Let's cut to the chase. Do you have any evidence?

[no evidence no belief]

I feel like we've been beating around the bush for... 6000 years!

Can you please either provide some evidence for your supernatural beliefs, or admit that you have no evidence?

If you believe there once was a talking donkey (Numbers 22) could you please provide evidence?

If you believe there once was a zombie invasion in Jerusalem (Mat 27) could you please provide evidence?

If you believe in the flying horse (Islam) could you please provide evidence?

Walking on water, virgin births, radioactive spiders who give you superpowers, turning water into wine, turning iron into gold, demons, goblins, ghosts, hobbits, elves, angels, unicorns and Santa.

Can you PLEASE provide evidence?

[charles_hamm]

Disproving Time Cube would be the first step in proving God.

Yes Time Cube is totaly insain and crazy but hey, no one has dispoven it, the smartest man in the world has said so (he declared himself the smartest man on his web page) so why not?

There is no evidance other then a handfull of dates for some locations and some kings, and I've asked for THAT and have not even gotten that list from Christans, so maybe they do not have anything. The whole dodge "what kind of evidance" is nothing more then equivaqion. You got nothing, admit you have nothing but faith -I've seen christans do it before, so do it again and at least I can respect that.

You can't disprove something that hasn't even been defined yet. No one but apparently "the wisest man on the earth" understands what he's talking about. The simplist response to his time cube is that God must necessarily exist outside of time, otherwise time could not have been created by Him and therefore he would not be omnipotent.

[no evidence no belief]

Disproving Time Cube would be the first step in proving God.

Yes Time Cube is totaly insain and crazy but hey, no one has dispoven it, the smartest man in the world has said so (he declared himself the smartest man on his web page) so why not?

There is no evidance other then a handfull of dates for some locations and some kings, and I've asked for THAT and have not even gotten that list from Christans, so maybe they do not have anything. The whole dodge "what kind of evidance" is nothing more then equivaqion. You got nothing, admit you have nothing but faith -I've seen christans do it before, so do it again and at least I can respect that.

You can't disprove something that hasn't even been defined yet. No one but apparently "the wisest man on the earth" understands what he's talking about. The simplist response to his time cube is that God must necessarily exist outside of time, otherwise time could not have been created by Him and therefore he would not be omnipotent.

Yeah, nobody cares about about this Time Cube BS.

Do you have any evidence for any of your supernatural beliefs? If not, why are you on my thread?

[PghPanther]

My greatest concern of all this.... is of claims made in scriptures of extraordinary events when the documentation process of these claims is horrendously flawed as a historical process......Let’s stay with the New Testament for example…………………

First, no eye witness accounts cannot be established in first generation authored manuscripts.....and eye witness accounts even if they were able to be documented are of no use when considering they are from so long ago by rationally ignorant bronze age peasants at a time when the dominant world view of superstition and spirits was sans of any rational scientific reasoning in regards to all natural phenomenon.

And how these Holy Grail claims of eyewitness accounts are preserved?

Decades of "oral tradition" or careful story telling among believers (I'm sure without any exaggeration and embellishment of the actual events) passed on by generations………and then finally written down in another country by another language (Greek) from where the events occurred in which we can’t even find a 3rd or 4th generation manuscript copy let along the originals and all of these without any way to document authorship?

And now with thousands of manuscripts of all this in which none of them agree and some are in direct contrast of others in their belief………….added with documentation of forgeries and made up stories put in later copies that were still added to the canon to simply establish an orthodoxy by the dominant church on consensus of what to believe?

God has all this relevation to man and then uses this process to preserve it?

Now consider today we have plenty of worthless eye witness accounts and claims of ufo contact, abductions , etc…………….and eye witness accounts of Charlie Manson levitating a bus in the dessert by his followers?........and the mega maniac Jim Jones and his followers claimed he healed the sick and walked on water?

Why don’t we take those more recent eye witness accounts seriously?? ………………but over a billion people on this planet consider those of peasants 2,000 years ago as more accurate?

Simple.......none of the claims and miracles ever written about in the Bible could pass today for legitimate stories.............that's why this stuff was built at a time when legends could be established without the scrutiny of scientific documentation.

