Sodom, Greece, Rome and homosexuality.

[AlAyeti]

Does allowing for diversity include parents having no voice in what their children are forced to be taught and have to accept?

Do Christians and the many other cultures and belief systems opposed to homosexuality have the right to have their culture and religious views respected in society when it comes to decent and natural sexual behavior in the education system and in public?

Are homosexuals demanding accesss to children under the label of diversity and anti-hate legislation?

This seems the number one issue between average and normal "family" people and the homosexual agenda.

Can there be laws passed that keeps homosexuality from becoming forced on children and families that oppose it, without the homosexual community and homosexual action organizations crying discrimination?

Is there such a thing anymore as heterosexual rights?

[melikio]

How? I would be the only sinner there. Grumpy and Scrotum are atheists and homosexuals were born with an excuse away the sin of homosexuality. Doesn't seem like a good open discussion. Just a bash session in waiting. And you be quite safe in that one.

How? That's up to you, 1John. Just be certain, that no one needs to accept your input as if it comes from God's mouth. It may just RING that way in your mind, but I think the reverberations therein might be causing you to be "delusional" or "confused".

Even so, may God's will be done.

-Mel-

[melikio]

You better deal with the fact that opposition is growing to homosexualizing the Christian Church.

Later on 1John; enjoy your memes and religiously-motivated bigotry.

(BTW, what does "homosexualizing" actually mean?)

-Mel-

[1John2_26]

Quote:
How? I would be the only sinner there. Grumpy and Scrotum are atheists and homosexuals were born with an excuse away the sin of homosexuality. Doesn't seem like a good open discussion. Just a bash session in waiting. And you'd be quite safe in that one.

How? That's up to you, 1John. Just be certain, that no one needs to accept your input as if it comes from God's mouth.

Why the incessant need to paint the disapproval of sodomy so dramatically? Martyrdom works even for whiners? No one any longer tries to stop two men or two women from having same-gender sexual activity. And of course nothing has stopped the Gay Agenda as interpreting indifference and apathy as support.

It may just RING that way in your mind, but I think the reverberations therein might be causing you to be "delusional" or "confused".

When a woman can get a woman pregnant without semen or scientific help then my position will leave the realm of rationality. Nature will not be so easily bluffed or intimidated by labels.

Even so, may God's will be done.

Really? Pose that question to one of your atheist supporters.


Quote:

You better deal with the fact that opposition is growing to homosexualizing the Christian Church.

Later on 1John; enjoy your memes and religiously-motivated bigotry.

The memes (?) I do enjoy. (meme n. A unit of cultural information, such as a cultural practice or idea, that is transmitted verbally or by repeated action from one mind to another.)
The pathetic attempt to label my position as bigoted when every form of physical science supports it is laughable at best. Agenda-laden at worst.

(BTW, what does "homosexualizing" actually mean?)

I believe that the word "orientation" in its historic and traditional "meaning" is all the reply necessary.

o-ri-en-ta-tion (r-n-tshn, -n-, r-)
n.
1. The act of orienting or the state of being oriented.
2. Location or position relative to the points of the compass.
3. The construction of a church so that its longitudinal axis has an east-west direction with the main altar usually at the eastern end.
4. The direction followed in the course of a trend, movement, or development.
5. A tendency of thought; a general inclination: a Marxist orientation.
6. Sexual orientation.
7.
a. An adjustment or adaptation to a new environment, situation, custom, or set of ideas.
b. Introductory instruction concerning a new situation: orientation for incoming students.
8. Psychology Awareness of the objective world in relation to one's self.

Now we know why the elemntary schools are the battle ground for morality versus indoctrination.

[melikio]

The pathetic attempt to label my position as bigoted when every form of physical science supports it is laughable at best.

It seems to me you have little that is "true" to say to anyone.

I think your agenda is rotting at its core.

Nevertheless, as I said before, So Be It.

