Would an Omnipotent being have a Need/Want to do ANYTHING?

[Divine Insight]

Dear Master Spade,

You are in error concerning your assumptions about me not being as perfect as God.

If you read the Holy Bible, you will see that the demigod Jesus, the Son of the Almighty God, teaches that we can indeed be as perfect as God.

Allow me to share with you an excerpt form this Holy Book. These words, although written by some yo-yo named Matthew, are supposedly a verbatim trustworthy quote from the demigod Jesus himself who was the Son of God.

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Now I realize that a belief in this Holy Book requires faith, but if you allow for faith then consider the following:

Jesus, the perfect Son of the perfect almighty Father God is telling us, according to the yo-yo named Matthew, that we can indeed be as perfect of God if we simply chose to be.

Surely Jesus, being a perfect demigod himself would not be pulling our leg with fibs.

Therefore all we need to do is simply choose to be perfect like our Father which is in heaven and it shall be so.

I am told by all clergy and priests that the words in this Holy Book should be believed as a matter of pure faith.

Therefore I believe that the yo-yo Matthew has correctly quoted the perfect demigod Jesus and that it is then possible for me to be perfect like my Father which is in heaven.

Thus I accept the words of the demigod Jesus, and I choose to be perfect like God.

Therefore I am perfect like God.

I realize that you may find this difficult to understand or believe. But that's a totally irrelevant and moot point.

My faith has made me perfect. And faith is what the demigod Jesus and the Yahweh Father God are all about according to the priests, clergy and the hypocritical scribes (as Jesus points out).

Therefore I am perfect. By faith.

This may not have anything to do with reality, but that's a trivial aside. The religion is a faith-based religion, not a reality-based religion.

Therefore I am perfect like my Father in heaven is perfect.

Disclaimer: Some restrictions may apply. Misogyny and homophobia may be imperfections that our perfect creator had picked from having created us. Also perfection may not be the same concept in heaven as it is on earth. In fact, nothing to do with this God may have anything at all to do with any concepts as they are understood by us on earth. Also, if the apologetic excuses I've just given are not satisfactory fear not, I can come up with further unsatisfactory apologies very easily. For, like my Father in heaven, I am perfect in my ability to create an infinity of apologetic nonsense.

[Divine Insight]

So the question that has to be asked:

Is the Bible the word of god?


It either IS, or it ISN'T. It can't be "well this is, but this isn't". You can't pick the parts you like, and ignore and dismiss the parts you don't like. Remember, it's supposed to be the Word Of God!

Well, in a sense all actions are actions of God. Therefore all words are the word of God. So in this sense the Bible is the word of God. Just like Harry Potter is the word of God.

And yes we are free to chose the parts we like and reject the parts we don't.

You show this to be true in your next comments:

Part of the proof that the Bible contradicts itself, is the fact that there are THOUSANDS of different denominations coming from just the Bible. You ask a mormon a question about a story, and they will KNOW their version is the correct one. But you ask that same question to a a Lutheran, Baptist, Protestant, and countless others, and they will say that THEIR version is the only true one.

I agree. Religions based on the Bible are faith-based religions. And what people are actually placing their faith in is that their contradictions are the correct contradictions.

This is why I am free to be as perfect as God through my faith in selective excerpts from the Jesus myths, just as any other Christians are free to make whatever outrageous claims they make in Jesus' name.

Bottom line, the bible is the most potent force for Atheism. Most of the religious people never even read the book!

I can't argue with you on that. If I were told that I have to believe the bible verbatim I'd flush it down the toilet.

But that's not the point to Christianity. The point to Christianity is that you are free to create your own version of the demigod Jesus and toss away whatever parts you don't like.

Just as you have pointed out above. There are a myriad of different versions of the demigod Jesus. My version allows me to be perfect.

Bottom line, remember that the bible was MAN MADE. It was a collection of books, written by MAN. Then one day, MAN decided to collect all the books into one. MAN also decided which of all those books made it in, and which did NOT make it into the bible. So the beliefs of religious people today are based on decisions made by other HUMANS.

I don't argue with you there at all. This is why being a MAN myself I have no problem tossing out the garbage I don't care for and just focusing on the parts I like.

I like being perfect so don't be bursting my bubble.

Thank you for your understanding in this matter.

[JoeyKnothead]

From the OP:

IF there were this "Perfect" being, it would Want NOTHING. It would Need NOTHING. Why? Because it would Lack NOTHING! It would just.....Be. It would Just...Exist.

Such a condition fails to address the idea that here I sit being all perfect and all, but them over there ain't, and I'm upset about it.

If you think about it that way, why, and I ask WHY would that Omnipotent being have made us in the first place................if he was already Perfect in every way!?? A Want? A Need? An Omnipotent being making us goes against him being Perfect in the first place!

'Cause maybe ain't no "omni" made us, but only a good bunch of us think we're so special it could only have it ever been an "omni" that made us.

A being that Powerful and Perfect would most certainly NOT be interested in us Mere Humans, that is for Sure!! Just imagine the disparity between us and a being like that! It would be like us worrying about some Cells worshiping us, but multiply the disparity of us and those cells by infinity to cover the distance between us that Perfect being! Do you spend your life caring, rewarding, and ready to CONDEMN something so beneath you?? Do you get filled with as much Rage as that Omnipotent being.......over something SO BENEATH you!??

I'm interested in the human species beyond my being one of 'em, but the many goofy things they do, say, and think.

Think about this in an Honest, Serious way. If you do, you will see that IF there is some "God", it most certainly is NOT All Powerful, Perfect, and Omnipotent.