[Clownboat]

AdHoc,

I think its the other way around maybe. Maybe it's 8 buns and 10 dogs or 8 dogs and 10 buns.

EITHER WAY IT DONT MAKE NO SENSE

It does from a marketing stand point, but that is all.

[no evidence no belief]

AdHoc,

I think its the other way around maybe. Maybe it's 8 buns and 10 dogs or 8 dogs and 10 buns.

EITHER WAY IT DONT MAKE NO SENSE

It does from a marketing stand point, but that is all.

It totally makes sense. You have 8 buns and 10 dogs, what are you left with at the end? 2 dogs. So what do you do? Buy a fresh pack of buns. So then what are you left with? 6 buns. so what do you do? Buy more dogs.

Anyway does ANYBODY have ANY evidence for ANY supernatural claim?

Is this a unilateral surrender from the supernatural community?

[Clownboat]

AdHoc,

I think its the other way around maybe. Maybe it's 8 buns and 10 dogs or 8 dogs and 10 buns.

EITHER WAY IT DONT MAKE NO SENSE

It does from a marketing stand point, but that is all.

It totally makes sense. You have 8 buns and 10 dogs, what are you left with at the end? 2 dogs. So what do you do? Buy a fresh pack of buns. So then what are you left with? 6 buns. so what do you do? Buy more dogs.

Anyway does ANYBODY have ANY evidence for ANY supernatural claim?

Is this a unilateral surrender from the supernatural community?

I'm no longer a believer, but how about this:
God no longer does miracles, because now that we have the Bible, miracles are not needed.

[Cephus]

AdHoc,

I think its the other way around maybe. Maybe it's 8 buns and 10 dogs or 8 dogs and 10 buns.

EITHER WAY IT DONT MAKE NO SENSE

It does from a marketing stand point, but that is all.

It totally makes sense. You have 8 buns and 10 dogs, what are you left with at the end? 2 dogs. So what do you do? Buy a fresh pack of buns. So then what are you left with? 6 buns. so what do you do? Buy more dogs.

Anyway does ANYBODY have ANY evidence for ANY supernatural claim?

Is this a unilateral surrender from the supernatural community?

I'm no longer a believer, but how about this:
God no longer does miracles, because now that we have the Bible, miracles are not needed.

How is that evidence of anything?

[PghPanther]

AdHoc,

I think its the other way around maybe. Maybe it's 8 buns and 10 dogs or 8 dogs and 10 buns.

EITHER WAY IT DONT MAKE NO SENSE

It does from a marketing stand point, but that is all.

It totally makes sense. You have 8 buns and 10 dogs, what are you left with at the end? 2 dogs. So what do you do? Buy a fresh pack of buns. So then what are you left with? 6 buns. so what do you do? Buy more dogs.

Anyway does ANYBODY have ANY evidence for ANY supernatural claim?

Is this a unilateral surrender from the supernatural community?

I'm no longer a believer, but how about this:
God no longer does miracles, because now that we have the Bible, miracles are not needed.

But how would a Christian defend the position that Paul appoints members in the church to perform miracles? Did he think after the Revelation of John was written that wouldn't happen anymore? 1st Cor. 12:28

What about is explaining how to heal the sick in church by laying hands on them in James 5;14 ?......

Or Jesus saying that anyone who believes in me can do this?......see Mark 16 17-18?

It would be a joke on the all the believers from Paul, James and Christ if these commands where to stop after the bible...............beside God didn't commend to have a bible canonized.......men in church power did that....

That whole mess reeks of legend and/or embellishment story telling based of one of the many rabbis named Jesus in those days..before it was even suspectly written down

If you believe any of this stuff you have only the position to understand that Paul and James (and Jesus) intended for these gifts to continue among the believers until Christ's return......

[Mithrae]

Let's see what I can manage in 10 minutes for a laugh...

Jesus was said to be the Messiah. Paul by his own account first persecuted that movement, then converted to become one of its major evangelists (Galations 1). We can't be sure why, but this gives us prima facie reason to not dismiss Jesus out of hand.

