Let's cut to the chase. Do you have any evidence?

[no evidence no belief]

I feel like we've been beating around the bush for... 6000 years!

Can you please either provide some evidence for your supernatural beliefs, or admit that you have no evidence?

If you believe there once was a talking donkey (Numbers 22) could you please provide evidence?

If you believe there once was a zombie invasion in Jerusalem (Mat 27) could you please provide evidence?

If you believe in the flying horse (Islam) could you please provide evidence?

Walking on water, virgin births, radioactive spiders who give you superpowers, turning water into wine, turning iron into gold, demons, goblins, ghosts, hobbits, elves, angels, unicorns and Santa.

Can you PLEASE provide evidence?

[no evidence no belief]

Oppose the Taliban because they are fascists, not because they are believers. Oppose them for what they do, not for what they believe.

Beliefs inform actions.

This is reason Jax. You have no power to change what they believe, but you can stop them from hurting others.

No power to change what they believe? Have you ever heard of the branch of human communication called "persuasion"?

I renew my question to you from another thread. Do you support the war against the Taliban? If you answered this already, my apologies, as I've lost track of where I asked this earlier.

Do you support sending our volunteers in to Afghanistan to fight it out with the Taliban fascists? I've yet to meet a forum atheist who can answer this with an enthusiastic unqualified unambiguous yes. There's still time to be the first!

No. I do not support sending people to kill the same "bad guys" that we were selling weapons to a few years ago. This whole war thing is horrible.

It's much better to try to attain a healthy and peaceful world society by communication and education, which you claim is impossible.

Thankfully you yourself admit that you live in a fantasy world, so I will not be missing my sleep over your estimation.

[no evidence no belief]

I feel like we've been beating around the bush for... 6000 years!

Can you please either provide some evidence for your supernatural beliefs, or admit that you have no evidence?

If you believe there once was a talking donkey (Numbers 22) could you please provide evidence?

If you believe there once was a zombie invasion in Jerusalem (Mat 27) could you please provide evidence?

If you believe in the flying horse (Islam) could you please provide evidence?

Walking on water, virgin births, radioactive spiders who give you superpowers, turning water into wine, turning iron into gold, demons, goblins, ghosts, hobbits, elves, angels, unicorns and Santa.

Can you PLEASE provide evidence?

It isn't the supply of evidence that is in question......it's the suppression of it.

Evidence isn't evidence when truth is denied. It happened all the time in German courts in the 1930's. Looks like it's happening again in America.

Seig Heil to the Stars and Stripes.

Want evidence? Try this.

The level of lasciviousness and debauchery in America has reached levels surpassing those in the Bible that cried out for divine wrath.

IF GOD DOES NOT JUDGE AMERICA HE WILL HAVE TO APOLOGIZE TO SODOM AND GOMORRAH.

Now sit back and wonder why so many terrible things are happening to our country...or just blow it off as coincidence....until they hit harder and faster like hammer blows. Eventually even the most jaded scoffer will seriously consider whether their sins have caused it. The answer will be 'yes' and the conclusion ought to follow to repent.

and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft....

I'm really confused. You're talking about the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah by a supernatural entity... as though it were a real thing that actually happened.

My nephew is 5 years old and figured out all by himself that Superman can't be real because people can't just fly like that.

Are you truly incapable of the same exercise of basic rational thought? Can you truly not put 2 and 2 together and come to the realization that there is a difference between reality and fiction?


Oh, and just as a side point, if God were real and if he DID kill everybody in Sodom and Gomorrah, he would have to apologize to them irrespective of what he would do to America.

I know you will disagree, but I think genocide is wrong.

[Tired of the Nonsense]

[Replying to Philbert]

Do you support sending our volunteers in to Afghanistan to fight it out with the Taliban fascists? I've yet to meet a forum atheist who can answer this with an enthusiastic unqualified unambiguous yes. There's still time to be the first!

Allow me to be the first. Afghanistan was the war that should have been waged with all of the might of the U.S. military right from the very beginning, and not that stupid ego trip detour into Iraq that Bush pushed us into. If Afghanistan had been the top priority then much if not all of the top leadership of Al-Qaeda might well have been taken out by 2003 and the Taliban thoroughly destroyed. Instead most of Al-Qaeda's leaders were allowed to slip away into Pakistan. Because instead of a wholehearted war in Afghanistan Bush was preoccupied with his hatred for Saddam Hussain and pushed us into a war with Iraq over WMD's that didn't exist, which caused the deaths of 4500 US servicemen, hundreds of thousands of Iraqis, and served only to create a huge power vacuum in the region for Muslim extremists to exploit. Bush created an unnecessary war with no plan for an end game, and for this reason alone he should be considered one of the most disastrous President's in American history. And then of course there was the near total collapse of the U.S. economy which occurred mainly due to vigorous deregulating efforts on the part of the Republican congress, but which was done on Bush's watch and with his tacit approval. Republican's love to talk tough, but have proved to be total disasters for the country and the world when given the actual reins of power. A record of deceit, fumbling and failure going all the way back to the Tricky Dick Nixon administration.

