Same sex marriage is not a church issue.

[Christianity in crisis?]

I believe same sex marriage is not a church issue when it comes to the law. Christians who try to ban same sex marriage are wrong, and should be consistent with the separation of church and state. BTW... I am an evangelical Christian against forms of legalized discrimination.

[McCulloch]

Same sex marriage as well as any other homosexual activity is a natural and spiritual aberration. As such it is the duty of those with a living faith to oppose it in any way they can.

This is your opinion. However, many people, even some Christians, disagree with your assessment. Those who agree with your religious view wish to impose on society in general, by force of law, the views which are solely evidenced by divine revelation.

Pressure has been brought to bear for the Christian community to accept deviant homosexual behavior whether they like it or not. It has been thrust down our throat; we are being forced to drink poison.

The pressure has not been legal. If your church refuses to marry interracial couples, couples with different religious backgrounds, couples with different hair color, previously divorced people or people who are the same sex, that continues to be their right. The laws in Canada, where same sex marriage has been legal for some time now, in no way infringe on any church what they may consider sinful or deviant on their own members.

- We are told it is hateful to oppose that which Our Lord has forbidden.

It is called free speech. We may disagree with what you find forbidden.

- We are told to accept into our congregations and into our leadership that which we are told in the Bible to reject, to oppose and to remove from fellowship.

By whom? Your church continues to be free to choose whatever restrictions on leadership and fellowship that you deem to be appropriate.

At no point has the law been sympathetic to Christian values and beliefs. We are oppressed at every opportunity.

If by oppression you mean that you are no longer allowed to dictate to the rest of us according to Christian values and beliefs, then yes, you are being oppressed.

Finally it would be a good idea to consider another group that is making its influence felt in the American legal system. These people are not as tolerant of sexual deviation as Christians. They are not tolerant of those who disbelieve in God. In fact they are intolerant of everything and anything that opposes their faith. They regard it as persecution and death, they say, is the answer to persecution.

I write of Islam and Sharia law. It's coming to America and it is not gentle and kind. Those who enjoy homosexual acts will be punished most severely and will soon find that the law is against them.

I think that there is a significant danger here. We must stand firm in our countries' secularism. Rules and laws inspired solely by religion (Christian, Muslim or otherwise) have no place in our legislatures.

When Christian influence (and law) withers as so many wish and hope it will, it will be replaced by oppressive murderous Islam. And Islam, contrary to the current state of political correctness is not merciful. Read Muslim words on the matter. If you get upset don't blame me. I'm just the messenger.

I believe that Christianity is not the only alternative to Islam. The founders of your great country proved that.

[Choir Loft]

I believe same sex marriage is not a church issue when it comes to the law. Christians who try to ban same sex marriage are wrong, and should be consistent with the separation of church and state. BTW... I am an evangelical Christian against forms of legalized discrimination.

Same sex marriage IS a church issue within the religion as it IS between the sheets of adults at night.

Our modern problem is that American society has become mean and debauched. Mean in the sense that everything has to be litigated and debauched in the sense that a common rule of moral behavior is no longer based upon what God has determined.

Our modern morality is based upon what the government says is right or wrong. In that we do err because the government never considers what is best for society as a whole - only that which is best for the oligarchs.

As an example, here are a few of the 'moral' principles of our Federal government;
It has been declared that it is -

-Right that two adults may be married, regardless of biological origins.

-Right that war should be waged on a global scale against those who oppose our financial interests (it has nothing whatsoever to do with 'freedom').

-Right that the same government that foments war and violence should campaign against private citizens and their right to defend themselves (no totalitarian state allows private ownership of arms).

-Right that choices in lifestyle down to what one drinks and the size of the container should be dictated.

-Right that one may be denied personal freedoms based upon religion or race.

The issue before the high court this day is marriage. Shall the government now determine whether two people may be married in the sight of society? Bear in mind that in the Federal governments view the only really important issues are taxes and liability. The married pair may now be taxed and their combined resources siphoned off just like everyone else. That is the only real issue of interest to the Federal government. The rest is simple argument.

A secondary issue is whether or not Christians have a right to vote and express their conscience in public forums. According to the opinion of the day they do not.

Herein lies the tyranny of the zeitgeist, the spirit of the age, political correctness as they say. For when one man is not allowed the freedom to express his opinion, vote his conscience and live as he chooses, EVERYONE ELSE losses their right to do so as well.

Americans today have lost their love of liberty. It is so far gone that the principle isn't even recognized or discussed or admitted. Having lost the spirit of Liberty, the nation is now spiraling down into the dark abyss of totalitarian fascism. And this generation embraces the situation wholeheartedly.

