Homosexuality

[razovor]

I was wondering if anyone who considers homosexuality a sin, could tell me what is wrong with it.

I'm talking in the sense of utilitarian morals. How does homosexual intercourse, or homosexual marriage, increase the suffering in the world?

[Wissing]

it seems to me that opposing homosexuality in 21st century harms society

It leads to sham marriages

most studies also show that adoption is superior to the foster care system

Thanks for your opinions; I'll look up these statements for you this weekend

being like russia, where the educated have mostly fled because that country is so backwards

Here's an interesting read:
N. Zernov, The Russian Religious Renaissance of the Twentieth Century (1963)

[Sonofason]

I was wondering if anyone who considers homosexuality a sin, could tell me what is wrong with it.

I'm talking in the sense of utilitarian morals. How does homosexual intercourse, or homosexual marriage, increase the suffering in the world?

The word "sin" can and is defined as an offense against religious or moral law.
It is also defined as an action that is or is felt to be highly reprehensible.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sin

I find that the act of dipping one's body parts into a cesspool as a means to experience pleasure to be absolutely reprehensible. The Bible states that even God considers homosexual acts to be an abomination.

Therefore, I believe that homosexuality is wrong.

[master_blaster]

[Replying to post 111 by Sonofason]

Most anal sex is done by hetero couples and a lot of gay couples refrain from that. Being an ignorant and thinking that's all there is to homosexuality, i'm sure that's never crossed your mind.

[Sonofason]

[Replying to post 111 by Sonofason]

Most anal sex is done by hetero couples and a lot of gay couples refrain from that. Being an ignorant and thinking that's all there is to homosexuality, i'm sure that's never crossed your mind.

homosexual -
1. of, relating to, or characterized by a tendency to direct sexual desire toward another of the same sex.
2. of, relating to, or involving sexual intercourse between persons of the same sex
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/homosexual

gay - a homosexual, esp. a man.
https://www.google.com/search?q=homosex ... gay+define

homosexuality -
1. the quality or state of being homosexual
2. erotic activity with another of the same sex
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/p ... e&p=609759

Who are you trying to kid?
I have a very clear understanding of what it is to be homosexual. Why don't you?

[keithprosser3]

I think it must be the case that homosexuality does produce a very real feeling of disgust in some individuals, regardless of the religious affiliation. I certainly know a few guys who are not at all religious but have genuine revulsion at the thought of men having sex together (while being all in favour of lesbianism, provided they can watch!).

I don't know what the psychology of homophobia is, but religion isn't all of it. I think when an individual has a homophobic psychology and is also religious then you get a pretty explosive mix!

As Sonofason isn't likely to give up his faith any time soon, the question of whether he would still find the idea of homosexual activity repulsive if he was an atheist is moot, but I wonder if he would care to consider that hypothetical? I do that without any demand for response, but it might be an interesting thing to know.

[DanieltheDragon]

[Replying to Sonofason]

I would like to know how homosexuality increases suffering in the world?

Also keith could it be social psychology that plays into it. Given we come from a culture where for men masculinity is placed on a high pedestal and feminine traits threaten a masculine image?

After all in Roman and Greek times as long as you weren't "catching" they didn't consider it feminine and culturally there was no disgrace there and hence not frowned upon?

[Sonofason]

I think it must be the case that homosexuality does produce a very real feeling of disgust in some individuals, regardless of the religious affiliation. I certainly know a few guys who are not at all religious but have genuine revulsion at the thought of men having sex together (while being all in favour of lesbianism, provided they can watch!).

I don't know what the psychology of homophobia is, but religion isn't all of it. I think when an individual has a homophobic psychology and is also religious then you get a pretty explosive mix!

As Sonofason isn't likely to give up his faith any time soon, the question of whether he would still find the idea of homosexual activity repulsive if he was an atheist is moot, but I wonder if he would care to consider that hypothetical? I do that without any demand for response, but it might be an interesting thing to know.

I like to swim in pure and clean water. I know oftentimes there is a great deal of sediment at the bottom of the pond. But if someone were to stir up the water in the pond, it is very likely that the sediment at the bottom of the pond will be introduced into the pure waters of the pond, thereby muddying the waters of the entire pond. It is my preference to avoid muddying the waters, especially the waters I like to swim in.

I'm not suggesting there is anything necessarily wrong with sediment. It may be quite natural to be sediment. It may even be quite natural for a pure water pond to become muddied by the sediments below. But I don't like dirty water. I don't drink from it. And I don't swim in it.

[Sonofason]

[Replying to Sonofason]

I would like to know how homosexuality increases suffering in the world?

Also keith could it be social psychology that plays into it. Given we come from a culture where for men masculinity is placed on a high pedestal and feminine traits threaten a masculine image?

After all in Roman and Greek times as long as you weren't "catching" they didn't consider it feminine and culturally there was no disgrace there and hence not frowned upon?