[Danmark]

The level of lasciviousness and debauchery in America has reached levels surpassing those in the Bible that cried out for divine wrath.

IF GOD DOES NOT JUDGE AMERICA HE WILL HAVE TO APOLOGIZE TO SODOM AND GOMORRAH.

And if you are correct about America being worse than Sodom and Gomorrah by your "god's" standards [and who am I to argue with you about that?] then "god's" absence of a response is just one more big chunk of evidence that your "god" is either dead or never was.

[Philbert]

No power to change what they believe? Have you ever heard of the branch of human communication called "persuasion"?

Please read very slowly as I use your own system to analyze this.

1) You see no credible evidence of God, so you don't believe in God.

2) I see no credible evidence of your ability to persuade, so I don't believe in your ability to persuade.

Pretty simple, right? If you now argue with this, you will be arguing with yourself, with your own system, which you have been endlessly blabbing about here on the forum.

No. I do not support sending people to kill the same "bad guys" that we were selling weapons to a few years ago. This whole war thing is horrible.

Yup, it's the same tired old routine on every forum, I've seen it a thousand times.

First the adamant atheist stands up and makes a big loud speech about what a threat theists are to civilization, and lists all the horrors theists have committed, and declares a holy war upon theist beliefs because theists are so very dangerous....

And then when it comes to supporting the armed struggle against murderous theist fascists currently underway in Afghanistan, theists who really are horrible, who really are blowing up kids every day and so on....

The adamant atheist retreats in to a bunch of blah blah blah, and has a million reasons why we shouldn't be involved in fighting murderous theist fascists.

This is why I keep saying that you guys aren't actually interested in violence at all, your only interest appears to be in inflating your own ego via the fantasy that you are some kind of amazing logic master etc etc...

Just a circle jerk, and nothing more.

My argument is not that there's something wrong with a circle jerk but that there's something stupid about pretending it's not a circle jerk.

Well ok, ok, I do realize that fantasy can be an important part of sex, so perhaps you can make a good argument in that direction.

[instantc]

2) I see no credible evidence of your ability to persuade, so I don't believe in your ability to persuade.

World is full of people who have abandoned their beliefs on basis of rational arguments they have read in books, internet and so forth. I personally know plenty.

[Philbert]

World is full of people who have abandoned their beliefs on basis of rational arguments they have read in books, internet and so forth. I personally know plenty.

Where is the list of people YOU have personally persuaded to convert from theism to atheism?

If you can not provide evidence of your ability to persuade, we are bound by your own system not to believe in such an ability.

If you can not provide evidence of your ability to persuade, in order to be rational you'll have to state some other reason for your participation here.

What's happening here is that I'm using your system to help you emerge from fantasy, a goal you yourself have repeatedly declared to be important.

So now we will find out if you actually believe your own words.

[instantc]

World is full of people who have abandoned their beliefs on basis of rational arguments they have read in books, internet and so forth. I personally know plenty.

Where is the list of people YOU have personally persuaded to convert from theism to atheism?

If you can not provide evidence of your ability to persuade, we are bound by your own system not to believe in such an ability.

I know people who have abandoned their beliefs after reading Dawkins's books. If his words can do the trick, then it is likely that some people here stand a chance as well. After all, some arguments I have seen here are much more convincing than the ones in God Delusion. This is a good reason to believe that the collective effort in this forum can potentially change people's minds about their doctrines. Thus, this is not a waste of time.

[Philbert]

I know people who have abandoned their beliefs after reading Dawkins's books. If his words can do the trick, then it is likely that some people here stand a chance as well. After all, some arguments I have seen here are much more convincing than the ones in God Delusion. This is a good reason to believe that the collective effort in this forum can potentially change people's minds about their doctrines. Thus, this is not a waste of time.

Ok, that's a nice theory, but....

Where's the evidence?

Do you see how you are continually dodging the call for evidence of your own persuasive powers?

Do you see how you keep posting, posting, posting, in spite of a lack of evidence of your persuasion powers, and I do the same?

If you should someday become serious about being persuasive on these topics you'll have to understand why theists ignore evidence, and the best way to do that is to understand why YOU ignore evidence.

If your focus remains continually outward, you'll never be credible critic.

[instantc]

I know people who have abandoned their beliefs after reading Dawkins's books. If his words can do the trick, then it is likely that some people here stand a chance as well. After all, some arguments I have seen here are much more convincing than the ones in God Delusion. This is a good reason to believe that the collective effort in this forum can potentially change people's minds about their doctrines. Thus, this is not a waste of time.

Ok, that's a nice theory, but....

Where's the evidence?

Do you see how you are continually dodging the call for evidence of your own persuasive powers?

Do you see how you keep posting, posting, posting, in spite of a lack of evidence of your persuasion powers, and I do the same?

Is going to college waste of time, unless you have credible evidence that you can pass all the necessary courses? I reckon that it's worth a shot if there is a fair chance of passing, which can then be inferred from the success of others, don't you think?