Dad, mom ...I'm ...um, I'm gay

[KCKID]

The title/subtitle says it all. This scenario must have occurred many, many times. We've all heard, read or seen instances of this and the types of responses that parents of their gay children have given. While we only seem to have a handful of vocal anti-gay Christians on this forum, I'm genuinely curious as to how they would react if their son or daughter came to them and told them that they're gay. Others, feel free to offer your input.

The question again: How would you (a Christian) respond to your son or your daughter coming out to you that they are gay? Without revealing any more than you need to, has this actually happened to any of you ...either as a gay son/daughter or as a parent?

[dianaiad]

(sigh) I don't know if you have a short memory or if you just deliberately like to misrepresent what I say.

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[connermt]

[Replying to post 1 by KCKID]

Let me give you a concrete example. Good friends of ours, church-going Christians, faced the dilemma of a seventeen year old daughter telling them that she'd had a one-night-stand and was now pregnant. Being die-hard believers they immediately arranged an abortion. My point is this...until you are faced with a real situation you just don't know what you'll do. As far as the gay issue you may sweat a little bit over the religious angle but in the end you'll do what's right which means you'll advise him to..."keep your mouth shut and don't do it in the street 'cause you're liable to spook the horses."

Is it only me, or does the bolded section above seem very hypocritical...?
Isn't that one wrong trying to correct another wrong?

[Danmark]

[Replying to post 1 by KCKID]

Let me give you a concrete example. Good friends of ours, church-going Christians, faced the dilemma of a seventeen year old daughter telling them that she'd had a one-night-stand and was now pregnant. Being die-hard believers they immediately arranged an abortion. My point is this...until you are faced with a real situation you just don't know what you'll do. As far as the gay issue you may sweat a little bit over the religious angle but in the end you'll do what's right which means you'll advise him to..."keep your mouth shut and don't do it in the street 'cause you're liable to spook the horses."

Is it only me, or does the bolded section above seem very hypocritical...?
Isn't that one wrong trying to correct another wrong?

Isn't that the very point of the story? . . . that sometimes these extreme religious beliefs ARE held by folks who, perhaps without their knowledge initially, turn out to be hypocrites when faced with the true consequences of their beliefs.

[99percentatheism]

[Replying to post 1 by KCKID]

Let me give you a concrete example. Good friends of ours, church-going Christians, faced the dilemma of a seventeen year old daughter telling them that she'd had a one-night-stand and was now pregnant. Being die-hard believers they immediately arranged an abortion. My point is this...until you are faced with a real situation you just don't know what you'll do. As far as the gay issue you may sweat a little bit over the religious angle but in the end you'll do what's right which means you'll advise him to..."keep your mouth shut and don't do it in the street 'cause you're liable to spook the horses."

Is it only me, or does the bolded section above seem very hypocritical...?
Isn't that one wrong trying to correct another wrong?

Isn't that the very point of the story? . . . that sometimes these extreme religious beliefs ARE held by folks who, perhaps without their knowledge initially, turn out to be hypocrites when faced with the true consequences of their beliefs.

How do you verify a tall tale told on an internet debate forum?

I knwo literally dozens and dozens of Evengelical Christians that have unmarried daughters and sons that have had the same experience and the babies are all still alive.

So, care to get a scale for your justice?

[connermt]

[Replying to post 1 by KCKID]

Let me give you a concrete example. Good friends of ours, church-going Christians, faced the dilemma of a seventeen year old daughter telling them that she'd had a one-night-stand and was now pregnant. Being die-hard believers they immediately arranged an abortion. My point is this...until you are faced with a real situation you just don't know what you'll do. As far as the gay issue you may sweat a little bit over the religious angle but in the end you'll do what's right which means you'll advise him to..."keep your mouth shut and don't do it in the street 'cause you're liable to spook the horses."

Is it only me, or does the bolded section above seem very hypocritical...?
Isn't that one wrong trying to correct another wrong?

Isn't that the very point of the story? . . . that sometimes these extreme religious beliefs ARE held by folks who, perhaps without their knowledge initially, turn out to be hypocrites when faced with the true consequences of their beliefs.

