Moral objective values...

[whisperit]

[font=Verdana]In one of his papers, Dr. William Lane Craig (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Lane_Craig) argues moral objective values is to say something is right or wrong independently of whether anybody believes it to be so. If God does not exist, what is the foundation for moral objective values?[/font][/url]

[keithprosser3]

So there is an actual right and wrong but not an objective right and wrong.

Got it.

So is the holocaust actually bad?

[Goat]

So there is an actual right and wrong but not an objective right and wrong.

Got it.

So is the holocaust actually bad?

Subjectively, to the victims, yes, it was actually bad. That goes to the families, and the survivors too.

Ever meet and talk to a concentration camp survivor?

[10CC]

.

Who is denying there is a right and wrong?

Those who deny the objectivity of morality, deny that there is an actual right or wrong.

How absolutely wrong could this not be? It couldn't.
What an asinine thing to say.

Please, Please, Please, Please, Please, tell me JUST ONE objective moral and you will win this argument.

That's it.
Just ONE objective moral that is right and you win. Just ONE.

[olavisjo]

.

Subjectively, to the victims, yes, it was actually bad. That goes to the families, and the survivors too.

Ever meet and talk to a concentration camp survivor?

I never did meet them, but here is a list of survivors.

Subjectively, it was not actually all that bad for them.

[olavisjo]

.

Who is denying there is a right and wrong?

Those who deny the objectivity of morality, deny that there is an actual right or wrong.

How absolutely wrong could this not be? It couldn't.
What an asinine thing to say.

Please, Please, Please, Please, Please, tell me JUST ONE objective moral and you will win this argument.

That's it.
Just ONE objective moral that is right and you win. Just ONE.

It seems to me that you made a claim that you never defended, would you care to do so, or show me where you already did. Else, please withdraw your claim.

Yes it's a very subjective definition. But try to defend it if you want.

A definition need not be defended.

Probably a good idea, since [claim] there is no such thing as objective morality. [/claim]

You made the claim, please defend it or withdraw it.

[10CC]

.

Subjectively, to the victims, yes, it was actually bad. That goes to the families, and the survivors too.

Ever meet and talk to a concentration camp survivor?

I never did meet them, but here is a list of survivors.

Subjectively, it was not actually all that bad for them.

Just one moral imperative that is OBJECTIVE, that's all I ask.

[Goat]

.

Subjectively, to the victims, yes, it was actually bad. That goes to the families, and the survivors too.

Ever meet and talk to a concentration camp survivor?

I never did meet them, but here is a list of survivors.

Subjectively, it was not actually all that bad for them.

I have to disagree.. I have met survivors. Subjectively it was bad for them. I have met people who saw their families killed in front of them. Subjectively it was bad for them. So, don't give me that nonsense.

[keithprosser3]

Goat - did you actually click the link Olavisjo provided? It's to a list of Nazi war criminals, a rather dark inversion of expectation for the word 'survivor'.

[Goat]

Goat - did you actually click the link Olavisjo provided? It's to a list of Nazi war criminals, a rather dark inversion of expectation for the word 'survivor'.

No, I didn't.

However, that does not stop the fact I have friends whose families were intimately involved in being victims.

And, many of those 'war criminals' were put into prison or executed for their actions. I would not call them 'unaffected' by it..

And, I would not call any of them 'survivors of the holocaust' either. That is a very insulting and highly bigoted equivocation.

[keithprosser3]

I am sure Olavisjo will post his own apology shortly. It is unfortunate that the holocaust has become our go-to example of an evil act when it is a matter of genuine personal concern to many. I will try to keep that in mind.