I object to the implication that if one comes to conclusions you ain't so proud of, they ain't honest, or serious, for having done it.

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"

-Epicurus

Agreed, but only so much as we, in our "feeble human minds", can comprehend that which is, best I can tell, incomprehensible.

I accept the gist of your argument as I understand it: You gotta be out of your mind for telling me I'm oughta mine for not believing your unsupportable claims simply cause you made you an utterance.

We see within the god concept that any and all incongruencies, any discrepencies, are "explained away" by the simple notion that this "omniscience" done did him a whole bunch of "omniscieing", only he can't, in all his "omnipotence" understand why we act the way we do.

God is not omniscient, it's just his proponents think they are.

[Divine Insight]

Divine Insight, I have to say, THANK YOU for debating in such a Civilized way!

See? I told you I'm perfect. I'm even perfectly civilized.

But I warn you ahead of time that I can be perfectly uncouth at times too.

So you need to be careful when interacting with a truly perfect being like me.

However, an All Powerful, All Knowing, Perfect being would NOT Want/Need to do ANYTHING. It is already Perfect in every way, and Lacks Nothing!

You just hit the nail on the head right there.

You simply misunderstand perfection.

A God who lacks nothing would be far from perfect. In fact it would be totally devoid of lacking. Therefore it would be inept at lacking.

If this God is to be perfect in every imaginable way it must also be perfectly lacking. Therefore it must lack everything as part of it's perfect nature.

You mentioned that we need to eat and sleep and we get tired, and we prefer some things over other things like laying on a beach as opposed to having to shovel out a septic tank, etc.

Well, think of a perfect God. It needs no energy, or rest. It never gets tired, because as you point out, it has no need to lay on beaches or shovel out septic tanks. It just exists in a state of pure bliss.

But even perfect pure bliss gets boring. God probably thought to itself, "Hmmm? I wonder what it would be like if I had to work at existing?"

That thought itself was a prefect thought as all thoughts are perfect. But being a question it was without an answer. God wanted to know that answer. So being omnipotent God created a situation where he had to work to get out of it. And when he had this experience it was refreshing and exhilarating. And God thought, "Wow that was fun!".

Being omnipotent and having enjoyed the exhilaration of having overcome something that actually required work God created the situation again. And again he was pleased with the result. God kept doing this over and over again in more complexity until it came to a point where God was imagining being great multitudes of individuals, all of whom need to eat, sleep and go to the bathroom.

And God saw that it was fun.

And so that's what's happening today. We are this God pretending to be needy and mortal and imperfect and silly. And most of us seem to like being in this predicament. If fact, we like it so much we dream and imagine that some God might exist who can perpetuate this silliness for eternity.

Well such a God does exist, and "Tat T'vam Asi" you are that.

You will someday wake up and realize that you were just playing silly games with yourself and that your natural state is one of pure boring bliss.

And when you get there you will be so thankful that this is indeed your true nature and you will wallow in the pure unadulterated bliss for a while before you become bored again and decide to dive into another incarnation of eating, sleeping, and going to the bathroom.

And that is the truth of reality if you care to believe it.

It's actually the truth of reality even if you don't care to believe it. But who cares about that?

[connermt]

Be honest, and think about that.

IF there were this "Perfect" being, it would Want NOTHING. It would Need NOTHING. Why? Because it would Lack NOTHING! It would just.....Be. It would Just...Exist.

If you think about it that way, why, and I ask WHY would that Omnipotent being have made us in the first place................if he was already Perfect in every way!?? A Want? A Need? An Omnipotent being making us goes against him being Perfect in the first place!


But, for arguments sake:

A being that Powerful and Perfect would most certainly NOT be interested in us Mere Humans, that is for Sure!! Just imagine the disparity between us and a being like that! It would be like us worrying about some Cells worshiping us, but multiply the disparity of us and those cells by infinity to cover the distance between us that Perfect being! Do you spend your life caring, rewarding, and ready to CONDEMN something so beneath you?? Do you get filled with as much Rage as that Omnipotent being.......over something SO BENEATH you!??


Think about this in an Honest, Serious way. If you do, you will see that IF there is some "God", it most certainly is NOT All Powerful, Perfect, and Omnipotent.


I'll leave you with this:


"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"

-Epicurus

That would make sense. Unfortunately, believers like to tweak definitions to fit their needs. In this case, they like to say perfect means "encompasses everything". This would mean that a perfect being (AKA god) both has and doesn't have, "needs".
Ridiculous is an understatement.
But you're correct, and all powerful, all knowing, perfect being wouldn't have any need.
Humans aren't perfect. God is (said to be). God does know everything (it's said). And we don't know everything. Yet we still feel the need to research "less significant" creatures (ants, bacteria, cells....) God is (said to be) perfect. Thus, there is no need to research/contact/interfere with humanity even IF it does love humanity.
Ridiculous superstitious concept IMO

[woodpen]

That thought itself was a prefect thought as all thoughts are perfect. But being a question it was without an answer. God wanted to know that answer.

-

Wow. If you truly believe that, then you had me fooled. You must be an Athiest on here being sarcastic. pretending to be a Religious person!



If not, then how do you NOT see that statement as being Contrary to an "All Knowing" being!???

I mean, how can you say he had a question...........WITHOUT AN ANSWER!!???? THAT is NOT an ALL KNOWING being! All Knowing means he knows EVERYTHING. There is NOTHING he does not know. That is one part of being Omnipotent!


Again I say, I'm not sure if you are being serious with that statement.


.

DI is yankin' your chain, to an extent. Read some of his other posts, they're bloody everywhere . He sometimes likes to point to the absurdity of the biblical god.