, but then maybe on my deathbed I'll look on the bright side and be content about all the time I spent day dreaming instead of learning to conjugate verbs.

[East of Eden]

This speaks directly to two points in atheism: arrogance and ignorance.

As is the usual case with your posts, I choose not to read past the first line, because you have telegraphed:
A. You write as if you did not understand that this was a proposition, not a conclusion.
B. You prefer insults to analysis.

I'd prefer you not immediately try to derail the thread with insults.

Why start a thread is you're not going to bother responding to posts directed at you, such as stubbornones?

I disagree that atheists are potentially superior to theists, when the facts say they give less to charity than theists, and even donate blood less often. See the book "Who Really Cares".

[East of Eden]

One that put up the way of evolution goes strongly against the moral behaviors of religious establishments. Moral codes that we know now were done and said under christianity only after Moses. Before him, the moral codes were not so distinct, thus, God killing all in Sodom and Gommorah. If the rules were not set by Moses, then by all means, people can be left with an impression that Killing is right in sacrifice of bigger picture. As evident by the crusaders and what not, it was done in reality.

The religious prioncipals begins before the threory of evolution, so in short, you have no argument.

Actually Truth my friend, distinct laws existed long before Moses. The Code of Hammurabi is dated around 1780 BCE, or up to 1000 years before the Ten Commandments [although dating the Decalogue is problematic and could be as late as between the 16th and 13th centuries BCE]. The Hebrews' "eye for an eye" can be traced to Hammurabi.

Hammurabi's Code is probably the oldest written set of laws we know of and was very detailed. An example:

9. If any one lose an article, and find it in the possession of another: if the person in whose possession the thing is found say "A merchant sold it to me, I paid for it before witnesses," and if the owner of the thing say, "I will bring witnesses who know my property," then shall the purchaser bring the merchant who sold it to him, and the witnesses before whom he bought it, and the owner shall bring witnesses who can identify his property. The judge shall examine their testimony--both of the witnesses before whom the price was paid, and of the witnesses who identify the lost article on oath. The merchant is then proved to be a thief and shall be put to death. The owner of the lost article receives his property, and he who bought it receives the money he paid from the estate of the merchant.
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/ancient/hamcode.asp

More evidence that God's standards are written on our hearts, so that men are without excuse. His standards are most accurately revealed in the Bible.

[Tex]

However, now we have the opportunity to get rid of religion once and for all as more and more people are capable of using logic, reason and common sense instead of belief.

Wow....Very deep words. And of course this will better your life and countless of people....Knowing that ....This is all there is?

Because what the logic in being alive and learning.....If you're just going to die?

Many people are actually happy just being alive and learning. Having a finite time here on this wonderful planet makes life all the more precious. It is a shame to have all that knowledge just disappear, but then maybe on my deathbed I'll look on the bright side and be content about all the time I spent day dreaming instead of learning to conjugate verbs.

Very sad....I thank God everyday for making himself known to me. I know when I die, what I experienced will be used for my next lesson in life.

How someone can live believing that this is all there is....You really have to be brainwashing yourself.