Christian Forums ...Why?

[KCKID]

For a few weeks I've been 'lurking' on another Christian Forum wondering whether or not to sign up. Since I generally choose my battles to fight - those that I have an interest/knowledge in or, indeed, those that I may be quite passionate about - I DO have a habit of coming on pretty strong from the get-go. This, quite naturally, irks the 'oldies' of the forum somewhat that someone no one knows dares to jump in and rock the boat with barely a 'how-do-you-do'. I may very well feel the same about a new kid in town questioning something that we 'old timers' have already pretty well established. But, I hope not.

While I don't know if I should, or even that I'm allowed to, mention the forum by name, I DID sign up to it so that I could respond to a specific post that really annoyed me. The thread is about homosexuality/gay marriage (naturally) and is, as usual, a hot topic. I should have known better than to put in my nickel's worth because most of the posts on the 41 pages of debate (well, it's hardly a debate) are hostile to homosexuality because 'God sez that it's an abomination' and that's that! It was just like the lamb among the wolves scenerio and, as said, I should have known better. But, this one particular post by an 'old timer' and very popular with the other religious zealots made the claim: "The Lord finds homosexuality/gay marriage to be reprehensible." I just couldn't let that lie pass without some kind of recourse. So, I asked of the poster to either present the scripture that states that Jesus finds homosexuality/gay marriage to be reprehensible or retract the statement. I also said that I'd respect him for retracting the statement which would be the right thing for him to do since such a scripture does not exist and that I'd raise the issue no more. Well, all hell has broken loose by the poster in question and his band of like-minded forum buddies. I'm a stone's throw away from being banned (not that I really want to stick around anyway) simply because I asked for scripture to back the claim or a withdrawal of the statement. Obviously, I have the guy backed into a corner ...I know it and he knows it.

Question/s: Why would such a reasonable question from me cause such a furore among professed Christians on a Christian Forum? I wanted scripture or retraction. The insults that have been hurled at me are SO unreasonable that they border on frothing-at-the-mouth hysteria. Have any of you experienced anything similar from such a band of merry men who tend to follow the leader and will resort to and continue to perpetuate lies rather than be seen to be backing down? Why is it SO important for some Christians on Christian sites to hurl their hate message at homosexual people (or those they consider to be 'their supporters') that they refuse to even CONSIDER other alternatives or interpretations of the scriptures that they use to do so? What kind of mentality is taking place among Christians when the term 'debate' is seen to be a threat?

Obviously, I have my own theories but I'd be interested in input from the rest of you as I'm always anxious to learn something new.

[southern cross]

Christians are in a difficult situation if they know enough about the words suppose to be quoted by Jesus and how it relates to the old testament........

Christ makes it very clear that the law of the old testament will not be tampered with and will remain intact..........he claims to fullfill that law.............he makes reference to both the garden and the flood as actual events..............he also reference to slavery without ever condeming it.

If a person of faith has read the whole Bible they would see that the clash of old the new testament is completely and culturally lost in dealing with social issues today.

I don't see how this is a difficult situation. The Bible addresses issues that happen today. In my opinion, the fact that some groups don't like or accept the way the Bible addresses these issue doesn't put Christians in a difficult situation at all. The Bible is not a book that is meant to be updated every so many years to reflect the current issues. If you read it carefully it addressed them when it was first written and those principles still stand today.

Rape and genocide and the slaughter of innocents is always appropriate. Now I get it.

[charles_hamm]

Christians are in a difficult situation if they know enough about the words suppose to be quoted by Jesus and how it relates to the old testament........

Christ makes it very clear that the law of the old testament will not be tampered with and will remain intact..........he claims to fullfill that law.............he makes reference to both the garden and the flood as actual events..............he also reference to slavery without ever condeming it.

If a person of faith has read the whole Bible they would see that the clash of old the new testament is completely and culturally lost in dealing with social issues today.

I don't see how this is a difficult situation. The Bible addresses issues that happen today. In my opinion, the fact that some groups don't like or accept the way the Bible addresses these issue doesn't put Christians in a difficult situation at all. The Bible is not a book that is meant to be updated every so many years to reflect the current issues. If you read it carefully it addressed them when it was first written and those principles still stand today.

Rape and genocide and the slaughter of innocents is always appropriate. Now I get it.

Please provide specific examples and I'll address them. Otherwise I don't see where you are going here.

[Ooberman]

Christians are in a difficult situation if they know enough about the words suppose to be quoted by Jesus and how it relates to the old testament........

Christ makes it very clear that the law of the old testament will not be tampered with and will remain intact..........he claims to fullfill that law.............he makes reference to both the garden and the flood as actual events..............he also reference to slavery without ever condeming it.