I don't really care if homosexuality causes suffering in the world. Maybe it does, and maybe it doesn't. I imagine there are cases when it does, and cases where it doesn't. I imagine that in some cases homosexuality has been an indirect cause for suffering in the world. In other cases, I suppose, it has been a direct cause of suffering in the world. I imagine that homosexuality can also be a cause of happiness for some people.

But honestly, you are changing the subject, and I don't blame you.

[Darias]

The word "sin" can and is defined as an offense against religious or moral law.
It is also defined as an action that is or is felt to be highly reprehensible.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sin

I find that the act of dipping one's body parts into a cesspool as a means to experience pleasure to be absolutely reprehensible. The Bible states that even God considers homosexual acts to be an abomination.

Therefore, I believe that homosexuality is wrong.

I'm not really a fan of anal sex either, but I can tell you that people who engage in same sex relations do not have a monopoly on that sex position. LGBT persons are a very tiny minority of the rest of the population, which regularly engages in sodomy.

However one cannot determine what's right or wrong based of personal disgust. Chinese food disgusts me but it's not a sin to eat food of that particular arrangement. If anal sex disgusts Yahweh, only between men, then he shouldn't have put the male G spot in the rear.

Of course, if I were a magical creator being, I wouldn't put an amusement park in the middle of a sewer system, and would probably designate separate orifices for reproduction.

In any case, for men or women, there are ways to maintain cleanliness. There's such things as condoms and douches and such. And there's this thing called a shower and soap.

[Replying to post 111 by Sonofason]

Most anal sex is done by hetero couples and a lot of gay couples refrain from that. Being an ignorant and thinking that's all there is to homosexuality, i'm sure that's never crossed your mind.

homosexual -
1. of, relating to, or characterized by a tendency to direct sexual desire toward another of the same sex.
2. of, relating to, or involving sexual intercourse between persons of the same sex
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/homosexual

gay - a homosexual, esp. a man.
https://www.google.com/search?q=homosex ... gay+define

homosexuality -
1. the quality or state of being homosexual
2. erotic activity with another of the same sex
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/p ... e&p=609759

Who are you trying to kid?
I have a very clear understanding of what it is to be homosexual. Why don't you?

Sex between males is not the same thing as sodomy, and sodomy isn't restricted to anal sex. Many straight couples engage in both forms of sodomy on a regular basis.

This probably hadn't occurred to you, but there's more ways for men to have sex than via the backdoor. I'm pretty green when it comes to the topic of sex, but I know at least that the the number of sex positions for men or women are probably more numerous than I can imagine. But gay people can face each other during sex just as easily as straight people can.

I think it must be the case that homosexuality does produce a very real feeling of disgust in some individuals, regardless of the religious affiliation. I certainly know a few guys who are not at all religious but have genuine revulsion at the thought of men having sex together (while being all in favour of lesbianism, provided they can watch!).

I don't know what the psychology of homophobia is, but religion isn't all of it. I think when an individual has a homophobic psychology and is also religious then you get a pretty explosive mix!

As Sonofason isn't likely to give up his faith any time soon, the question of whether he would still find the idea of homosexual activity repulsive if he was an atheist is moot, but I wonder if he would care to consider that hypothetical? I do that without any demand for response, but it might be an interesting thing to know.

There's nothing wrong with being disgusted by homosexual sex. I'm pretty grossed out by a lot of different fetishes and such. I don't like the idea of spanking. 50 Sades of Gray, not that I read it, seems more like a horror film than erotic literature. Some people like whips and chains and others like rubber suits or whatever -- it's all weird to me. Sonofason doens't like anal sex. He doesn't have to. You can like whatever you want, so long as it doesn't hurt anyone who doesn't want to be hurt.

I don't understand why you would call revulsion homophobia. One's revulsion isn't necessarily hurting anyone else. Asexuals think the transmission of bodily fluids is the grossest thing imaginable -- are they practicing bigotry against people who like sex?

But of course if you vote to impose laws on others, you're an authoritarian -- and it doesn't matter if you're an atheist or a Christian. It doesn't matter if the law you're voting for is capital punishment for gays, national recognition of churches, or smoking bans.

The only "sin" here is when people practice coercion and sanction state violence via voting in order to get what they want. As far as this goes, no one here is innocent of having committed that aggression.



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[DanieltheDragon]

[Replying to post 117 by Sonofason]

I am not changing the subject, someone asked a believer who sees homosexuality as a sin if they feel it is a cause for suffering in the world. You responded by saying it was a sin but that wasn't the question to paraphrase "if they feel it is a cause for suffering in the world" was the question just trying to keep you on the subject.

So since homosexuality is a null value in the world should there be any reason to restrict rights and privileges afforded to heterosexuals provided by and in regards to government and state affairs?