The Problem with Christian and Muslim Fundamentalists

[jessehove]

Here is the similar problem with Christian and Muslim Fundamentalists as I see it:

http://mercyandmessiah.blogspot.ca/2013 ... lists.html

P.S. Notice I am using a specific definition of what Fundamentalism from a historical modern definition in Christianity and Islam respectively.

[Iam]

[Replying to post 88 by HaLi8993]

The only difference is Kayky, is that the falseness of Christianity in terms of it's texts being changed and manipulated are evident whereas this is not the case with Islam.

I guess you'd better produce the original then, or this claim is just absurd muslim propaganda.
I look forward to seeing the original that Islam possesses in order that they can propagate this lie.

[Goat]

Kayky

And many Christians believe that Christianity is the "only religion of truth" and that God leads people to Christianity. Your claim is no more valid than theirs. Both sides are suffering from the same delusion.

The only difference is Kayky, is that the falseness of Christianity in terms of it's texts being changed and manipulated are evident whereas this is not the case with Islam.

I am an Episcopalian. We practice progressive Christianity. Most Episcopalians do not believe in hell.

That's the problem, Progressive Christians believe it is correct to reform God's given scripture. Toning down on personal sin. Maybe the reason they do not believe in Hell.

Of course, what you can't show is that, well, your claims that the Quran are 'God's given scripture' can not be shown to be true. Yes, you can play those word games and claim 'the quran predicted such and such'.. and claim , in a ciruclar manner, no one but God could have written it.. the Christians do the same thing with the Bible, but those are just confirmation bias and word games. You take vague references and retrofit meaning. The inflexibilty of the fundamentalist let's them justify a certain measure of injustice and cruelty, and then claim 'oh, but it's better'. The problem is that they can't even see it, and see on just how destructive their worldview is.

[HaLi8993]

Iam

I guess you'd better produce the original then, or this claim is just absurd muslim propaganda.
I look forward to seeing the original that Islam possesses in order that they can propagate this lie

All you would need to do Iam is pick up a copy of the Quran and you would have a copy of the original right there in front of you for your convenience better yet you could just search the net.

The fact the the Quran hasn't been changed in the last 50, 100, 200 even 500 years in proof that God is preserving it from any form of corruption. Another point to mention is that there has been generations coming one after another, reciting the Book of Allah and studying it, memorizing it and writing it down. They have not omitted a single letter, and no one can change even the vowel point of a single letter. Writing is just one means of preserving it, basically it is preserved in their hearts. If you read any verse of the Quran, then you go to the jungles of Africa, or to the deserts of Arabia or any place where there are Muslims, you will find that all of them have the exact same verse, memorized by heart or in their books, not a single letter of it will have been altered.

Again it is not up to us to prove what we say is truth as we regard the Quran and Sunnah to be the truth it is up to those that make claims that the Quran has been changed to forward their proof.

[HaLi8993]

Goat

Of course, what you can't show is that, well, your claims that the Quran are 'God's given scripture' can not be shown to be true. Yes, you can play those word games and claim 'the quran predicted such and such'.. and claim , in a ciruclar manner, no one but God could have written it.. the Christians do the same thing with the Bible, but those are just confirmation bias and word games. You take vague references and retrofit meaning. The inflexibilty of the fundamentalist let's them justify a certain measure of injustice and cruelty, and then claim 'oh, but it's better'. The problem is that they can't even see it, and see on just how destructive their worldview is.

I have already shown you how this is true, if one choses not to accept the truth, reject and deny this, it doesn't make him correct, he would need to disprove the source from its source as any false religion would have contradictions and errors in it. We as Muslims believe that the original Gospel including the Torah were from God, however the current bibles have been changed, but how can any sound Christian claim that what they believe and practice today is what God commanded when there are so many contradictions found in their very own scriptures?? Any person that comprehensively analyses this will come to this conclusion. If you were following Goat you would have realized that it is others that take a verse of the Quran then claim that Muslims are giving it an entire different meaning, the Quran is very clear so are it's verses. It is not a book of science even though it is comparable with science. I don't understand this form of mentality when people that criticize the Quran can't even explain their own ideologies and when Muslims adhere to the truth they cannot let them live in peace. The problem lies with those that try and change the religion of God and try and reform the world to their own imperfect beliefs that do not represent any form of truth especially when it is not from God, the Creator of all.

[Allahakbar]

Iam

I guess you'd better produce the original then, or this claim is just absurd muslim propaganda.
I look forward to seeing the original that Islam possesses in order that they can propagate this lie

All you would need to do Iam is pick up a copy of the Quran and you would have a copy of the original right there in front of you for your convenience better yet you could just search the net.