If a person of faith has read the whole Bible they would see that the clash of old the new testament is completely and culturally lost in dealing with social issues today.

Jesus also praises men like Moses and Samson, the Hitler and Suicide bombers of their day.

Please provide proof Moses was like Hitler and Samson was a suicide bomber or please retract your statement.

Moses was a genocidal maniac, doing what he thought best for his race, like Hitler.

Samson pulled down the columns of the temple while there were women and children inside, because he believed it was for God - like a suicide bomber.

Read the Bible and you will see.


Oh, and Jesus is worst of all. He promises to come back and kill everyone.



BTW, I expect a few hundred years from now the argument that people make for Moses against the Canaanites will be applied to the Jews and Hitler.

"They were evil, and God knew the only solution was exterminate them. SO, he acted through Hitler to do his Will."

I can already see Apologists getting ready to explain how great Hitler was, and how Good God was to tell him to do it...

[southern cross]

Christians are in a difficult situation if they know enough about the words suppose to be quoted by Jesus and how it relates to the old testament........

Christ makes it very clear that the law of the old testament will not be tampered with and will remain intact..........he claims to fullfill that law.............he makes reference to both the garden and the flood as actual events..............he also reference to slavery without ever condeming it.

If a person of faith has read the whole Bible they would see that the clash of old the new testament is completely and culturally lost in dealing with social issues today.

I don't see how this is a difficult situation. The Bible addresses issues that happen today. In my opinion, the fact that some groups don't like or accept the way the Bible addresses these issue doesn't put Christians in a difficult situation at all. The Bible is not a book that is meant to be updated every so many years to reflect the current issues. If you read it carefully it addressed them when it was first written and those principles still stand today.

Rape and genocide and the slaughter of innocents is always appropriate. Now I get it.

Please provide specific examples and I'll address them. Otherwise I don't see where you are going here.

After you've read the bible come back and we can discuss it, ok?

[charles_hamm]

Christians are in a difficult situation if they know enough about the words suppose to be quoted by Jesus and how it relates to the old testament........

Christ makes it very clear that the law of the old testament will not be tampered with and will remain intact..........he claims to fullfill that law.............he makes reference to both the garden and the flood as actual events..............he also reference to slavery without ever condeming it.

If a person of faith has read the whole Bible they would see that the clash of old the new testament is completely and culturally lost in dealing with social issues today.

I don't see how this is a difficult situation. The Bible addresses issues that happen today. In my opinion, the fact that some groups don't like or accept the way the Bible addresses these issue doesn't put Christians in a difficult situation at all. The Bible is not a book that is meant to be updated every so many years to reflect the current issues. If you read it carefully it addressed them when it was first written and those principles still stand today.

Rape and genocide and the slaughter of innocents is always appropriate. Now I get it.

Please provide specific examples and I'll address them. Otherwise I don't see where you are going here.

After you've read the bible come back and we can discuss it, ok?

I've read it. Like I asked previously, please provide examples.

[charles_hamm]

Christians are in a difficult situation if they know enough about the words suppose to be quoted by Jesus and how it relates to the old testament........

Christ makes it very clear that the law of the old testament will not be tampered with and will remain intact..........he claims to fullfill that law.............he makes reference to both the garden and the flood as actual events..............he also reference to slavery without ever condeming it.

If a person of faith has read the whole Bible they would see that the clash of old the new testament is completely and culturally lost in dealing with social issues today.

Jesus also praises men like Moses and Samson, the Hitler and Suicide bombers of their day.

Please provide proof Moses was like Hitler and Samson was a suicide bomber or please retract your statement.

Moses was a genocidal maniac, doing what he thought best for his race, like Hitler.

Moses did not kill the Egyptians or the Canaanites so how is he a genocidal maniac? He told the Pharaoh to release the Jewish peoples or God would pour out his wrath on the Egyptians. Pharaoh refused more than once. God placed a judgement on the Canaanites for their sins (see Leviticus 18:21-30 for a list of their sins). I will ask how this is anything like Hitler?

Samson pulled down the columns of the temple while there were women and children inside, because he believed it was for God - like a suicide bomber.

Samson was captured by his enemies, the Philistines and placed in a Gaza prison. He was humiliated by gouging out his eyes. During a Philistine ceremony he was paraded into the temple where he pulled down the columns killing his enemies. How is this like a suicide bomber?

Read the Bible and you will see.

I have. I think you might want to read it a little closer. These people were not as you have described them.

Oh, and Jesus is worst of all. He promises to come back and kill everyone.

