The Negation in 'Do Not Believe' Statements

[iamtaka]

Atheists often claim, "I do not believe God exists." When asked to clarify what they mean, they point out that they lack belief in God's existence. When they read the sentence provided, they see the negation as being applied to the verb believe and not the content of belief (i.e., God exists). That is, "do not believe" means simply "lacking belief."

Alternatively, if the negation applied to the content of belief, then the statement could be rephrased as "I believe no God exists." or "I believe God does not exist." This means the atheist would not "lack belief in God's existence" but would rather hold a belief about the non-existence of God.

Question for debate:
Q. Within a linguistic context, does the negation apply to the verb believe or the content of belief?

[10CC]

Question for debate:
Q. Within a linguistic context, does the negation apply to the verb believe or the content of belief?

People "CLAIM" a god/s existence.
I reject that CLAIM.

This does not address the question for debate.

Of course it does.

From whence god?

Man's claim.

I reject man's claim.

I fail to see where your response addresses the issue of linguistic negation. Please clarify.

There isn't even a question of a linguistic negation.

"A" man makes a claim, that claim is rejected, where is the linguistics?
Where is belief even mentioned?

[iamtaka]

Those who say that they are not the same don't understand the grammatical construct of both sentences.

I agree. I agree on a much deeper level, too.

[alive]

I'm just glad that I have no beliefs either way..

[iamtaka]

I responded by showing examples of both; the two examples being equally valid linguistically, semantically and syntactically.

Your use of "semantically" and "syntactically" has piqued my interest. Please expound.

[keithprosser3]

Those who say that they are not the same don't understand the grammatical construct of both sentences.

Are you saying "Those who say that they are the same do understand the grammatical construct of both sentences."? (ie both negatives removed).

I agree on a much deeper level, too

What 'Deeper level' is there?

[Nickman]

Saying "I believe" or "I do not believe" are both claims. They are soft claims that require no supporting evidence, because they are matters of opinion. Saying "God does not exist" or "God does exist" are hard claims which require supporting evidence.

[Nickman]

I'm just glad that I have no beliefs either way..

Sure you do. It is impossible to not imply belief on the subject. Do you believe that a God exists? If you say "no" you're applying a belief and opinion that God does not exist.

[Nickman]

Those who say that they are not the same don't understand the grammatical construct of both sentences.

Are you saying "Those who say that they are the same do understand the grammatical construct of both sentences."? (ie both negatives removed).

No, because the grammatical construct of both sentences provide the same conclusion. You can reword them over and over, and they will tell you that the person has no belief in God, as well as, that they believe God does not exist.

If you have no belief in God, you believe God does not exist.

[Nickman]

Let me help focus the discussion.

1. I do not believe the Red Sox will win the World Series.
Which is an equivalent statement?
a. I believe the Red Sox will not win the World Series.
b. I lack the belief that the Red Sox will win the World Series.

2. I do not believe X equals Y.
Which is an equivalent statement?
a. I believe X does not equal Y.
b. I lack the belief that X equals Y.

3. I do not believe she is ugly.
Which is an equivalent statement?
a. I believe she is not ugly.
b. I lack the belief that she is ugly.

4. I do not believe he is fat.
Which is an equivalent statement?
a. I believe he is not fat.
b. I lack the belief that he is fat.

Your logic is correct, but what is your point? Are you saying that Atheism is a belief? If so, you are correct. What does that have to do with anything?

[iamtaka]

There isn't even a question of a linguistic negation.

There is. I posed the question.