Jesus Myth Theory

[d.thomas]

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Jesus myth theory, variously called Christ myth theory and the nonexistence hypothesis, among other names, is a term that has been applied to several theories that at their heart have one relatively common concept: the New Testament account of the life of Jesus is so filled with myth and legend as well as internal contradictions and historical irregularities that at best no meaningful historical verification regarding Jesus of Nazareth (including his very existence) can be extracted from them. However, as Archibald Robertson stated in his 1946 book Jesus: Myth Or History at least as far as John M. Robertson was concerned the myth theory was not concerned with denying the possibility of a flesh and blood Jesus being involved in the Gospel account but rather "What the myth theory denies is that Christianity can be traced to a personal founder who taught as reported in the Gospels and was put to death in the circumstances there recorded." more here:http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Jesus_myth_theory



Has anyone here read about this? In your opinion can Christianity be traced to a personal founder?


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[Clownboat]

This topic is far too emotionally charged for us to have a reasonable discussion. If we wanted to know if Pontius Pilate existed we could find out in a heartbeat without any dispute, but ask if Jesus existed and all hell breaks loose. What's with that?

There are many people that feel fantastic claims require fantastic evidence.

If someone claimed that Pontius Pilate existed, that's one thing. If that someone then claimed that he walked on water or came back to life after being dead, would you not require more evidence for that (or would you believe it just because someone told you or because you read it in a book)?

Savy?

[Goat]

This topic is far too emotionally charged for us to have a reasonable discussion. If we wanted to know if Pontius Pilate existed we could find out in a heartbeat without any dispute, but ask if Jesus existed and all hell breaks loose. What's with that?

There are many people that feel fantastic claims require fantastic evidence.

If someone claimed that Pontius Pilate existed, that's one thing. If that someone then claimed that he walked on water or came back to life after being dead, would you not require more evidence for that (or would you believe it just because someone told you or because you read it in a book)?

Savy?

It's more than that It is more like 'Pontius Pilate walked on water, and if you don't believe it, you are going to be tortured forever'

[BigRed]

I don't put much stock in the myth hypothesis. There seems to be enough external evidence (Tacitus, Suetonius, etc.) to establish that a man named Jesus most likely existed in 1st-century Palestine. Obviously, the miracle stories, etc., are not true, but given the historical accounts mentioning Jesus, the burden of proof seems to be on those who assert he never existed.

Oh, the miracles are NOT true are they, obviously?

OK, prove that.

I think, as has been discussed in the previous dozen versions of this discussion that where the evidence and provability breaks down in the difference between historical and gospel Jesus.

In short, we can neither prove nor disprove the miracles of Jesus, which would have been difficult even in his time, but which is well neigh impossible 2,000 years after the fact.

All we have is the record of honest men who claim to have witnessed them. They could have been lying, but possibility is not probability, which is in turn not certainty (or obviously).

Please bear in mind that there are documented miracles occurring now, which only gives us less reason to doubt the claims made 2,000 years ago.

http://christiancadre.blogspot.com/2009 ... acles.html

In short, the only reason you have arrived at a position of such certainly is because of your faith choice.

Prove me wrong.

When Jesus was with his Apostles in the garden of Gethsemane, [Mark 14:32-50] when Judas and the men came for Jesus with swords and clubs, the Apostles feared for their lives and they ran away. ""And they all left Him and fled."" [Mark 14:50] Had the Apostles actually witnessed Jesus healing the sick and injured, walking on water, and raising the dead, they would have had nothing to fear. The safest place to be would be with a man who could perform these fabulous miracles. But the Apostles ran for their lives because the miracles in the gospels never happened.
BigRed

[Regens Küchl]

Jesus never existed and it is provable. Please read the Proof here
http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/

Furthermore user Alter2Ego made a thread in this forum - and in Zillion other Forums - called : "Jesus Christ Myth or historical person".

Just google. You wont believe what you see

I was very pleased to see how many people everywhere succesfully refuted her claim of a historical Jesus.


Proof Tacitus Manuscript was Altered


Jesus Has Left the Building, Part 1 (The Bible)

[BigRed]

And that is the point. You have no more reasons for your denial as listed above than we do in our affirmation DI. You site Christian biases, but have you examined your own?

And yes, if there are group of men whose testimony of Jesus and what he is saying is accurate ... it does mean something.

Why do you think so many atheists have spent so much time on the Jesus Myth is it means nothing?

The Gospels were written anonymously, in a foreign language, in foreign countries from Judah. I think this bears upon the credibility of the Gospels.

[BigRed]

There is no evidence that Jesus was the son of god. None. Zilch. Nada.

All we have are unreliable scriptures and the personal testimony of people who claim they have evidence but suspiciously never get around to articulating exactly what that evidence is.

Until somebody provides me evidence for Jesus I can't justify it.

All Israel are sons of God.
Didn't Jesus teach people to pray, "OUR FATHER, who art in Heaven....?

[Goat]

There is no evidence that Jesus was the son of god. None. Zilch. Nada.

All we have are unreliable scriptures and the personal testimony of people who claim they have evidence but suspiciously never get around to articulating exactly what that evidence is.

Until somebody provides me evidence for Jesus I can't justify it.

All Israel are sons of God.
Didn't Jesus teach people to pray, "OUR FATHER, who art in Heaven....?

Well, it's more than that.

The lesson of the story of Adam and Eve (or one lesson) is that EVERYONE are brothers/sisters/cousins, and all are 'the children of God'

[BigRed]

DI, I gave you EXACTLY what you asked for ... a demonstration of merit that meet Ph.D level scrutiny.