Perhaps, but I find it hard to believe that, in this case, their choice was "without knowledge"...

[Danmark]

[Replying to post 1 by KCKID]

Let me give you a concrete example. Good friends of ours, church-going Christians, faced the dilemma of a seventeen year old daughter telling them that she'd had a one-night-stand and was now pregnant. Being die-hard believers they immediately arranged an abortion. My point is this...until you are faced with a real situation you just don't know what you'll do. As far as the gay issue you may sweat a little bit over the religious angle but in the end you'll do what's right which means you'll advise him to..."keep your mouth shut and don't do it in the street 'cause you're liable to spook the horses."

Is it only me, or does the bolded section above seem very hypocritical...?
Isn't that one wrong trying to correct another wrong?

Isn't that the very point of the story? . . . that sometimes these extreme religious beliefs ARE held by folks who, perhaps without their knowledge initially, turn out to be hypocrites when faced with the true consequences of their beliefs.

How do you verify a tall tale told on an internet debate forum?

I knwo literally dozens and dozens of Evengelical Christians that have unmarried daughters and sons that have had the same experience and the babies are all still alive.

So, care to get a scale for your justice?

Your 'scale of justice' remark is a non sequitur, as is your claim that I or anyone here believes everything on the internet is true.
I think you've focused your attention at the wrong place, as if I'd said that only Christians are hypocrites.
Are you seriously claiming that the only people or families that have abortions are non Christians, or are Christians who don't believe abortion is wrong?

BTW, do think it odd that you know "literally dozens and dozens" of Evangelical Christians who, presumably don't believe in premarital sex, yet engage in it so frequently that you know "dozens and dozens" of them?

In your zeal to show Evangelical Christians are not hypocrites, you have proved that "dozens and dozens" of them are just that, hypocrites.

[Danmark]

[Replying to post 1 by KCKID]

Let me give you a concrete example. Good friends of ours, church-going Christians, faced the dilemma of a seventeen year old daughter telling them that she'd had a one-night-stand and was now pregnant. Being die-hard believers they immediately arranged an abortion. My point is this...until you are faced with a real situation you just don't know what you'll do. As far as the gay issue you may sweat a little bit over the religious angle but in the end you'll do what's right which means you'll advise him to..."keep your mouth shut and don't do it in the street 'cause you're liable to spook the horses."

Is it only me, or does the bolded section above seem very hypocritical...?
Isn't that one wrong trying to correct another wrong?

Isn't that the very point of the story? . . . that sometimes these extreme religious beliefs ARE held by folks who, perhaps without their knowledge initially, turn out to be hypocrites when faced with the true consequences of their beliefs.

Perhaps, but I find it hard to believe that, in this case, their choice was "without knowledge"...

You know me, always willing to give others the benefit of the doubt.


To be more clear, what I meant was that when they had their beliefs against abortion, they might not have realized their beliefs were insincere, or not strongly held. After they have had or encouraged the abortion, if they continue to preach against abortions, THAT is undeniable hypocrisy.

[99percentatheism]

KCKID


Well, that pretty well does it for me.

Really?

Anyone who is incapable of debating scripture based on Bible exegesis but instead prefers to bury their head in the sand for no other reason than to spout condemnation on someone else is not worth my time.

KID, haven't you many times rejected and refused to debate scriptures with me and have rejected the very "exegesis" I present? I wouldn't be too judgemental if I were you.

Let me show you why with some scripture. Scripture that is almost always edited to avoid the obvious exegesis:

Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

- Matthew 7

As for whether or not I think God likes two men having sex ...the question is moot.