Actually he promises to take all those who believe in him to Heaven. I believe that even after the tribulation God offers mankind another chance to be saved and those that refuse are sent to Hell.

BTW, I expect a few hundred years from now the argument that people make for Moses against the Canaanites will be applied to the Jews and Hitler.

"They were evil, and God knew the only solution was exterminate them. SO, he acted through Hitler to do his Will."

I can already see Apologists getting ready to explain how great Hitler was, and how Good God was to tell him to do it...

Then I guess it's good I don't have to make an argument for Moses. The Bible has already provided everything needed to show someone who he really was.

[Ooberman]

Christians are in a difficult situation if they know enough about the words suppose to be quoted by Jesus and how it relates to the old testament........

Christ makes it very clear that the law of the old testament will not be tampered with and will remain intact..........he claims to fullfill that law.............he makes reference to both the garden and the flood as actual events..............he also reference to slavery without ever condeming it.

If a person of faith has read the whole Bible they would see that the clash of old the new testament is completely and culturally lost in dealing with social issues today.

Jesus also praises men like Moses and Samson, the Hitler and Suicide bombers of their day.

Please provide proof Moses was like Hitler and Samson was a suicide bomber or please retract your statement.

Moses was a genocidal maniac, doing what he thought best for his race, like Hitler.

Moses did not kill the Egyptians or the Canaanites so how is he a genocidal maniac? He told the Pharaoh to release the Jewish peoples or God would pour out his wrath on the Egyptians. Pharaoh refused more than once. God placed a judgement on the Canaanites for their sins (see Leviticus 18:21-30 for a list of their sins). I will ask how this is anything like Hitler?

I don't believe in God. Therefore, it was Moses commanding his army to commit genocide. Claiming God told him to do it is just a whitewash.

Those poor Canaanites and Midianites. They are demonized in history for being victims - because their murderer told everyone they were evil.
I imagine this is what will happen with the Jews.

Samson pulled down the columns of the temple while there were women and children inside, because he believed it was for God - like a suicide bomber.

Samson was captured by his enemies, the Philistines and placed in a Gaza prison. He was humiliated by gouging out his eyes. During a Philistine ceremony he was paraded into the temple where he pulled down the columns killing his enemies. How is this like a suicide bomber?

He was captured because he had killed so many of them. That they spared his life was a generous gesture on their part.

He flies into a rage and kills thirty Philistines of Ashkelon for their garments, which he gives his thirty groomsmen.[9][10][6] Still in a rage, he returns to his father's house and finds out that his bride has been given to another man as wife.[9][10][6] Her father refuses to allow him to see her and wishes to give Samson the younger sister.[10][6] Samson attaches torches to the tails of three hundred foxes, leaving the panicked beasts to run through the fields of the Philistines, burning all in their wake.[9][10][6] The Philistines find out why Samson burned their crops and they burn Samson's wife and father-in-law to death.[11][10][6] In revenge, Samson slaughters many more Philistines, smiting them "hip and thigh".[10][6]


Samson then takes refuge in a cave in the rock of Etam.[10][6][12] An army of Philistines goes up and demands that 3000 men of Judah deliver them Samson.[6][12] With Samson's consent, they tie him with two new ropes and are about to hand him over to the Philistines when he breaks free.[11][12] Using the jawbone of an ass, he slays one thousand Philistines.[13][11][12] At the conclusion of Judges 15 it is said that "Samson led Israel for twenty years in the days of the Philistines".[12]

He was a monster. He was a monster for 20 years, terrorizing the land. And he was a monster to the end.

Oh, and Jesus is worst of all. He promises to come back and kill everyone.

Actually he promises to take all those who believe in him to Heaven. I believe that even after the tribulation God offers mankind another chance to be saved and those that refuse are sent to Hell.

Lot's of people believe a lot of things.

[PghPanther]

Christians are in a difficult situation if they know enough about the words suppose to be quoted by Jesus and how it relates to the old testament........

Christ makes it very clear that the law of the old testament will not be tampered with and will remain intact..........he claims to fullfill that law.............he makes reference to both the garden and the flood as actual events..............he also reference to slavery without ever condeming it.

If a person of faith has read the whole Bible they would see that the clash of old the new testament is completely and culturally lost in dealing with social issues today.

I don't see how this is a difficult situation. The Bible addresses issues that happen today. In my opinion, the fact that some groups don't like or accept the way the Bible addresses these issue doesn't put Christians in a difficult situation at all. The Bible is not a book that is meant to be updated every so many years to reflect the current issues. If you read it carefully it addressed them when it was first written and those principles still stand today.