The fact the the Quran hasn't been changed in the last 50, 100, 200 even 500 years in proof that God is preserving it from any form of corruption. Another point to mention is that there has been generations coming one after another, reciting the Book of Allah and studying it, memorizing it and writing it down. They have not omitted a single letter, and no one can change even the vowel point of a single letter. Writing is just one means of preserving it, basically it is preserved in their hearts. If you read any verse of the Quran, then you go to the jungles of Africa, or to the deserts of Arabia or any place where there are Muslims, you will find that all of them have the exact same verse, memorized by heart or in their books, not a single letter of it will have been altered.

Again it is not up to us to prove what we say is truth as we regard the Quran and Sunnah to be the truth it is up to those that make claims that the Quran has been changed to forward their proof.

And what of the seven dialects that were revealed? And why did muhammad teach different prayers to different people and claim they were the same? Did allah ever reveal anything directly to muhammad, ie not through gabriel?

[Allahakbar]

Goat

Of course, what you can't show is that, well, your claims that the Quran are 'God's given scripture' can not be shown to be true. Yes, you can play those word games and claim 'the quran predicted such and such'.. and claim , in a ciruclar manner, no one but God could have written it.. the Christians do the same thing with the Bible, but those are just confirmation bias and word games. You take vague references and retrofit meaning. The inflexibilty of the fundamentalist let's them justify a certain measure of injustice and cruelty, and then claim 'oh, but it's better'. The problem is that they can't even see it, and see on just how destructive their worldview is.

I have already shown you how this is true, if one choses not to accept the truth, reject and deny this, it doesn't make him correct, he would need to disprove the source from its source as any false religion would have contradictions and errors in it. We as Muslims believe that the original Gospel including the Torah were from God, however the current bibles have been changed, but how can any sound Christian claim that what they believe and practice today is what God commanded when there are so many contradictions found in their very own scriptures?? Any person that comprehensively analyses this will come to this conclusion. If you were following Goat you would have realized that it is others that take a verse of the Quran then claim that Muslims are giving it an entire different meaning, the Quran is very clear so are it's verses. It is not a book of science even though it is comparable with science. I don't understand this form of mentality when people that criticize the Quran can't even explain their own ideologies and when Muslims adhere to the truth they cannot let them live in peace. The problem lies with those that try and change the religion of God and try and reform the world to their own imperfect beliefs that do not represent any form of truth especially when it is not from God, the Creator of all.

Christians ignore and wave off the contradictions in the bible just the same as Muslims ignore and wave off the contradictions in the Quran.

[Goat]

Goat

Of course, what you can't show is that, well, your claims that the Quran are 'God's given scripture' can not be shown to be true. Yes, you can play those word games and claim 'the quran predicted such and such'.. and claim , in a ciruclar manner, no one but God could have written it.. the Christians do the same thing with the Bible, but those are just confirmation bias and word games. You take vague references and retrofit meaning. The inflexibilty of the fundamentalist let's them justify a certain measure of injustice and cruelty, and then claim 'oh, but it's better'. The problem is that they can't even see it, and see on just how destructive their worldview is.

I have already shown you how this is true, if one choses not to accept the truth, reject and deny this, it doesn't make him correct, he would need to disprove the source from its source as any false religion would have contradictions and errors in it. We as Muslims believe that the original Gospel including the Torah were from God, however the current bibles have been changed, but how can any sound Christian claim that what they believe and practice today is what God commanded when there are so many contradictions found in their very own scriptures?? Any person that comprehensively analyses this will come to this conclusion. If you were following Goat you would have realized that it is others that take a verse of the Quran then claim that Muslims are giving it an entire different meaning, the Quran is very clear so are it's verses. It is not a book of science even though it is comparable with science. I don't understand this form of mentality when people that criticize the Quran can't even explain their own ideologies and when Muslims adhere to the truth they cannot let them live in peace. The problem lies with those that try and change the religion of God and try and reform the world to their own imperfect beliefs that do not represent any form of truth especially when it is not from God, the Creator of all.

You don't see to see that there is a difference between a claim, and evidence. I noticed that you, like fundamentalist Christans, ignore, deny and hand wave the contradictions that are presented. I also noticed you use the same techniques of using vague references, and changes in translation to 'show' that the quran is scietnifically accurate that the Christians do with the bible... even though it has been pointed out to you the problems with those claims.

To me, those attitudes show the falseness of the position of rebellious fundamentalism.

[Burninglight]

Goat

Of course, what you can't show is that, well, your claims that the Quran are 'God's given scripture' can not be shown to be true. Yes, you can play those word games and claim 'the quran predicted such and such'.. and claim , in a ciruclar manner, no one but God could have written it.. the Christians do the same thing with the Bible, but those are just confirmation bias and word games. You take vague references and retrofit meaning. The inflexibilty of the fundamentalist let's them justify a certain measure of injustice and cruelty, and then claim 'oh, but it's better'. The problem is that they can't even see it, and see on just how destructive their worldview is.