Mute is a more applicable word. Jesus was an Orthodox Jew. So, to Jesus, men having sex with each other is abomination. Do you need the exegesis to prove that? Well, let's provide it just in case. And I'll use the Septuagint:

And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 2 Speak to the children of Israel, and thou shalt say to them, I am the Lord your God. 3 Ye shall not do according to the devices of Egypt, in which ye dwelt: and according to the devices of the land of Chanaan, into which I bring you, ye shall not do; and ye shall not walk in their ordinances. 4 Ye shall observe my judgments, and shall keep my ordinances, and shall walk in them: I am the Lord your God. 5 So ye shall keep all my ordinances, and all my judgments, and do them; which if a man do, he shall live in them: I am the Lord your God. 6 No man shall draw nigh to any of his near kindred to uncover their nakedness; I am the Lord. 7 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy father, or the nakedness of thy mother, for she is thy mother; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness. 8 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy fathers wife; it is thy fathers nakedness. 9 The nakedness of thy sister by thy father or by thy mother, born at home or abroad, their nakedness thou shalt not uncover. 10 The nakedness of thy sons daughter, or thy daughters daughter, their nakedness thou shalt not uncover; because it is thy nakedness. 11 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of the daughter of thy fathers wife; she is thy sister by the same father: thou shalt not uncover her nakedness. 12 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy fathers sister, for she is near akin to thy father. 13 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy mothers sister, for she is near akin to thy mother. 14 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy fathers brother, and thou shalt not go in to his wife; for she is thy relation. 15 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy daughter-in-law, for she is thy sons wife, thou shalt not uncover her nakedness. 16 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy brothers wife: it is thy brothers nakedness. 17 The nakedness of a woman and her daughter shalt thou not uncover; her sons daughter, and her daughters daughter, shalt thou not take, to uncover their nakedness, for they are thy kinswomen: it is impiety. 18 Thou shalt not take a wife in addition to her sister, as a rival, to uncover her nakedness in opposition to her, while she is yet living.


And thou shalt not go in to a woman under separation for her uncleanness, to uncover her nakedness. 20 And thou shalt not lie with thy neighbours wife, to defile thyself with her. 21 And thou shalt not give of thy seed to serve a ruler; and thou shalt not profane my holy name; I am the Lord. 22 And thou shalt not lie with a man as with a woman, for it is an abomination. 23 Neither shalt thou lie with any quadruped for copulation, to be polluted with it: neither shall a woman present herself before any quadruped to have connexion with it; for it is an abomination. 24 Do not defile yourselves with any of these things; for in all these things the nations are defiled, which I drive out before you, 25 and the land is polluted; and I have recompensed their iniquity to them because of it, and the land is aggrieved with them that dwell upon it. 26 And ye shall keep all my statutes and all my ordinances, and ye shall do none of these abominations; neither the native, nor the stranger that joins himself with you:

27 (for all these abominations the men of the land did who were before you, and the land was defiled,) 28 and lest the land be aggrieved with you in your polluting it, as it was aggrieved with the nations before you. 29 For whosoever shall do any of these abominations, the souls that do them shall be destroyed from among their people. 30 And ye shall keep mine ordinances, that ye may not do any of the abominable practices, which have taken place before your time: and ye shall not be polluted in them; for I am the Lord your God.

I don't know and neither do you.

Then read Leviticus "in context." Employ exegesis.


Exegesis:

ex-e-ge-sis
/eksij"sis/
noun
noun: exegesis; plural noun: exegeses1. critical explanation or interpretation of a text, esp. of scripture.
"the task of biblical exegesis"
synonyms: interpretation, explanation, exposition, explication

What IS a divorce? And WHAT does it destroy?

di-vorce (d-vrs, -vrs)
n.
1. The legal dissolution of a marriage.2. A complete or radical severance of closely connected things.
v. di-vorced, di-vorc-ing, di-vorc-es
v.tr.
1. To dissolve the marriage bond between.
2. To end marriage with (one's spouse) by way of legal divorce.

And WHAT is a Marriage:

Havent you read, he replied, that at the beginning the Creator made them male and female, and said, For this reason

What "reason?" I repeat. For what reason?

A marriage.

And what IS a marriage using exegesis?

. . a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh? So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.

Now using exegesis KCKID, can you produce one piece of Biblical scripture where a man is not male . . . and a wife is not female?

And for those that may have forgotten:

exegesis (k sdi ss)

n., pl. -ses (-s"z).
critical explanation or interpretation, esp. of Scripture.

Now certainly Mr. KCKID, you do not have to live as God instructed the Israelites to live. Nor do you have to live like Jesus and the Apostles taught Christians to live.