-Mel-

[1John2_26]

Quote:
The pathetic attempt to label my position as bigoted when every form of physical science supports it is laughable at best.

It seems to me you have little that is "true" to say to anyone.

I think your agenda is rotting at its core.

Nevertheless, as I said before, So Be It.

Here is a glimpse of a movement like the ones underway in Massachusetts and California, that is rotten at its core:

Although most homosexual activists publicly deny that they want access to boys , many homosexual groups around the world are working aggressively to lower the age of sexual consent. Their
cause is being aided by the pro fessional psychiatric and psychological associations , which have moved
in recent years toward normalizing pedophilia, much as they did with homosexuality in the early 1970s.

Kevin Bishop, an admitted pederast (pedophile), is promoting the work of the North A m e ri c a n
M a n - B oy Love A s s o c i ation (NAMBLA) in South Africa. Bishop, who was molested at the age of six, is
also an admitted homosexual who is blunt about the relationship between homosexuality and pedophilia.

" Scratch the average homosexual and you will find a pedophile," said Bishop in an interview with
the Electronic Mail & Guardian ( June 30, 1 9 9 7 ) .1
This pedophile/homosexual activist began studying pedophilia while a student at Rhodes
U n ive rs i t y. He also discovered Karl Marx there, as well as other literature that helped fo rm his worldview. His views are being echoed around the world by homosexual activists who are seeking what they
call " s exual freedom " for children .
Bishop is on a crusade in South Africa to have " age of sexual consent law s " abolished, and he is looking for help from NAMBLA to accomplish his goal. He says children must be empowered " by teaching them about loving relationships at an early age, and giving them the opportunity to make an informed decision about having [sex ] ."

He also approves of incest, noting, " Two women psychologists
in America say the healthiest introduction to sex for a child should be with their parents , because it is less threatening and the emotional intimacy more comfortable."2

Bishop agrees with NAMBLA that the next social movement in Western politics will be an attack on " sexual ageism ," which prohibits sexual contact based on age differences. The movement already is well under way in Europe and Canada.

[1John2_26]

And of course the list is long and well within the scope to "test all things."

Download and distribute these reports to your state and federal legislators, community leaders, pastors, and associates:

Exposed: Homosexual Child Molesters
http://traditionalvalues.org/urban/one.php

Exposed: Homosexual Urban Legend: NAMBLA And Homosexual Activism
http://traditionalvalues.org/urban/nine.php

Homosexuality and Child Sexual Abuse
http://traditionalvalues.org/urban/one-a.php

Child Molestation And The Homosexual Movement
http://www.regent.edu/acad/schlaw/lawre ... aldwin.PDF

Homosexuals Recruit Public School Children
http://www.traditionalvalues.org/pdf_fi ... ildren.PDF

Pedophiles/Sex Torturers Seek Normalization
http://traditionalvalues.org/pdf_files/ ... exuals.pdf

Exposed: The Next Phase Of The Homosexual Movement
http://www.traditionalvalues.org/pdf_fi ... licSex.pdf

Sympathy For Child Sex Predators
http://www.traditionalvalues.org/pdf_fi ... _zones.pdf

Homosexuality And Pedophilia
http://us2000.org/cfmc/Pedophilia.pdf

Pedophilia Chic
http://www.weeklystandard.com/content/p ... 3rtjrn.asp

Pedophilia Chic Part 2
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/P ... 4juixf.asp

Pedophilia Chic Reconsidered
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/P ... 9pdstm.asp

Pedophilia Chic Reconsidered Part 2
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/P ... 0nanxg.asp

Homosexual Propagandists
Use Schools And Libraries To Normalize Homosexual Behaviors.

Homosexual publishing companies are churning out dozens of books targeted to kindergarteners, pre-teens, and teenagers to normalize homosexual behavior and to push for homosexual marriage and adoption.

