Anything Special About the Christian Myth?

[CJK]

Throughout human history, there have been as many myths as there are people in the world.

For example, Dionysus. Dionysus, like Jesus, was said to have been from a mortal woman and fathered by a god, risen from the dead, and turned water into wine. People believed in Dionysus long before the bible.

So my question for debate is; What makes Christianity so special?

Could it truly be the 'one true prophecy'?

What is the difference between believing in a Greek God or a Christian God?

Note: Beliefs and opinions are no grounds to make a claim. (e.g. "Christianity is real because I say so.")

[1John2_26]

Atheism is "an opinion" founded on poutiness? The question? Is there anything speacial in the insult . . . so playground bully-ish; of the apllying the word "myth" to Christianity to cause a rise in Christians?

I sold my Marilyn Manson CD's long ago. Got twenty-five cents for them at the flea market.

The Greek deity Dionysus (also called Bacchus) is known by most people for his patronage of wine; he is best known, in the context of this series, as one from whom, supposedly, Jesus' Cana miracle was borrowed. It is quite right to note that the miracle of Dionysus (hereafter, merely "D" for convenience) comes from a record that postdates the first century, so that any influence must have been the other way around if at all -- more on this later. But both D, and the claims of copycatting, are much more complex than this, and D is "the most complex and multifacted of all the Greek gods." [Carp.MD, 1] D was not merely a god of wine, but a god of paradox; he was the god of the civilized theater, but also the god of wild, orgiastic behavior and drunkenness. He was a god of fertility, but also a god who comforted the dying. He is depicted sometimes as a maniacal, destructive figure, and at other times as an innocent child; sometimes as a bearded man, other times as an effeminiate youth. He is a god of sensuality and experience: "Dionysism throws itself wholeheartedly into savagery in seeking to possess and contact the supernatural." [Dan.GLE, 150] And, it is: "...an expression of the sensual joys of life unrestrained by the state and unchanneled by the patriarchal family." [Eva.GE, 37] Sum it up: Dionysism is a religion that celebrates the destruction of boundaries and the blurring of categories. It is no more like Christianity than Buddhism. So how is it that some argue that D and Christ are twins?

Dionysus is best seen generally as the god of reversals, of the breaking of categories and of the reversal of norms. His function as god of wine etc is, I think, largely a reflex of this, though the fertility thing certainly has an importance of its own. Personally, I wouldn't use the phrase 'civilized theater', since Greek theatre may have had its origins in distinctly uncivilised ritual worship (of Dionysus?). Also, the link with the theatre was challenged by Prof. Scott Scullion in an article in the last edition of Classical Quaterly (52/2002, 'Nothing to do with Dionysos?'), though it certainly holds good for the city of Athens

The answer, of course, is that they do it by arguing fallaciously. Modern scholars deep into the study of Dionysus perceive a common thread in these stories of D as one involved in sources of illusion (the theater, altered states of consciousness) and as one who has the ability to embody opposing qualities simultaneously [Hein.HHG, 14ff]. But few outside of the Freke-Gandy-S crowd, and few scholars, see in Dionysus any real parallel to the figure of Christ. There are exceptions: Evans [Eva.GE] thinks there are parallels in the birth, humanity (though D was not ever regarded with the "100% God, 100% man" idea), suffering, sacramentalism, and glory of Dionysus and Christ; but these are vaguely general and universal parallels, or not parallels at all (as we will see). For the most part, as with Mithraism, no such parallel is seen -- and the few that have been seen in the past by the less knowledgable are starting to fade away.

