Let's cut to the chase. Do you have any evidence?

[no evidence no belief]

I feel like we've been beating around the bush for... 6000 years!

Can you please either provide some evidence for your supernatural beliefs, or admit that you have no evidence?

If you believe there once was a talking donkey (Numbers 22) could you please provide evidence?

If you believe there once was a zombie invasion in Jerusalem (Mat 27) could you please provide evidence?

If you believe in the flying horse (Islam) could you please provide evidence?

Walking on water, virgin births, radioactive spiders who give you superpowers, turning water into wine, turning iron into gold, demons, goblins, ghosts, hobbits, elves, angels, unicorns and Santa.

Can you PLEASE provide evidence?

[no evidence no belief]

[Replying to post 2047 by JohnA]

Noevidencenobelief wrote:

Except for random ramblings of various sorts, we've had Goose claiming that a putrefied brain-dead, heart-dead, maggot-infested carcass of a carpenter, with blood fully clotted in its veins and failed liver, kidneys, lungs, etc, after decomposing in the middle-eastern heat for 3 days, came back to life and then flew into the sky like Rudolph the Red Nose Reindeer.

His evidence for this: He claims that some people wrote down that they saw it happen.

Sonofason wrote:

You are somewhat mistaken I think. You see it is not a claim that some people wrote down that they saw it happen. It is a fact that some people wrote down that they saw it happen.

JohnA wrote:

He never claimed it was. He said that Goose claimed that some people wrote down that they saw it happen.

This statement of yours shall be justly ignored by me, as it holds no weight whatsoever, and adds nothing to the atheist argument. It is completely void of content. It means absolutely nothing. The fact is that people wrote down that they saw it happen, just as I said. People can make claims all day long about what the book says, and those claims are all meaningless. The book speaks for itself, and doesn't require justification by atheists or theists as to what is contains. People saw the empty tomb. People saw the risen body of Jesus Christ. Their testimony speaks for itself.

JohnA wrote:

Sure, it is a fact that I just read your post and now replying. But that does not imply that the fact supports a claim. It does not mean because of the fact that some people wrote down words the words are true and can be used as a factual information to support a claim - to convert the claim itself into a fact.
What is so hard about this to understand?
You already admitted you have NO evidence. Why are you trying your best to contradict yourself, your scripture and your central tenant of you religious dogma (faith), is absolutely beyond me.

Of course it does. Personal testimony is evidence. It is not perfect evidence, but it is evidence. And it speaks for itself.

I have no evidence to show to a closed minded atheist who refuses to acknowledge reasonable evidence. And so I say I have no evidence to show. I have no evidence to show you. I have no evidence for YOU. But I have quite substantial evidence for reasonable people who accept reasonable evidence as evidence. Don't even try asking for it, because I refuse to even try to show you one shred of evidence for anything in the future, ever. I am not trying to convince you of anything. If you should find yourself in hell, because you won't believe in God, I will be laughing my way all the way to heaven.

I completely support your statement that personal testimony is evidence. Tho' I expect there are almost no non theists or atheists here who agree with JohnA's position an anything, particularly his iconoclastic buffoonery on what evidence consists of, wouldn't you agree it is neither helpful nor instructive to suggest you "will be laughing ... [your] way all the way to heaven?"

That's an interesting question Danmark. At this point in time, I cannot determine whether or not this comment of mine was helpful or instructive. I assure you, it was intended to be helpful and instructive. But I cannot say that it was, or that it wasn't.

Look Son, the situation is very simple. If you genuinely laugh at the idea of me being tortured for eternity, then you are evil.

Enjoying horrific and undeserved pain in others makes you a horrible person.

I don't think you're a horrible person. I think you're nice, and that you just made the mistake of bearing false witness. Again.

Could you kindly admit that you bore false witness? Could you kindly admit that it's not true that you would laugh at the notion of you being in eternal bliss while I'm being tortured for eternity?

Thank you.

[Sonofason]

If you should find yourself in hell, because you won't believe in God, I will be laughing my way all the way to heaven.
.... At this point in time, I cannot determine whether or not this comment of mine was helpful or instructive. I assure you, it was intended to be helpful and instructive. But I cannot say that it was, or that it wasn't.