I have already shown you how this is true, if one choses not to accept the truth, reject and deny this, it doesn't make him correct, he would need to disprove the source from its source as any false religion would have contradictions and errors in it. We as Muslims believe that the original Gospel including the Torah were from God, however the current bibles have been changed, but how can any sound Christian claim that what they believe and practice today is what God commanded when there are so many contradictions found in their very own scriptures?? Any person that comprehensively analyses this will come to this conclusion. If you were following Goat you would have realized that it is others that take a verse of the Quran then claim that Muslims are giving it an entire different meaning, the Quran is very clear so are it's verses. It is not a book of science even though it is comparable with science. I don't understand this form of mentality when people that criticize the Quran can't even explain their own ideologies and when Muslims adhere to the truth they cannot let them live in peace. The problem lies with those that try and change the religion of God and try and reform the world to their own imperfect beliefs that do not represent any form of truth especially when it is not from God, the Creator of all.

Christians ignore and wave off the contradictions in the bible just the same as Muslims ignore and wave off the contradictions in the Quran.

The Bible was written by men inspired by God, but the Quran was written as dictated by God; so, there is a big difference. the Quran cannot have any doubt in it, but the Bible has some 400,000 variances in it, but most of them are spelling errors, translation and nonsense errors. There are also a few minor interpolations that don't hurt the central gospel message. There are no significant variances in the Bible; they are all negligible. That is not the case with the Quran. In one place it says Allah saved Jesus from death then it says he killed him. There is also a serious abrogation (Satanic verse) in the Quran by non prophet Uthman who acted as Allah's editor.

If the Bible had any error regarding the death and resurrection of Christ or a contradiction there, that would end Christianity as we know it. Every Bible agrees on the central gospel message. The good news is a very simple message. That is we have all sinned and come short of god's glory, the wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. he died and rose from the dead. We choose whether to accept this message or not. Ro. 10,9, 10; Ro. 6:23; Ro. 3:23

[Ooberman]

Kayky

So God came to you personally and introduced Islam to you? No other human being at all was involved? Why do I find this hard to believe?

Nope not at all, I introduced myself to Islam with the guidance and will of God. I started off by reading the Quran.

Which was written by a human being....


How does your mind reconcile your claim that no human being was involved in introducing you to your god, when the Koran was written, is published, distributed, sold and read by human beings?

[Allahakbar]

Goat

Of course, what you can't show is that, well, your claims that the Quran are 'God's given scripture' can not be shown to be true. Yes, you can play those word games and claim 'the quran predicted such and such'.. and claim , in a ciruclar manner, no one but God could have written it.. the Christians do the same thing with the Bible, but those are just confirmation bias and word games. You take vague references and retrofit meaning. The inflexibilty of the fundamentalist let's them justify a certain measure of injustice and cruelty, and then claim 'oh, but it's better'. The problem is that they can't even see it, and see on just how destructive their worldview is.

I have already shown you how this is true, if one choses not to accept the truth, reject and deny this, it doesn't make him correct, he would need to disprove the source from its source as any false religion would have contradictions and errors in it. We as Muslims believe that the original Gospel including the Torah were from God, however the current bibles have been changed, but how can any sound Christian claim that what they believe and practice today is what God commanded when there are so many contradictions found in their very own scriptures?? Any person that comprehensively analyses this will come to this conclusion. If you were following Goat you would have realized that it is others that take a verse of the Quran then claim that Muslims are giving it an entire different meaning, the Quran is very clear so are it's verses. It is not a book of science even though it is comparable with science. I don't understand this form of mentality when people that criticize the Quran can't even explain their own ideologies and when Muslims adhere to the truth they cannot let them live in peace. The problem lies with those that try and change the religion of God and try and reform the world to their own imperfect beliefs that do not represent any form of truth especially when it is not from God, the Creator of all.

Christians ignore and wave off the contradictions in the bible just the same as Muslims ignore and wave off the contradictions in the Quran.

The Bible was written by men inspired by God, but the Quran was written as dictated by God; so, there is a big difference. the Quran cannot have any doubt in it, but the Bible has some 400,000 variances in it, but most of them are spelling errors, translation and nonsense errors. There are also a few minor interpolations that don't hurt the central gospel message. There are no significant variances in the Bible; they are all negligible. That is not the case with the Quran. In one place it says Allah saved Jesus from death then it says he killed him. There is also a serious abrogation (Satanic verse) in the Quran by non prophet Uthman who acted as Allah's editor.

If the Bible had any error regarding the death and resurrection of Christ or a contradiction there, that would end Christianity as we know it. Every Bible agrees on the central gospel message. The good news is a very simple message. That is we have all sinned and come short of god's glory, the wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. he died and rose from the dead. We choose whether to accept this message or not. Ro. 10,9, 10; Ro. 6:23; Ro. 3:23

What a generous little god you have. His creation does his bidding so he punishes ALL the sons and daughters of that creation, then he instigates the real plan and kills his son so that SOME of those sons and daughters can be saved from his unjust eternal punishment, all the while claiming that the sins of the fathers will not be visited on the son.
I am absolutely convinced that YOU will not recognize any contradiction in that though.