http://www.tektonics.org/copycat/dionysus.html

Sources
Bow.FH -- Bowersock, G. W. Fiction as History: From Nero to Julian. University of California, 1994.
Carp.MD -- Carpenter, Thomas H. and Christopher A. Faraone. Masks of Dionysos. Cornell U. Press, 1993.
Col.VFG -- Cole, Susan. "Voices from the Grave: Dionysus and the Dead." in Masks.
Dan.GLE -- Danielou, Alain. Gods of Love and Ecstasy: The Traditions of Shiva and Dionysus. Inner Traditions, 1982.
Det.DAL -- Detienne, Marcel. Dionysus at Large. Harvard U. Press, 1989.
Det.DS -- Detienne, Marcel. Dionysus Slain. Baltimore: Johns Hopkins, 1979.
Eva.GE -- Evans, Arthur. The God of Ecstasy. New York: St. Martins' Press, 1989.
Fraz.GB -- Frazer, James. The Golden Bough. New York: Avenel Books, 1981.
Harr.PRG -- Harrison, Jane. Prolegomena to the Study of Greek Religion. Cambridge U. Press, 1922.
Hein.HHG -- Heinrichs, Albert. "He Has a God in Him": Human and Divine in the Modern Perception of Dionysus." in Carpenter, Masks.
Obb.DPO -- Obbink, D. "Dionysus Poured Out: Ancient and Modern Theories of Sacrifice and Cultural Formation." in Carpenter, Masks.
Ott.DMC -- Otto, Walter F. Dionysus: Myth and Cult. Indiana U. Press, 1965.

[Lotan]

I sold my Marilyn Manson CD's long ago.

Do you have any Teletubbies videos? I'm in the market.

[Cephus]

No, there really isn't anything special about it, especially when you examine it closely. It succeeded mostly because it was imposed on the world by force at a time when people had little choice but to accept it due to poverty, illiteracy and ignorance. Christianity has been used to enforce classism, protect criminal behavior and murder the unbeliever because they could not be controlled by the church.

The only thing "special" about Christianity is it's history of barbarism.

[harvey1]

Throughout human history, there have been as many myths as there are people in the world. For example, Dionysus. Dionysus, like Jesus, was said to have been from a mortal woman and fathered by a god, risen from the dead, and turned water into wine. People believed in Dionysus long before the bible. So my question for debate is; What makes Christianity so special? Could it truly be the 'one true prophecy'?
What is the difference between believing in a Greek God or a Christian God? Note: Beliefs and opinions are no grounds to make a claim. (e.g. "Christianity is real because I say so.")

It's hard to make a claim of uniqueness since out of thousands of religions, someone somewhere is going to have that particular doctrine. Obviously certain numbers are going to be preferred by ancient religions because of their significance (e.g., 7 symbolic for "complete" since there were 7 known heavenly objects in ancient times: sun, Mercury, Venus, moon, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn).

However, what is unique about Christianity is a combination of certain features that made it much more appealing than its competitive religions:

1) Rejection of Gnosticism and Xenophobia: Generally speaking, Christianity was knowledge and a faith to be shared to others.

2) Personal Savior who was Rejected: This no doubt appealed to those who felt unsatisfied by an impersonal connection to their religion. The Christian God could be mediated to through Jesus who understood their short-comings.

3) An Easy Form of Jewish Worship: For those gentiles interested in the Jewish religion, the Christian faith was very appealing because it didn't require all the sacrifices that the Jewish faith demanded (e.g., Sabbath keeping, dietary meats, circumcision, etc.). This gave the Christian faith a base which it could use to spread to other cities.

4) Sacred Scriptures that were Fulfilled: Early Christians could cite the Hebrew bible and show how Jesus fulfilled those scriptures. For those looking for divine guidance, the fulfillment of these scriptures was convincing reason to believe.

5) Miracles and feeding the poor: The Christians believed heavily in miracles along with feeding the poor, and for those who needed miracles, food, shelter, etc., Christian ministers offered these things. For people in prison (or who were released from prison) it meant acceptance by a community when the rest of the world abandoned you.

6) Eschatology: Christianity provided a timeline as to what would happen next in the world, and therefore there was a great deal of excitement about hearing about the end and how it would occur, etc..

7) Community of Believers: Unlike many other faiths, Christianity had a more personal gathering of believers, and therefore not only did one find a faith, they found a strong human connection with others.