Can't you agree that laughing at people who go to Hell is not an act of either Christian love, or common decency? That's really the point. You are posturing that you are dancing on the heads of those who are going to spend eternity in excruciating pain. I find this attitude to be as despicable and vile and inhuman as anything I have ever read. I do not believe for one second that this is what Christianity teaches.
But it is what you teach. This attitude of expressing joy and laughter at the eternal suffering of others is certainly not Christian. It is the most hideous and deplorable exercise of hatred and lack of compassion that I can imagine. Only religion can inspire such vile hatred.

"The wicked plot against the righteous and gnash their teeth at them;
but the Lord laughs at the wicked, for he knows their day is coming."
(Psalm 37:12-13)

"But since you rejected me when I called and no one gave heed when I stretched out my hand, since you ignored all my advice and would not accept my rebuke, I in turn will laugh at your disaster; I will mock when calamity overtakes you-- when calamity overtakes you like a storm, when disaster sweeps over you like a whirlwind, when distress and trouble overwhelm you." (Proverb;1:24-27)

There's a time to laugh and a time to cry. (Ecclesiastes 3:4)

[Danmark]

"The wicked plot against the righteous and gnash their teeth at them;
but the Lord laughs at the wicked, for he knows their day is coming."
(Psalm 37:12-13)

"But since you rejected me when I called and no one gave heed when I stretched out my hand, since you ignored all my advice and would not accept my rebuke, I in turn will laugh at your disaster; I will mock when calamity overtakes you-- when calamity overtakes you like a storm, when disaster sweeps over you like a whirlwind, when distress and trouble overwhelm you." (Proverb;1:24-27)

There's a time to laugh and a time to cry. (Ecclesiastes 3:4)

As I say, this is not a 'Christian' idea. It seems to strike directly against the more frequent message of Jesus, about compassion, love, honoring the prodigal son, the Beatitudes, leaving the ninety and nine to find the lost sheep. . . .

I realize one can cherry pick verses, even in the New Testament, that can show a different aspect of His message, but isn't the central theme of Jesus more like
I say unto you that likewise more joy shall be in Heaven over one sinner that repenteth, than over ninety and nine just persons who need no repentance.

Luke 15:7

[no evidence no belief]

If you should find yourself in hell, because you won't believe in God, I will be laughing my way all the way to heaven.
.... At this point in time, I cannot determine whether or not this comment of mine was helpful or instructive. I assure you, it was intended to be helpful and instructive. But I cannot say that it was, or that it wasn't.

Can't you agree that laughing at people who go to Hell is not an act of either Christian love, or common decency? That's really the point. You are posturing that you are dancing on the heads of those who are going to spend eternity in excruciating pain. I find this attitude to be as despicable and vile and inhuman as anything I have ever read. I do not believe for one second that this is what Christianity teaches.
But it is what you teach. This attitude of expressing joy and laughter at the eternal suffering of others is certainly not Christian. It is the most hideous and deplorable exercise of hatred and lack of compassion that I can imagine. Only religion can inspire such vile hatred.

"The wicked plot against the righteous and gnash their teeth at them;
but the Lord laughs at the wicked, for he knows their day is coming."
(Psalm 37:12-13)

"But since you rejected me when I called and no one gave heed when I stretched out my hand, since you ignored all my advice and would not accept my rebuke, I in turn will laugh at your disaster; I will mock when calamity overtakes you-- when calamity overtakes you like a storm, when disaster sweeps over you like a whirlwind, when distress and trouble overwhelm you." (Proverb;1:24-27)

There's a time to laugh and a time to cry. (Ecclesiastes 3:4)

Just because the authors of these passages are evil and laugh at the pain of others, doesn't mean you should be evil as well.

Please find it in you to repent and change your evil ways. Laughing at somebody else being tortured is the kind of stuff the devil would do.

