Did God Create Sin?

[ViperaRex]

Okay, Christians will usually say, "no, God did not create sin, it was Adam & Eve/ the Serpent, who created sin. They say; "God created the conditions through which sin might be born, but he himself did not create sin". This argument might make sense if God couldn't see the future, but according to the bible, he can, rendering this argument absolutely ridiculous, let me give you an analogy:

I Am a scientist,one day I become bored, I decide to create an experiment for my amusement, however, I know that conducting this particular experiment will release a toxic gas that will spread and kill everything within a 5 mile radius, This isn't the main point of the experiment, but it is a byproduct I know will occur. I strap on a gas mask, shrug, and do it anyway. Sure enough, the gas is released, and thousands of of people die. Surely I would be blamed for it, as I knew it would happen but did it anyway, would you defend me and say; "Hey, he didn't create the gas, he simply created the conditions in which that gas might be created, but he didn't make it". Of course you wouldn't, that makes no sense.

God didn't say, "Let there be sin", but he created it by creating the right conditions and allowing it to happen.

And thus, how can he be angry at us for sinning, when it is not really our fault that we sin, if he had not created the conditions for sin, it would not exist.

So, my question is, did God create sin?, if you believe "no", please justify it in light of all this

[antonenus]

Sin is falling short of Gods mark, which everyone on earth apparently has, whether they have actually sinned or not.

Everyone has sinned even if you haven't sinned?

Sorry, it should say everyone is counted guilty of sin, even if they haven't conducted a sinful act.

It's not clear that sin is something which can be applied to non-humans. The Bible, to my knowledge, never accuses demons of sin. Certainly there are non-humans in the Bible who disobey God, but the Bible never calls that sin. Sin in uniquely human.

1 John 3:8
King James Version (KJV)
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Sounds like the devil gets named as the source of all sin. Which makes sense as he is the opposer of God.

[aglassdarkly]

Sin is falling short of Gods mark, which everyone on earth apparently has, whether they have actually sinned or not.

Everyone has sinned even if you haven't sinned?

Sorry, it should say everyone is counted guilty of sin, even if they haven't conducted a sinful act.

Only if you believe in the doctrine of original sin. It's not required for Christians to believe that particular doctrine.

It's not clear that sin is something which can be applied to non-humans. The Bible, to my knowledge, never accuses demons of sin. Certainly there are non-humans in the Bible who disobey God, but the Bible never calls that sin. Sin in uniquely human.

1 John 3:8
King James Version (KJV)
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Sounds like the devil gets named as the source of all sin. Which makes sense as he is the opposer of God.

That's really interesting. I'm just thinking with my fingers, but if the devil's only "sins" are what he has persuaded us to do, then he isn't the agent of sin... but the source of temptation to sin.

[ciko]

If you only read quran you would get your answers , but you dont have time for that, and that is why people walk in darkness and cant find right answers and right path in life.

God did not create sin, sin is product of man and devil.

God created Devil as tool for the test of humankind.

Devil gives ideas to do sins, and wispers it in the mind of people.
So if we understand that this life is a test from God, then we understand why devil is created.

it is like profesor making test, with difficult and easy questions. and you ask , why would profesor make difficult question. is same as if you ask why would God created devil to make our life full of sin.

To create test, you need free will and two paths, correct and wrong path.
correct leads to paradise, wrong path leads to hell.
You choose.

[antonenus]

[Replying to post 12 by aglassdarkly]

I think that Satan's initial rebellion against God would be classed as sin, probably the very first sin, along with all the demons rebelling.

[McCulloch]

Sounds like the devil gets named as the source of all sin. Which makes sense as he is the opposer of God.

If you believe that there really is a Devil, who created the Devil? Who allows the Devil to continue to operate in the universe? If the Devil could spread so much evil and sin, why would a good God, a powerful God and a wise God, allow him free rein?

God created Devil as tool for the test of humankind.

When you do not know the abilities and capabilities of a student, you devise a test. A test is a tool that can be used to address your understandable ignorance about how well particular students have learned their lessons. However, if you already know that a student has or has not learned the lesson, a test is no longer needed. God, we are told, is omniscient; He knows everything. Why would God need to test the very humans He created? Why devise such a dangerous and evil test?

I think that Satan's initial rebellion against God would be classed as sin, probably the very first sin, along with all the demons rebelling.

When you read mythology literally, you end up with absurdities. Do you think that Satan is really that utterly foolish and stupid? No one with a lick of sense would oppose the will of an all-powerful creator of the universe. Open rebellion of Satan and the demons against God himself! Preposterous!

[southern cross]

God created everything
No wait god didn't create sin
God created satan
No wait satan created sin
God didn't create satan
No wait man created sin
God created everything except the bits he claims he didn't create
No wait god claims he created everything
God created the book that says god created everything
No wait god didn't create everything
God didn't create a book
Satan created adam and eve was the getaway driver
No wait a snake created satan and put him in charge of the garden
God created one or two things but they weren't his fault
No wait......................................................
A book created everything

[Rkrause]

Okay, Christians will usually say, "no, God did not create sin, it was Adam & Eve/ the Serpent, who created sin. They say; "God created the conditions through which sin might be born, but he himself did not create sin". This argument might make sense if God couldn't see the future, but according to the bible, he can, rendering this argument absolutely ridiculous, let me give you an analogy:

I Am a scientist,one day I become bored, I decide to create an experiment for my amusement, however, I know that conducting this particular experiment will release a toxic gas that will spread and kill everything within a 5 mile radius, This isn't the main point of the experiment, but it is a byproduct I know will occur. I strap on a gas mask, shrug, and do it anyway. Sure enough, the gas is released, and thousands of of people die. Surely I would be blamed for it, as I knew it would happen but did it anyway, would you defend me and say; "Hey, he didn't create the gas, he simply created the conditions in which that gas might be created, but he didn't make it". Of course you wouldn't, that makes no sense.