I cannot post the entire volumes into this debate forum, all I can say is that the academic record is fully justified and accepted ... if you refuse to read what has been practically delivered into your hands ... I cannot help you.

I cannot force you to educate yourself about the very thing you demand accredited education about.

If you refuse to read exactly what you ask for ... well, that says a lot about the evidenced views of atheism.

I'm sorry stubbornone, but your claims here are simply false.

You have not provided for me with anything of the sort.

Moreover pointing someone to entire volumes of books in a debate and accusing them of refusing to concede defeat if they don't rush out and read these massive volumes of books is truly nothing but a very cheap shot.

Give me your BEST SHOT stubbornone.

Present me with a few of what you consider to be the BEST POINTS made in these volumes of books that you are pointing to. Convince me that these books are onto anything at all.

Here's a very simple assignment for you:

Make a short list, of what you consider to be the TEN BEST POINTS made in these volume of books you are pointing to.

I'll look them over and I'm willing to bet that I will most likely end up explaining to you precisely why none of them are even remotely impressive.

In fact, I'm willing to bet that they are nothing more than the same old apologetic arguments that I've already heard over and over again more times than I can count.

I already did DI.

I gave three volumes of history, all peer reviewed detailing the evidence and widely accepted claims of Jesus to the PH.D level.

Please tell me why your opinion stands as a greater badge of merit than the Ph.D level peer review process?

The evidence for Jesus is as solid as that of just about any other period character, and stronger than almost ALL religious figures of the period. You can indeed prove that he was there and that he preached ... and what he preached lead to the creation of the largest religion in the world.

And you stand there and declare that entire process 'simple apologetics' withou merit?

Again, you can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink. That is indeed the problem with certain atheists.

If Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins
[1Cor 15:17]

Paul’s declaration indicates that your “Faith� depends primarily on the resurrection of Jesus. If the story of Jesus’ resurrection is not true then you are wasting your time, money and emotion on a fraud.

What credible evidence exists for the resurrection of Jesus?
Most of the evidence is second hand hearsay concerning Mary Magdalene.
Now after He had risen early on the first day of the week, He first appeared to Mary Magdalene, from whom He had cast out seven demons.Mark 16:9
Instead of 7 demons, think mental incompetent, worthless testimony.

BigRed

[d.thomas]

This topic is far too emotionally charged for us to have a reasonable discussion. If we wanted to know if Pontius Pilate existed we could find out in a heartbeat without any dispute, but ask if Jesus existed and all hell breaks loose. What's with that?

There are many people that feel fantastic claims require fantastic evidence.

If someone claimed that Pontius Pilate existed, that's one thing. If that someone then claimed that he walked on water or came back to life after being dead, would you not require more evidence for that (or would you believe it just because someone told you or because you read it in a book)?

Savy?

Savy, a word used by those whom of which do not know how to spell savvy.

[TheTruth101]

DI, I gave you EXACTLY what you asked for ... a demonstration of merit that meet Ph.D level scrutiny.

I cannot post the entire volumes into this debate forum, all I can say is that the academic record is fully justified and accepted ... if you refuse to read what has been practically delivered into your hands ... I cannot help you.

I cannot force you to educate yourself about the very thing you demand accredited education about.

If you refuse to read exactly what you ask for ... well, that says a lot about the evidenced views of atheism.

I'm sorry stubbornone, but your claims here are simply false.

You have not provided for me with anything of the sort.

Moreover pointing someone to entire volumes of books in a debate and accusing them of refusing to concede defeat if they don't rush out and read these massive volumes of books is truly nothing but a very cheap shot.

Give me your BEST SHOT stubbornone.

Present me with a few of what you consider to be the BEST POINTS made in these volumes of books that you are pointing to. Convince me that these books are onto anything at all.

Here's a very simple assignment for you:

Make a short list, of what you consider to be the TEN BEST POINTS made in these volume of books you are pointing to.

I'll look them over and I'm willing to bet that I will most likely end up explaining to you precisely why none of them are even remotely impressive.

In fact, I'm willing to bet that they are nothing more than the same old apologetic arguments that I've already heard over and over again more times than I can count.

I already did DI.

I gave three volumes of history, all peer reviewed detailing the evidence and widely accepted claims of Jesus to the PH.D level.

Please tell me why your opinion stands as a greater badge of merit than the Ph.D level peer review process?

The evidence for Jesus is as solid as that of just about any other period character, and stronger than almost ALL religious figures of the period. You can indeed prove that he was there and that he preached ... and what he preached lead to the creation of the largest religion in the world.

And you stand there and declare that entire process 'simple apologetics' withou merit?

Again, you can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink. That is indeed the problem with certain atheists.

If Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins
[1Cor 15:17]

Paul’s declaration indicates that your “Faith� depends primarily on the resurrection of Jesus. If the story of Jesus’ resurrection is not true then you are wasting your time, money and emotion on a fraud.

What credible evidence exists for the resurrection of Jesus?
Most of the evidence is second hand hearsay concerning Mary Magdalene.
Now after He had risen early on the first day of the week, He first appeared to Mary Magdalene, from whom He had cast out seven demons.Mark 16:9
Instead of 7 demons, think mental incompetent, worthless testimony.

BigRed

7 demons and 7 spirits of God. Think about that one. It's the same being, Yahweh and Satan.


Other then that. The Apostles creed states he rose to heavens.

His body also went missing. Was not in the cascket.

Also, he showed up in constantines dream to make him spread his gospel.

Just to name a few.