[Sonofason]

"The wicked plot against the righteous and gnash their teeth at them;
but the Lord laughs at the wicked, for he knows their day is coming."
(Psalm 37:12-13)

"But since you rejected me when I called and no one gave heed when I stretched out my hand, since you ignored all my advice and would not accept my rebuke, I in turn will laugh at your disaster; I will mock when calamity overtakes you-- when calamity overtakes you like a storm, when disaster sweeps over you like a whirlwind, when distress and trouble overwhelm you." (Proverb;1:24-27)

There's a time to laugh and a time to cry. (Ecclesiastes 3:4)

As I say, this is not a 'Christian' idea. It seems to strike directly against the more frequent message of Jesus, about compassion, love, honoring the prodigal son, the Beatitudes, leaving the ninety and nine to find the lost sheep. . . .

I realize one can cherry pick verses, even in the New Testament, that can show a different aspect of His message, but isn't the central theme of Jesus more like
I say unto you that likewise more joy shall be in Heaven over one sinner that repenteth, than over ninety and nine just persons who need no repentance.

Luke 15:7

I believe it hurts your argument when you take verses out of context. Let's start at the beginning, shall we?

Luke 15 verse 1-2
"Then drew near unto him all the publicans and sinners for to hear him. And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them."

Is it your impression that these Pharisees are in need of salvation? Clearly, in their own eyes, they are not in need of anything that Jesus had to offer. Shall they be saved? Lol, I think not. They don't need Jesus.

So who are the "ninety and nine just persons who need no repentance"? I suggest they are people who believe they don't need Jesus.

[Danmark]

"The wicked plot against the righteous and gnash their teeth at them;
but the Lord laughs at the wicked, for he knows their day is coming."
(Psalm 37:12-13)

"But since you rejected me when I called and no one gave heed when I stretched out my hand, since you ignored all my advice and would not accept my rebuke, I in turn will laugh at your disaster; I will mock when calamity overtakes you-- when calamity overtakes you like a storm, when disaster sweeps over you like a whirlwind, when distress and trouble overwhelm you." (Proverb;1:24-27)

There's a time to laugh and a time to cry. (Ecclesiastes 3:4)

As I say, this is not a 'Christian' idea. It seems to strike directly against the more frequent message of Jesus, about compassion, love, honoring the prodigal son, the Beatitudes, leaving the ninety and nine to find the lost sheep. . . .

I realize one can cherry pick verses, even in the New Testament, that can show a different aspect of His message, but isn't the central theme of Jesus more like
I say unto you that likewise more joy shall be in Heaven over one sinner that repenteth, than over ninety and nine just persons who need no repentance.

Luke 15:7

I believe it hurts your argument when you take verses out of context. Let's start at the beginning, shall we?

Luke 15 verse 1-2
"Then drew near unto him all the publicans and sinners for to hear him. And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them."

Is it your impression that these Pharisees are in need of salvation? Clearly, in their own eyes, they are not in need of anything that Jesus had to offer. Shall they be saved? Lol, I think not. They don't need Jesus.

So who are the "ninety and nine just persons who need no repentance"? I suggest they are people who believe they don't need Jesus.

Rather than undermine my argument, your selection of Luke 15:1-2 enhances it. This is yet another example of Jesus seeking out the lost sheep, as he 'receives and dines with sinners.' I think it both sad and poor scriptural interpretation to look for the evil in the Pharisees instead of seeing the joy of salvation and assurance that Jesus reaches out to sinners. I see Christianity as a shield against darkness and fear, rather than as a sword wielded to destroy. But I confess that this latter approach is the one that gets the most negative attention and drives many away from the Faith.

[Sonofason]

"The wicked plot against the righteous and gnash their teeth at them;
but the Lord laughs at the wicked, for he knows their day is coming."
(Psalm 37:12-13)

"But since you rejected me when I called and no one gave heed when I stretched out my hand, since you ignored all my advice and would not accept my rebuke, I in turn will laugh at your disaster; I will mock when calamity overtakes you-- when calamity overtakes you like a storm, when disaster sweeps over you like a whirlwind, when distress and trouble overwhelm you." (Proverb;1:24-27)

There's a time to laugh and a time to cry. (Ecclesiastes 3:4)

As I say, this is not a 'Christian' idea. It seems to strike directly against the more frequent message of Jesus, about compassion, love, honoring the prodigal son, the Beatitudes, leaving the ninety and nine to find the lost sheep. . . .