Principles still stand today?..................owning slaves and the right to beat them until near death?........................stoning children to death for cursing their parents? .......I could go one but you can read it for yourself.......

and Christ saying this about those laws from Moses?........Mathew 5:18?

[PhiloKGB]

Matthew 5:32
But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except on the ground of sexual immorality, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

This is the exception claus for sexual immorality.

It's Matthew's exception. Mark seems to know nothing about it. Furthermore, it does not permit remarriage as you suggest.

[charles_hamm]

Christians are in a difficult situation if they know enough about the words suppose to be quoted by Jesus and how it relates to the old testament........

Christ makes it very clear that the law of the old testament will not be tampered with and will remain intact..........he claims to fullfill that law.............he makes reference to both the garden and the flood as actual events..............he also reference to slavery without ever condeming it.

If a person of faith has read the whole Bible they would see that the clash of old the new testament is completely and culturally lost in dealing with social issues today.

Jesus also praises men like Moses and Samson, the Hitler and Suicide bombers of their day.

Please provide proof Moses was like Hitler and Samson was a suicide bomber or please retract your statement.

Moses was a genocidal maniac, doing what he thought best for his race, like Hitler.

Moses did not kill the Egyptians or the Canaanites so how is he a genocidal maniac? He told the Pharaoh to release the Jewish peoples or God would pour out his wrath on the Egyptians. Pharaoh refused more than once. God placed a judgement on the Canaanites for their sins (see Leviticus 18:21-30 for a list of their sins). I will ask how this is anything like Hitler?

I don't believe in God. Therefore, it was Moses commanding his army to commit genocide. Claiming God told him to do it is just a whitewash.

Your lack of belief in God is not relevant here. I do notice you left out the Egyptians and added the Midianites instead. Midianites seduced Israeli men into worshiping a false God. Canaanites were enemies of the Jews. You still haven't provided any proof.

Those poor Canaanites and Midianites. They are demonized in history for being victims - because their murderer told everyone they were evil.
I imagine this is what will happen with the Jews.

They were enemies of the Jews. That is not demonizing them. That is simply a fact. Their religious practices are documented in and out of the Bible so they are not demonized there either.

Samson pulled down the columns of the temple while there were women and children inside, because he believed it was for God - like a suicide bomber.

Samson was captured by his enemies, the Philistines and placed in a Gaza prison. He was humiliated by gouging out his eyes. During a Philistine ceremony he was paraded into the temple where he pulled down the columns killing his enemies. How is this like a suicide bomber?

He was captured because he had killed so many of them. That they spared his life was a generous gesture on their part.

He flies into a rage and kills thirty Philistines of Ashkelon for their garments, which he gives his thirty groomsmen.[9][10][6] Still in a rage, he returns to his father's house and finds out that his bride has been given to another man as wife.[9][10][6] Her father refuses to allow him to see her and wishes to give Samson the younger sister.[10][6] Samson attaches torches to the tails of three hundred foxes, leaving the panicked beasts to run through the fields of the Philistines, burning all in their wake.[9][10][6] The Philistines find out why Samson burned their crops and they burn Samson's wife and father-in-law to death.[11][10][6] In revenge, Samson slaughters many more Philistines, smiting them "hip and thigh".[10][6]


Samson then takes refuge in a cave in the rock of Etam.[10][6][12] An army of Philistines goes up and demands that 3000 men of Judah deliver them Samson.[6][12] With Samson's consent, they tie him with two new ropes and are about to hand him over to the Philistines when he breaks free.[11][12] Using the jawbone of an ass, he slays one thousand Philistines.[13][11][12] At the conclusion of Judges 15 it is said that "Samson led Israel for twenty years in the days of the Philistines".[12]

He was a monster. He was a monster for 20 years, terrorizing the land. And he was a monster to the end.

Oh, and Jesus is worst of all. He promises to come back and kill everyone.

Read the entire context and you will see that they threatened his wife and made her do their bidding because they could figure out his riddle. Samson knew they did this so to fill his promise to give them 30 garments. His groomsmen were Philistines. His wifes father denies him his wife and has her married to another man while still married to Samson. I would say his wrath is just here. The Philistines then burn and KILL samsons wife and father-in-law and he exacts revenge for their deaths. The Philistines then try to arrest him for killing these men but do nothing to the men who murdered Samson's wife. Then he kills all of the Philistines. That really sounds like a monster to me. He kills liars and thieves. He kills murders.

Actually he promises to take all those who believe in him to Heaven. I believe that even after the tribulation God offers mankind another chance to be saved and those that refuse are sent to Hell.

Lot's of people believe a lot of things.

Yep. Some even believe there is no God.