But Christians (or actually the Apostles and Disciples that accompanied him during his divorce debate with the Sanhedrin members) heard and are taught that marriage IS man and woman and that teaching came from Jesus. And, that was reaffirmed at other places in the writings that we now call The New Testament.

If you require further exegesis, I will be more than happy to employ it.

[Goat]

[Replying to post 1 by KCKID]

Let me give you a concrete example. Good friends of ours, church-going Christians, faced the dilemma of a seventeen year old daughter telling them that she'd had a one-night-stand and was now pregnant. Being die-hard believers they immediately arranged an abortion. My point is this...until you are faced with a real situation you just don't know what you'll do. As far as the gay issue you may sweat a little bit over the religious angle but in the end you'll do what's right which means you'll advise him to..."keep your mouth shut and don't do it in the street 'cause you're liable to spook the horses."

Is it only me, or does the bolded section above seem very hypocritical...?
Isn't that one wrong trying to correct another wrong?

Isn't that the very point of the story? . . . that sometimes these extreme religious beliefs ARE held by folks who, perhaps without their knowledge initially, turn out to be hypocrites when faced with the true consequences of their beliefs.

Perhaps, but I find it hard to believe that, in this case, their choice was "without knowledge"...

It was 'without knowledge' of how they would react if they PERSONALLY had to face that choice. Until then, it was what was preached at them and what was expected of them based on their social situation at church.

[99percentatheism]

[Replying to post 1 by KCKID]

Let me give you a concrete example. Good friends of ours, church-going Christians, faced the dilemma of a seventeen year old daughter telling them that she'd had a one-night-stand and was now pregnant. Being die-hard believers they immediately arranged an abortion. My point is this...until you are faced with a real situation you just don't know what you'll do. As far as the gay issue you may sweat a little bit over the religious angle but in the end you'll do what's right which means you'll advise him to..."keep your mouth shut and don't do it in the street 'cause you're liable to spook the horses."

Is it only me, or does the bolded section above seem very hypocritical...?
Isn't that one wrong trying to correct another wrong?

Isn't that the very point of the story? . . . that sometimes these extreme religious beliefs ARE held by folks who, perhaps without their knowledge initially, turn out to be hypocrites when faced with the true consequences of their beliefs.

How do you verify a tall tale told on an internet debate forum?

I knwo literally dozens and dozens of Evengelical Christians that have unmarried daughters and sons that have had the same experience and the babies are all still alive.

So, care to get a scale for your justice?

Your 'scale of justice' remark is a non sequitur, as is your claim that I or anyone here believes everything on the internet is true.

Obviously you proved otherwise.

I think you've focused your attention at the wrong place, as if I'd said that only Christians are hypocrites.

Are you seriously claiming that the only people or families that have abortions are non Christians, or are Christians who don't believe abortion is wrong?

I don't have a good opinion of people that profess to be Christiajn and are pro-choice. I'd excommunicate them from my church if I could.

BTW, do think it odd that you know "literally dozens and dozens" of Evangelical Christians who, presumably don't believe in premarital sex, yet engage in it so frequently that you know "dozens and dozens" of them?

How typical a response. I knew it would come that way.

In your zeal to show Evangelical Christians are not hypocrites, you have proved that "dozens and dozens" of them are just that, hypocrites.

Danmark, how myopic your judgmentalism of me. Look at what I wriote and understand context:

"I know literally dozens and dozens of Evengelical Christians that have unmarried daughters and sons that have had the same experience and the babies are all still alive."

Notice I did not say what those sons and daughters believed and believed in?

I have been to many, many, many Churches and congregations and have friends in each. See what I was saying????

You're not bearing false witness towards me are you?

What I showed is that the Evangelical Christians I know have children that do not kill their unborn children for their own betterment and convenience.

No judgementalism was applied. (Until now of course.)

Nice talking with you.

Oh by the way, these Evangelicals were hypocrites?? Not according to Jesus.

watch:

Then some children were brought to Him (Jesus) so that He might lay His hands on them and pray; and the disciples rebuked them. But Jesus said, Let the children alone, and do not hinder them from coming to Me; for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these. After laying His hands on them, He departed from there.

- Matthew 19

Evangel means "the Gospel."