I realize one can cherry pick verses, even in the New Testament, that can show a different aspect of His message, but isn't the central theme of Jesus more like
I say unto you that likewise more joy shall be in Heaven over one sinner that repenteth, than over ninety and nine just persons who need no repentance.

Luke 15:7

I believe it hurts your argument when you take verses out of context. Let's start at the beginning, shall we?

Luke 15 verse 1-2
"Then drew near unto him all the publicans and sinners for to hear him. And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them."

Is it your impression that these Pharisees are in need of salvation? Clearly, in their own eyes, they are not in need of anything that Jesus had to offer. Shall they be saved? Lol, I think not. They don't need Jesus.

So who are the "ninety and nine just persons who need no repentance"? I suggest they are people who believe they don't need Jesus.

Rather than undermine my argument, your selection of Luke 15:1-2 enhances it. This is yet another example of Jesus seeking out the lost sheep, as he 'receives and dines with sinners.' I think it both sad and poor scriptural interpretation to look for the evil in the Pharisees instead of seeing the joy of salvation and assurance that Jesus reaches out to sinners. I see Christianity as a shield against darkness and fear, rather than as a sword wielded to destroy. But I confess that this latter approach is the one that gets the most negative attention and drives many away from the Faith.

I'm sorry friend, there is no righteous person in this entire world that is not in need of the redemption offered through Christ.

"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus." (Romans 3:23-26)

All have sinned.
All come short.
No one is righteous.

[10CC]

"The wicked plot against the righteous and gnash their teeth at them;
but the Lord laughs at the wicked, for he knows their day is coming."
(Psalm 37:12-13)

"But since you rejected me when I called and no one gave heed when I stretched out my hand, since you ignored all my advice and would not accept my rebuke, I in turn will laugh at your disaster; I will mock when calamity overtakes you-- when calamity overtakes you like a storm, when disaster sweeps over you like a whirlwind, when distress and trouble overwhelm you." (Proverb;1:24-27)

There's a time to laugh and a time to cry. (Ecclesiastes 3:4)

As I say, this is not a 'Christian' idea. It seems to strike directly against the more frequent message of Jesus, about compassion, love, honoring the prodigal son, the Beatitudes, leaving the ninety and nine to find the lost sheep. . . .

I realize one can cherry pick verses, even in the New Testament, that can show a different aspect of His message, but isn't the central theme of Jesus more like
I say unto you that likewise more joy shall be in Heaven over one sinner that repenteth, than over ninety and nine just persons who need no repentance.

Luke 15:7

I believe it hurts your argument when you take verses out of context. Let's start at the beginning, shall we?

Luke 15 verse 1-2
"Then drew near unto him all the publicans and sinners for to hear him. And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them."

Is it your impression that these Pharisees are in need of salvation? Clearly, in their own eyes, they are not in need of anything that Jesus had to offer. Shall they be saved? Lol, I think not. They don't need Jesus.

So who are the "ninety and nine just persons who need no repentance"? I suggest they are people who believe they don't need Jesus.

Rather than undermine my argument, your selection of Luke 15:1-2 enhances it. This is yet another example of Jesus seeking out the lost sheep, as he 'receives and dines with sinners.' I think it both sad and poor scriptural interpretation to look for the evil in the Pharisees instead of seeing the joy of salvation and assurance that Jesus reaches out to sinners. I see Christianity as a shield against darkness and fear, rather than as a sword wielded to destroy. But I confess that this latter approach is the one that gets the most negative attention and drives many away from the Faith.

I'm sorry friend, there is no righteous person in this entire world that is not in need of the redemption offered through Christ.

"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus." (Romans 3:23-26)

All have sinned.
All come short.
No one is righteous.

Yes even the foetus in the womb.

Praise god.

[Sonofason]

"The wicked plot against the righteous and gnash their teeth at them;
but the Lord laughs at the wicked, for he knows their day is coming."
(Psalm 37:12-13)

"But since you rejected me when I called and no one gave heed when I stretched out my hand, since you ignored all my advice and would not accept my rebuke, I in turn will laugh at your disaster; I will mock when calamity overtakes you-- when calamity overtakes you like a storm, when disaster sweeps over you like a whirlwind, when distress and trouble overwhelm you." (Proverb;1:24-27)

There's a time to laugh and a time to cry. (Ecclesiastes 3:4)

As I say, this is not a 'Christian' idea. It seems to strike directly against the more frequent message of Jesus, about compassion, love, honoring the prodigal son, the Beatitudes, leaving the ninety and nine to find the lost sheep. . . .