Jesus is alleged to have said that 'til heaven and earth pass away, his words would not be lost (Mark 13 etc.). When Mark was written, Christianity was an insignificant Jewish/Gentile cult suffering sporadic persecution. But 2000 years later, Jesus' words remain..

Around the 6th century BCE, the Jewish visionary Daniel wrote that 7 and 62 'sevens' after a decree to rebuild Jerusalem, a 'messiah' would be 'cut off,' which would be followed by the destruction of the temple. The only recorded decree for the rebuilding of Jerusalem in the Tanakh is in Nehemiah 2 (c. 446 BCE) - 62 sevens later is around 18 BCE, when Herod began his majestic temple upgrades, and 7 sevens after that is around 32 CE... Those figures are wrong, but I don't have time to calculate properly. There is a less than 1% margin of error for the vision to be fulfilled by Jesus. And shortly afterwards, the Jewish temple was indeed destroyed (70CE).

The gospel of John was written by a disciple of Jesus (stated in 1 John 1:1-3, John 1:14, 19:35, and confirmed in the appendix); so too, allegedly, was 1 Peter, and the gospel of Mark was believed to have been written by Peter's interpretor (a plausible conclusion). John's brother James was executed by Herod for his membership of the Christian sect (Acts 8 or so), and Peter was allegedly imprisoned. But despite those risks of persecution, Peter/Mark continued to declare the resurrection of Jesus. Peter was killed in Rome under Nero's persecution. But despite the execution of his brother and his friend Peter, even John continued to declare the resurrection in his gospel.

Why? Why did Paul convert? How could Jesus/Mark declare with such confidence that his words would never disappear? How do we explain the prophecies of Daniel?

Time's up Enjoy.

[bernee51]

Let's see what I can manage in 10 minutes for a laugh...

Have you dried out yet? Thinking arks?

Jesus was said to be the Messiah. Paul by his own account first persecuted that movement, then converted to become one of its major evangelists (Galations 1). We can't be sure why, but this gives us prima facie reason to not dismiss Jesus out of hand.

What cannot be dismissd out of hand is Paul's belief. Paul's belief says nothing about the existence or otherwise of the Jesus of the gospels.

Jesus is alleged to have said that 'til heaven and earth pass away, his words would not be lost (Mark 13 etc.). When Mark was written, Christianity was an insignificant Jewish/Gentile cult suffering sporadic persecution. But 2000 years later, Jesus' words remain..

The Vedas have been around for longer, they to self claim to be eternal, and divinely revealed.

Around the 6th century BCE, the Jewish visionary Daniel wrote that 7 and 62 'sevens' after a decree to rebuild Jerusalem, a 'messiah' would be 'cut off,' which would be followed by the destruction of the temple. The only recorded decree for the rebuilding of Jerusalem in the Tanakh is in Nehemiah 2 (c. 446 BCE) - 62 sevens later is around 18 BCE, when Herod began his majestic temple upgrades, and 7 sevens after that is around 32 CE... Those figures are wrong, but I don't have time to calculate properly. There is a less than 1% margin of error for the vision to be fulfilled by Jesus. And shortly afterwards, the Jewish temple was indeed destroyed (70CE).

I won't speak to this...but I know that Goat has views, opinions etc on the efficacy of Daniel

The gospel of John was written by a disciple of Jesus (stated in 1 John 1:1-3, John 1:14, 19:35, and confirmed in the appendix); so too, allegedly, was 1 Peter, and the gospel of Mark was believed to have been written by Peter's interpretor (a plausible conclusion). John's brother James was executed by Herod for his membership of the Christian sect (Acts 8 or so), and Peter was allegedly imprisoned.

Self claimed? Does disciple mean a direct disciple? or one who follows...as in I am a disciple of Ramana Maharshi...that does not mean I knew him personally.

Besides, self referencing biblical stories as evidence of their veracity would seem to be rather illogical.

But despite those risks of persecution, Peter/Mark continued to declare the resurrection of Jesus. Peter was killed in Rome under Nero's persecution. But despite the execution of his brother and his friend Peter, even John continued to declare the resurrection in his gospel.

I do not doubt that the writers of the gospels wrote what they believed and believed what they wrote...performative utterances is what i believe this phenomenon is called. Does this mean all they wrote is factual?