Americans love the proud new fascist state we've created.

"The TSA is now more popular than congress."
- Brian Williams
NBC Nightly News

Know this, that God is still in heaven, still sits on His holy throne and does NOT approve of those things which our population now embraces.

IF GOD DOES NOT JUDGE AMERICA, HE WILL HAVE TO APOLOGIZE TO SODOM AND GOMORRAH.

and that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

[99percentatheism]

Christianity in crisis?:

I believe same sex marriage is not a church issue when it comes to the law.

Not when it comes to democracy. Christians get to vote just like everyone else. But you're right. homosexual marriage, like homosexual behavior, is an anti Christian endeavor.

Christians who try to ban same sex marriage are wrong,

Then you have just removed the writers of the New Testament letters, including Paul, as being non Christians?

. . . and should be consistent with the separation of church and state.

I'm betting that you've been asked for evidence of that seperation of church and state from the New Testament? Other than paying taxes where is it? 1 and 2 Peter maybe? You'll have an impossible time findong support for gay anything in Peter's letters. Gay pride is antithetical to Christian life when the New Testament is the guide. But, forcing Christians to be attacked and harrassed by gay activists is also a hate crime.

BTW... I am an evangelical Christian against forms of legalized discrimination.

Of course you are.

What does "evangel" mean? Do you know?

[99percentatheism]

[Replying to post 132 by richardP]

IF GOD DOES NOT JUDGE AMERICA, HE WILL HAVE TO APOLOGIZE TO SODOM AND GOMORRAH.

This is a right and true statement.

Didn't Jesus say some good things about the Sodomites? THEY will see a judgment come on this nation. It's amazing seeing this go down the way it is.

[99percentatheism]

[Replying to post 121 by Goat]

How judgmental.

[McCulloch]

Same sex marriage IS a church issue within the religion as it IS between the sheets of adults at night.

I agree, so long as it remains an issue within the religion. Your religion may prohibit certain foods, certain modes of dress, certain sexual activities and a whole whack of other stuff, but it may only do this for the members of that religion. Those of us who do not prescribe to your particular religion, should be completely free of the restrictions on our activities based on your religion. It is called freedom of religion.

a common rule of moral behavior is no longer based upon what God has determined.

It never was based on what God had determined. God is not invoked in your laws or your constitution.

Our modern morality is based upon what the government says is right or wrong.

You confuse morality with legality. Legality is based on what the elected representatives of the people collectively decide. Morality is a far more difficult thing to determine.

As an example, here are a few of the 'moral' principles of our Federal government;
It has been declared that it is -

-Right that two adults may be married, regardless of biological origins.

Are you opposed to inter-racial marriage?

-Right that one may be denied personal freedoms based upon religion or race.

An example of this one might be helpful.

A secondary issue is whether or not Christians have a right to vote and express their conscience in public forums. According to the opinion of the day they do not.

Where is this coming from? Of course Christians, Hindus, Muslims, Atheists, Sikhs, Buddhists, Wiccans have the right to vote. And they have the right to express their opinions and conscience in public forums. What they do not have the right to do is to impose the religiously defined morality of their respective religions as a matter of law applied to the rest of us. Nor do they have the right to use public money and resources to promote and propagate their religions.

Know this, that God is still in heaven, still sits on His holy throne and does NOT approve of those things which our population now embraces.

IF GOD DOES NOT JUDGE AMERICA, HE WILL HAVE TO APOLOGIZE TO SODOM AND GOMORRAH.

God should have apologized to Sodom and Gomorrah a long time ago. He destroyed the two cities for immorality yet spared the guy who would have given his own daughters to the murderous crowd! Canada is far more accepting of same sex marriage than the USA and we are not facing any kind of imminent judgement from God. When God separates the sheep from the goats, do you really think that the sheep are the ones who show the least tolerance to homosexuality? If so, I believe that you have a mighty skewed and biased view of even your own religion.

[McCulloch]

Personally, I think if you think a gay man is threatening your marriage, you should stop sleeping with him.

This humorous quip makes an important point. The acceptance of same sex marriage does in no way threaten heterosexual marriage. The fact that my country accepts that my neighbors Lily and Betty are married does not make me love my wife any less. The legal recognition of same sex marriage has not changed the numbers of men and women getting married, either in the churches or with civil ceremonies. I do not love my children any less because Brian and Bruce are allowed to adopt. Where is the threat!