Many of these books are designed to stigmatize opponents of homosexual behavior as bigoted and hateful and inaccurately portray "happy" homosexual families consisting of two men or two women and their children. All children in homosexual families come from broken homes or were conceived by artificial insemination. A homosexual household is by definition, abnormal, and children are at greater risk for molestation in these homes than in homes with a mother and father who care for their own biological children.

One of the most popular books distributed by homosexual activists to preteen and teenagers is Two Teenagers In Twenty, (formerly called One In Ten, and published by Alyson Publishers, Boston). It describes the sexual experiences of teenagers who engage in homosexual behaviors. One chapter of the book details the seduction of a teenage girl by her dance instructor on a field trip out of town.

Alyson Publishers is also the publisher of the out-of-print book, The Age TabooGay Male Power, Sexuality, Power, and Consent, which includes essays on having sex with children and teenagers. One essay is written by North American Man-Boy Love Association founder David Thorstad!

The books listed below are from "twolives.com," a homosexual publishing company.

[melikio]

1John, why should any reasonable person "trust" you and your "sources"?

You are missing the point as usual, and I think peole should pay far less attention to you than you'll ever accept. Your distorted and extreme view of all this is what it is period.

BTW, homosexuals are not pedophiles, anymore than heterosexuals are. Most reputable studies show this readily. Yet you find the most extreme right-wing propaganda to say otherwise (I doubt anyone is shocked by that). You can't be trusted, and I hope people realize it, as they "test all things".

And no, I'm not going to necessarily dig up a list of links to counter/refute the list of conservative references you have provided (I might though), but people need to be certain that the things those are saying "conservative" corners, are NOT the only things which they really SHOULD be paying attention to; most reasonably astute and thinking people realize that "homosexual" is NOT synonymous with "pedophile"; they are different by definition. And any thinking homosexual person realizes your tactic is merely a means to incite the kind of negative group-mentality which is intended to promote the oppression of homosexuals overall.

If someone is willing to challenge you link-for-link, study-for study, that may suit you. But I'm not going to entertain that for you, especially since the thread already does the same. And I'll even go so far as to say that EVERYONE should test ALL THINGS which 1John (the forum participant) says.

I think it bears repeating that pedophilia and homosexuality are NOT so associated as your referenced studies suggest; it's one of the biggest and most sophisitcated lies ever perpetrated by extreme-right thinkers. Still, I invite anyone to do their own research; but don't necessarily bother to post any/every link they can find to this thread. Most people already know better than what the conservative-clones are saying between one another, so I'm hardly worried about the warped references you've provided.

Bottom line, you only THINK you know what you are talking about; and your ploy to basically "criminalize" homosexuality through misrepresentation, isn't a new idea; and for sure, it is EXACTLY one good reason why political activism which advocates to protect the rights of homosexual people (in general) is as important as anything you have submitted otherwise.

(BTW, did I mention that I don't think you can be trusted?)


-Mel-

[melikio]

Note that pedophilia is characterized by mental illness, while no mention of psychological disturbance is made in the dictionary definition of the homosexual. As noted above, the vast majority of pedophiles who molest children of the same sex are either actively involved in adult heterosexual relationships, or are incapable of adult sexual relationships of any sort. This is not to say that there are no pedophiles who are homosexual. However, to make the blanket statement that all homosexuals have a propensity towards pedophilia is false, misleading, and damaging to the gay community. The fact that homosexuality has nothing whatsoever to do with pedophilia was also recognized in the U.S. Federal Court system. In the United States Court of Appeals, Sixth Circuit, in the case of Equality Foundation of Greater Cincinnati, Inc. vs. City of Cincinnati, a bench trial was held where the judge made the following findings:

• Sexual orientation is a characteristic which exists separately and independently from sexual conduct or behavior.
  Sexual orientation bears no relation to an individual's ability to perform, contribute to, or participate in, society.
  There is no correlation between homosexuality and pedophilia. Homosexuality is not indicative of a tendency towards child molestation.
  Homosexuality is not a mental illness.