I realize one can cherry pick verses, even in the New Testament, that can show a different aspect of His message, but isn't the central theme of Jesus more like
I say unto you that likewise more joy shall be in Heaven over one sinner that repenteth, than over ninety and nine just persons who need no repentance.

Luke 15:7

I believe it hurts your argument when you take verses out of context. Let's start at the beginning, shall we?

Luke 15 verse 1-2
"Then drew near unto him all the publicans and sinners for to hear him. And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them."

Is it your impression that these Pharisees are in need of salvation? Clearly, in their own eyes, they are not in need of anything that Jesus had to offer. Shall they be saved? Lol, I think not. They don't need Jesus.

So who are the "ninety and nine just persons who need no repentance"? I suggest they are people who believe they don't need Jesus.

Rather than undermine my argument, your selection of Luke 15:1-2 enhances it. This is yet another example of Jesus seeking out the lost sheep, as he 'receives and dines with sinners.' I think it both sad and poor scriptural interpretation to look for the evil in the Pharisees instead of seeing the joy of salvation and assurance that Jesus reaches out to sinners. I see Christianity as a shield against darkness and fear, rather than as a sword wielded to destroy. But I confess that this latter approach is the one that gets the most negative attention and drives many away from the Faith.

I'm sorry friend, there is no righteous person in this entire world that is not in need of the redemption offered through Christ.

"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus." (Romans 3:23-26)

All have sinned.
All come short.
No one is righteous.

Yes even the foetus in the womb.

Praise god.

Haven't you heard? A foetus is not a person.

[10CC]

"The wicked plot against the righteous and gnash their teeth at them;
but the Lord laughs at the wicked, for he knows their day is coming."
(Psalm 37:12-13)

"But since you rejected me when I called and no one gave heed when I stretched out my hand, since you ignored all my advice and would not accept my rebuke, I in turn will laugh at your disaster; I will mock when calamity overtakes you-- when calamity overtakes you like a storm, when disaster sweeps over you like a whirlwind, when distress and trouble overwhelm you." (Proverb;1:24-27)

There's a time to laugh and a time to cry. (Ecclesiastes 3:4)

As I say, this is not a 'Christian' idea. It seems to strike directly against the more frequent message of Jesus, about compassion, love, honoring the prodigal son, the Beatitudes, leaving the ninety and nine to find the lost sheep. . . .

I realize one can cherry pick verses, even in the New Testament, that can show a different aspect of His message, but isn't the central theme of Jesus more like
I say unto you that likewise more joy shall be in Heaven over one sinner that repenteth, than over ninety and nine just persons who need no repentance.

Luke 15:7

I believe it hurts your argument when you take verses out of context. Let's start at the beginning, shall we?

Luke 15 verse 1-2
"Then drew near unto him all the publicans and sinners for to hear him. And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them."

Is it your impression that these Pharisees are in need of salvation? Clearly, in their own eyes, they are not in need of anything that Jesus had to offer. Shall they be saved? Lol, I think not. They don't need Jesus.

So who are the "ninety and nine just persons who need no repentance"? I suggest they are people who believe they don't need Jesus.

Rather than undermine my argument, your selection of Luke 15:1-2 enhances it. This is yet another example of Jesus seeking out the lost sheep, as he 'receives and dines with sinners.' I think it both sad and poor scriptural interpretation to look for the evil in the Pharisees instead of seeing the joy of salvation and assurance that Jesus reaches out to sinners. I see Christianity as a shield against darkness and fear, rather than as a sword wielded to destroy. But I confess that this latter approach is the one that gets the most negative attention and drives many away from the Faith.

I'm sorry friend, there is no righteous person in this entire world that is not in need of the redemption offered through Christ.

"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus." (Romans 3:23-26)

All have sinned.
All come short.
No one is righteous.

Yes even the foetus in the womb.

Praise god.

Haven't you heard? A foetus is not a person.

Haven't you read? That passage never mentions persons it just says all.