The Bible Says So....

[Sntrose]

This is directed to my Christian friends here, coming from an atheist. I have been reading through some of the posts here, and I keep running across the same thing. It's got me very confused. Why is it that when asked a moral question, the answer is "because it is in the Bible." ? The line of logic seems to stop there.

Usually, it is accompanied by a quote from Scripture, and then something along the lines of, "it's clearly in the Bible. So that's why it's a sin. The Bible says so."

What it is about this book that I'm not getting? What kind of book is there that could possibly be so infallible that you would never question it's contents? Nothing can be wrong? Not even a translation error? As long as it's in the Bible, you can relax...it must be right! It's in the Bible. So we don't have to think any more?

I sincerely do not intend this to be insulting. I mean it as a question. Read this in a happy voice...not a sarcastic one. That is the tone I intend...and would prefer the answers to be in....

[Sntrose]

[Replying to post 9 by bluethread]

I sincerely hope that you are correct and that more people are willing to question further. However, you do not answer my full question. While it is good that one may question the translation (although not all do), it still doesn't explain why the Bible is considered infallible. Meaning that even if you have studied and are sure you have the correct translation, why do you consider it truth?

Also, having studied quite a bit of background on the Bible myself on my transition from Christianity to atheism, I find it difficult to believe that the vast majority of the Bible can be assured as translated correctly. (More details on that can be addressed if you would like)

Thank you for your politeness in your last response.

[4gold]

[Replying to Sntrose]

Classical Christianity, of which I am an adherent, teaches that morality can be learned in three different ways:

(1) Natural Law -- nature teaches us things about morality that are objective and obvious to everyone, regardless of religion.

(2) General revelation -- Our intellect reveals shared morality to everyone, regardless of religion

(3) Divine revelation -- God teaches moral lessons to specific people at specific times

In other words, morality can be learned and shared by all peoples of all religious beliefs, but that is only part of morality. Another part of morality -- the part you are asking about -- exists only if God exists. For example, the moral obligation to love God does not exist if God does not exist.

I believe that when we study morality, we are studying what is good for human beings, given their nature, not capricious divine/biblical commands. I believe that the morality of atheists is shared by all, but is too narrow. Too incomplete. It can examine morality to a large extent without God, but ultimately must fall short of a complete picture.

That's why my first response to you was that I believe God and the resurrection exists. Once that is accepted, the nature of humans through which we view morality changes dramatically.

[Sntrose]

[Replying to post 12 by 4gold]

So you are saying that if I really believe in God that those morals will be revealed to me?

Remember that I was once a Christian. I never felt that assurance. Why was I left out? What did I do wrong?

What makes you so sure that you have the revelations you need to correctly understand the areas of the Bible that are not clear to an atheist? If God reveals specific truths to certain people at specific times, how do you know whether or not you're missing something?

Do you not think it's a possibility that you may interpret the Bible the way you do based on factors that have nothing to do with God?

[woodpen]

[Replying to post 12 by 4gold]

"Classical Christianity" Do you mean Catholicism?

[bluethread]

[Replying to post 9 by bluethread]

I sincerely hope that you are correct and that more people are willing to question further. However, you do not answer my full question. While it is good that one may question the translation (although not all do), it still doesn't explain why the Bible is considered infallible. Meaning that even if you have studied and are sure you have the correct translation, why do you consider it truth?

Also, having studied quite a bit of background on the Bible myself on my transition from Christianity to atheism, I find it difficult to believe that the vast majority of the Bible can be assured as translated correctly. (More details on that can be addressed if you would like)

Thank you for your politeness in your last response.

HaTorah is not just the written Torah. I am sure that goat will correct me, if I am mistaken. However, Torah refers to the truth of which the written Scriptures are just a representation. Though there may be some translation problems, the reason I give credence to the Scriptures is that I believe that they are the closest thing we have to the actual Torah.

[4gold]

[Replying to post 12 by 4gold]

So you are saying that if I really believe in God that those morals will be revealed to me?

Remember that I was once a Christian. I never felt that assurance. Why was I left out? What did I do wrong?

What makes you so sure that you have the revelations you need to correctly understand the areas of the Bible that are not clear to an atheist? If God reveals specific truths to certain people at specific times, how do you know whether or not you're missing something?

Do you not think it's a possibility that you may interpret the Bible the way you do based on factors that have nothing to do with God?

I have never received divine revelation from God. I don't know anyone who has. And so far, everyone who has told me they have received it, well, I think they're lying. It does not surprise me that you never received one either, because, well, you definitely would not be an atheist, would you!!

The point here is that if you believe the God of the Bible exists, then you believe there are divine revelations in the Bible that can reveal moral truths beyond what nature or the intellect reveals to us.

You ask what areas would be clear to me, but not to an atheist. One example is the moral obligation to love God. What makes me so sure? I believe in God, and the atheist does not. It's not a special revelation I received from God. It's because God exists that such morality exists.

[4gold]

[Replying to post 14 by woodpen]

I'm a Calvinist, not Catholic. But I am a classical Christian in the sense that I share more similar beliefs to Augustine, Aquinas, and Calvin.

[woodpen]

[Replying to post 14 by woodpen]

I'm a Calvinist, not Catholic. But I am a classical Christian in the sense that I share more similar beliefs to Augustine, Aquinas, and Calvin.

Calvin was a heretic. Read history.

[Artie]

I can only answer for myself, but once I decided based on reason that God exists and that the resurrection story was more true than false, then the parts of the Bible that I disagreed with or questioned were accepted based on faith.

Then you are mixing reason and faith. Rationalism and faith are opposites. You can't derive one from the other. Rationalism is belief in reason and evidence, faith is belief in revelation or inspiration or authority. You can have faith in the existence of God but you can't reason yourself into believing He exists because then you would be a rationalist and there is no evidence for His existence.

[4gold]

I can only answer for myself, but once I decided based on reason that God exists and that the resurrection story was more true than false, then the parts of the Bible that I disagreed with or questioned were accepted based on faith.

Then you are mixing reason and faith. Rationalism and faith are opposites. You can't derive one from the other. Rationalism is belief in reason and evidence, faith is belief in revelation or inspiration or authority. You can have faith in the existence of God but you can't reason yourself into believing He exists because then you would be a rationalist and there is no evidence for His existence.

No, that's not true. Faith is derived from reason. I believe God exists through reason. Once I accept that God exists, there are other things that are accepted based on faith.