[99percentatheism]

[Replying to post 137 by McCulloch]

This humorous quip makes an important point. The acceptance of same sex marriage does in no way threaten heterosexual marriage. The fact that my country accepts that my neighbors Lily and Betty are married does not make me love my wife any less. The legal recognition of same sex marriage has not changed the numbers of men and women getting married, either in the churches or with civil ceremonies. I do not love my children any less because Brian and Bruce are allowed to adopt. Where is the threat!

How many children are now apt to engage in homosexuality now that homosexual sex is so cheered on by the powerful secularists? It's now on the menu as a choice to be indulged in. And NO ONE can oppose that.

Same gender marriage validates and encourages homosexuality. Plain and simple.

As a spiritual matter, of course it does.

This is about "powers and principlaities" ruling the populace and not just some adults cruising for yet one more sex partner.

It is utterly fascinating to watch the re-sodomization of the cities spreading worldwide. Very "revelation" actually.

Abraham's math may be more in effect, keeping some depraved societies around, than this debauchery known as "tolerance and diversity" spreading immorality like a plague.

[connermt]

[Replying to post 137 by McCulloch]

This humorous quip makes an important point. The acceptance of same sex marriage does in no way threaten heterosexual marriage. The fact that my country accepts that my neighbors Lily and Betty are married does not make me love my wife any less. The legal recognition of same sex marriage has not changed the numbers of men and women getting married, either in the churches or with civil ceremonies. I do not love my children any less because Brian and Bruce are allowed to adopt. Where is the threat!

How many children are now apt to engage in homosexuality now that homosexual sex is so cheered on by the powerful secularists? It's now on the menu as a choice to be indulged in. And NO ONE can oppose that.

Same gender marriage validates and encourages homosexuality. Plain and simple.

As a spiritual matter, of course it does.

This is about "powers and principlaities" ruling the populace and not just some adults cruising for yet one more sex partner.

It is utterly fascinating to watch the re-sodomization of the cities spreading worldwide. Very "revelation" actually.

Abraham's math may be more in effect, keeping some depraved societies around, than this debauchery known as "tolerance and diversity" spreading immorality like a plague.

Yes, please tell us how many children are encourage to engage in homosexuality? Obviously you know, so please tell us all, as I don't know of any. Fact is, I don't know any gay kids or kids that are told "go gay!". Your claim smacks of paranoia IMO.
You know nothing of human sexuality if you think gay marriage encourages people to be gay. People will be gay even if gay marriage isn't accepted. History tells us this. How? There have been gay people for years (shock I know).
Other than "grossing you out", what direct effect does gay people getting married have on you personally that straight marriage doesn't?
Not a thing, that's what.

[labhras]

I believe same sex marriage is not a church issue when it comes to the law. Christians who try to ban same sex marriage are wrong, and should be consistent with the separation of church and state. BTW... I am an evangelical Christian against forms of legalized discrimination.

You may believe same sex marriage is not a Church issue but it is. Politicians have not enshrined any proper protection for religious groups who decline to perform Same-Sex Marriage ceremonies on their premises. This is creating a huge gray area where there is a lot of uncertainty. Just as in a Synagogue, men & women sit apart; as in Islam those entering the Mosque must remove their footwear also Christian Churches should be able to decline performing a ceremony that contradicts a fundamental teaching. Christians are not trying to ban same-sex marriage as it does not exist. What we are objecting to is the rewording of the definition of the word "Marriage" to allow equality. You can redefine all you want but how can a heterosexual marriage be equal to a homosexual marriage? It's illogical never mind the moral/religious implications.Man & woman does not equal man & man or woman & woman.

You challenge Christians to "be consistent with the separation of church and state.", as marriage is the purview of Religion, should not the state not be meddling in areas not of their remit? Marriage is not for state. Civil partnerships are.

One final thought, why is everyone so scared of discrimination ? According to the Oxford dictionary, the word discriminate derives from " early 17th century: from Latin discriminat- 'distinguished between', from the verb discriminare, from discrimen 'distinction', from the verb discernere (see discern)". We exercise discrimination all the time in our lives. It does have to be nor should it always be a negative value. Belief structures, whether pagan, atheistic, religious or whatever are all discriminatory by default. The followers of such belief structures are discerning between the choices available. To be Pagan or Christian, Mormon, Hindu, etc, etc; is to be distinct from the rest. Marriage is distinct from civil partnership because civil partnership is not bound by religious obligation but by state obligation and those joined in civil partnerships enjoy the exact same privilege as those married. If not then the state law affecting those should be addressed and not the redefining of a word. Whereby many call for the Church to be separate from state, the same are silent when the state interferes on church issues.

http://oxforddictionaries.com/definitio ... scriminate