It is our hope that those reading this essay will develop a better understanding of the fact that most gay men and lesbians are fully capable of long-term same-sex loving relationships, and are not the sexual predators we have been mistakenly pictured as for so long.

The issue of pedophiles living within, and being protected by, the Jehovah's Witness religion has now gained international media coverage. Programs such as NBC's Dateline and BBC's Panorama have broadcast well-researched and accurate exposs on this topic. "A Common Bond" fully endorses and supports the "Silentlambs" organization for abused current and former Jehovah's Witnesses, and encourages anyone who has been the victim of molestation to visit their web site at: http://www.silentlambs.org/ for support, encouragement, and assistance. If a civil suit is being considered, note that many U.S. states have statutes of limitations on such cases. The law firm of Love & Norris is representing victims of sexual abuse in Jehovahs Witnesses congregations, with expectations of forcing change in the Watchtower Societys sexual abuse policy. (The link to this firm is provided for informational purposes only.) Certainly, we would strongly encourage abuse victims to contact local law enforcement authorities and report any such activity.

http://www.gayxjw.org/ped.html
http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/ ... ekey=51182

-Mel-

[melikio]

http://www.apa.org/topics/orientation.html

http://www.ipce.info/library_3/files/ap ... _jun03.htm

In recent years, antigay activists have routinely asserted that gay people are child molesters. This argument was often made in debates about the Boy Scouts of America's policy to exclude gay scouts and scoutmasters. It has also been raised in connection with recent scandals about the Catholic church's attempts to cover up the abuse of young males by priests. Indeed, the Vatican's early response to the 2002 revelations of widespread Church cover-ups of sexual abuse by priests was to declare that gay men should not be ordained.

http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/h ... ation.html

And the point is this, 1John: You (and others who think the way you do) often CHOOSE to erroneously associate "homosexuality" (not considered a mental disorder or crime) with what amounts to a dire criminal act; I don't need to understand or know your "reasons", to be fully aware that it's part of some "agenda" (a sinister one) to spread lies about homosexual people. Incredibly, you either desire that such cannot or should not be challenged; it just seems neurotic to me period.

No matter what you believe about homosexuality, it's certainly not criminal by definition (and shouldn't be).

-Mel-

[melikio]

I think some people won't be happy unless all homosexuals are either eliminated or controlled. And the only way to mitigate that, is to remind people constantly of what happens when the opposition to homosexuality is allowed to become extreme.

It is very easy for people to recite a mantra which claims or promises justice, compassion and love, but another thing completely to actually instill a significant modicum of those things into a society.

And since human beings can war/fight over nearly anything, there has to be compromise and reason, in order for there to be peace. Be certain that there is no way that homosexual people or those who support them, will allow certain facist-like elements to chase homosexual people down in the streets (like they are the Frankenstein Monster, or violent criminals escaped from a local prison); it likely won't happen.

Homosexual people can only be scapegoated unfairly for so long, before society sees some real problems and deals with them directly; too much focus upon the goal of negatively affecting gay people, has distorted the view of many. Some don't realize, understand or accept that they aren't going to fix or eliminate homosexuality; and they certainly aren't going to control it (as it once was) by pushing it into the shadows (as if there is no such thing). There really is no need to do that, and it doesn't actually help individuals or society overall. I know some people really don't want to deal with it; ultimately they have little choice in the matter. Homosexuals aren't exactly "rare".

Even so, there is are points where mistreatment or and hatred toward homosexuals is indeed being left unchecked. And the link I provided below, shows well enough, what happens in a society which is so OBSESSED with puting homosexuals DOWN, that it leads to the worst forms of behavior or injustice. And no matter where one is coming from on the matter (concerning homosexuality overall), I think the transcript which I've linked to below, is worth considering.

There are many ways in which anyone can become a part of the problems which plague mankind. Perhaps some can learn something from real-world situations such as this:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline ... cript.html

-Mel-