8 ) The Cleansing of One's Sins: Many people probably had regrets in their life that Christianity had a way of dealing with effectively: God wiping their sins wiped away.

9) Ability to Grow through Persecution: Since Christianity early on was a persecuted religion, it was able to bind closer together as a kind of allegiance to the Savior who also was martyr. As a result, Christianity only grew stronger in persecution.

10) Real news events: Unlike many other religions, Christianity was considered news of the day. The Savior had just died, and the eyewitnesses were moving about. The End was coming, etc.. It was a happening religion.

11) Gentiles being Favored: Gentiles were told that God had turned to the Gentiles, therefore Christianity quickly promoted within. That is, the ministers were local people and not foreigners. This perhaps made conversion easier than for a Greek woman to convert to the religion of other Greeks rather than convert from an Iranian minsiter.

12) No Clearly Stated Rules: Christianity was more liberal in that there weren't a whole series of rules to memorize and know. Not only did you not have to follow such rules, you could judge for yourself what rules were "spiritual" and which were "physical." This flexibility made belonging to the religion easier.

13) An Organized Set of Principles: Christianity was pretty simple. The world had gone astray because of the first human Adam, and God was trying to redeem the world before the endtime with the blood of his Son, Jesus. It wasn't a complicated religion, but yet it had a very simple and important message.

14) A strong commitment by the Evangelists: The major evangelists of the Church went to many locations, kept the faith together by having synods, and wrote and collected letters that formed the early New Testament. These efforts led to an early organized body, the Church, and from that there was an organism that could grow as a result.

15) A Number of Fortitious events: There were a few major events that gave Christianity its major popularity, including: a) Constantine's conversion, b) Pope Leo convincing Attali the Hun from attacking Rome, c) the conversion of the invading tribes (perhaps the most significant reason why Christianity survived), d) the establishment of monasteries, e) the establishment of the Vatican, f) the defeat of the Muslims (another major victory that would have destroyed Christianity), g) the acceptance of Aristotlean works into Christian learning centers, h) and the Protestant Reformation.

I'm sure I missed a number of elements that made Christianity unique. However, in my view Christianity barely survived and I doubt any of the early competitors would have survived. In all likelihood we would all be Muslim or have some form of descended religion from the invading tribes of Europe. Most likely we would not have science, and most of us would not have survived our 30th birthdays. Atheists and agnostics just don't know how lucky you are that Christianity came along.

[Chimp]

I have to agree with John on this one...if I thought there was a genuine
interest in the actual question, I might be inclinded to respond, but the
tone of the question seems more like bait than debate.

If you look at the timestamp on various threads, usually there is a tat thread
for a tit thread. A is bad because of x... X is satan ....etc...

[ST88]

However, what is unique about Christianity is a combination of certain features that made it much more appealing than its competitive religions:

You know, harv, those features that you mention make Christianity seem like the product of natural selection, not of spontaneous generation. These things were not acceptable, but Christianity didn't have them so it was acceptable.

In this way, I think the OP's idea has merit. Whether consciously or unconsciously, Christianity took what was working and left out what wasn't working in other religions. Your claim of concatenation seems to prove his point.

[McCulloch]

The Christian myth came to prominance at a time when it was needed. There was a requirement for a trans-national trans-ethnic religion in the Roman Empire. If Christianity was not adopted for that purpose, another religion would have been adopted.

[Tilia]

The Christian myth came to prominance at a time when it was needed. There was a requirement for a trans-national trans-ethnic religion in the Roman Empire. If Christianity was not adopted for that purpose, another religion would have been adopted.

I think you mean 'adapted'!

[1John2_26]

The great minds like Pascal, Locke, C.S. Lewis et al, prove a side of Christianity that would show that those that regard it a myth exist outside of legitimate debate.

Anger from people frustrated they haven't been let in on either the abilty to contemplate "God" or haven't felt His calling, have also had a long history.