God didn't say, "Let there be sin", but he created it by creating the right conditions and allowing it to happen.

And thus, how can he be angry at us for sinning, when it is not really our fault that we sin, if he had not created the conditions for sin, it would not exist.

So, my question is, did God create sin?, if you believe "no", please justify it in light of all this

God didn't create sin. Sin is imperfection of Gods perfection so by Gods very nature sin wasn't created by Him.

Everyone gets confused on this issue because of perspective. In Gods perspective He knew we would sin and He knew the punishments that would come from our sinning. However, in our perspective we have free will and sinning is our choice. We shouldn't really mourn the consquences of our actions because we get caught.

Your analogy should be, I have no idea what I am going to eat 9/20/2015 for suppper yet God already knows. The decision will be mine even though God already knows. Gods foreknowledge doesn't matter in this case. God isn't guilty if my meal turns our imperfect nor can I complain about God creating the imperfection of what I made.

[southern cross]

[Replying to post 17 by Rkrause]

God didn't create sin. Sin is imperfection of Gods perfection so by Gods very nature sin wasn't created by Him.

So god didn't create humans because by their imperfect nature they could not have been created by a perfect god.
You win the cupie doll.

[ttruscott]

GOD doesn't do logical inconsistencies.

Pre-Conception Existence theology contends:

GOD wanted to create a Church, a congregation of people in full loving, holy communion with HIM in heaven BECAUSE THEY WANTED TO BE THERE WITH HIM IN THAT REALITY! They must have truly wanted love, holiness and heaven as HE defines it.

How did HE find all the people in HIS creation who would like to live that way, after HE taught them all about it and all about the alternatives? HE asked them to make a true free will decision to accept HIM as their GOD and to accept HIS purpose for their creation.

How did HE ensure they really wanted that and were not just pushed into it by being all GODlike and all? Looking the same as anyone else, HE offered no proof at all that HE was divine and that HE could take us to heaven or help us learn to be pure, holy and loving but asked us to accept this on faith, ie the hope that it was all true because we liked what we heard so well and wanted it so much, we didn't need proof to accept it. Faith = hope, hope in our eternal life in heaven with GOD in full loving, holy communion, ie fulfilling HIS reason for our creation.

By not proving HIMself overwhelmingly but hiding HIS glory, GOD allows us each to choose where to put our faith, by which we actually define our own reality, the world view we live in which also defines both God and our relationship with Him from our point of view. "This is what I believe" means "This is the way I hope it is, the reality of the universe." 2 Corinthians 5:7 We live by faith, not by sight (ie proof).

BUT once someone chose to accept HIM as their GOD and to accept HIS purpose for their creation, HE gave them the promise of ELECTION to heaven, backed by the gospel promise that if they should ever choose to become evil in HIS sight, HE would do what ever was necessary to bring them to redemption, back to HIM and back to their original true free will decision.

For those elect who did chose to become evil in HIS sight, HE gave PREDESTINATED lives, perfectly designed to fulfill their salvation and to bring them to holiness.

Since this all happened pre-earth's creation, and since earth is where these people live out their predestined lives, this is not the place where we try to find GOD but the place where we work out our already made decisions about HIM.

Of course this allowed some to reject HIM and so put themselves outside of HIS mercy, grace and love for eternity because their free will was destroyed by three things:
1. their enslavement to sin by choosing evil
2. When their choice to reject GOD as a false GOD was proven wrong (by HIS creation of the physical universe) it meant their "free " will was now coerced by the knowledge of HIS deity so they could never choose to accept HIM as GOD by free will, which was a necessity for salvation and
3. they could now never again choose HIM by faith because what is proven is no longer faith: Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Faith is hope.
Romans 8:24 For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he already has? This faith / hope saves if it is not based upon proof (ie what is seen).

As for the point about HIM knowing who would choose what, PCE also contends:
1. GOD knows everything which HE decreed to exist fully and completely by omniscience, and also knows every possibility of what is not yet created by omniscience.
2. When HE created us in HIS image with the ability to make true free will decisions, HE DID NOT DECREE the outcomes or results of those decisions, so HE knew what we might choose as possibilities only, not as realities.
3. When we made a true free will decision HE immediately knew it as reality, not just a possibility,

thus PCE does not believe that GOD knew who would end up in hell but created them anyway.

So, ViperaRex, how would you do creation for heaven different or better?

Peace, Ted

[Rkrause]

God created everything
No wait god didn't create sin
God created satan
No wait satan created sin
God didn't create satan
No wait man created sin
God created everything except the bits he claims he didn't create
No wait god claims he created everything
God created the book that says god created everything
No wait god didn't create everything
God didn't create a book
Satan created adam and eve was the getaway driver
No wait a snake created satan and put him in charge of the garden
God created one or two things but they weren't his fault
No wait......................................................
A book created everything

Created is the wrong word. Sin isn't created it is an imperfection of perfection. A flaw in the perfect creation.