Dad, mom ...I'm ...um, I'm gay

[KCKID]

The title/subtitle says it all. This scenario must have occurred many, many times. We've all heard, read or seen instances of this and the types of responses that parents of their gay children have given. While we only seem to have a handful of vocal anti-gay Christians on this forum, I'm genuinely curious as to how they would react if their son or daughter came to them and told them that they're gay. Others, feel free to offer your input.

The question again: How would you (a Christian) respond to your son or your daughter coming out to you that they are gay? Without revealing any more than you need to, has this actually happened to any of you ...either as a gay son/daughter or as a parent?

[bluethread]

I find that celibate people do not generally volunteer that they are heterosexual. They generally say that they are celibate.

Regarding the definition, it was not may intent to imply that one must do both, but that the activity is also connected to a public confession. Clownboat seems to want to presume that when one confesses to being homosexual, they are never indicating an intended behavior. The definition of homosexuality shows that intended behavior is a possibility and therefore is not an uncommon implication and/or inference. That is why I presented the two options, the one with the desire but not the intent and the other with the desire and the intent.

My concern in why homosexuals are treated differently than heterosexuals, either in terms of law, prejudice, denial of rights, OR conceptually.

Why is a homosexual's statement of gender preference called a 'confession?' Would a heterosexual's statement of gender preference be called a 'confession?'[/quote]

Sorry, I was using the word confess in the non-accusatory sense. I probably should have used the term profess. However, the question was framed in the manner of an apprehensive proclamation. If one were apprehensive about professing their faith, I would also say that they were confessing. It is in the attitude of the speaker, not the nature of the act. If the thread was, "Dad, mom, I am homosexual and proud of it.", I would call that a profession.

[dianaiad]

So, in your worldview, the salient definition of the Gay Lifestyle is that they are promiscuous?? How convenient. Gee, if I wanted to sit in judgement of homosexuals, I couldn't think of a more Archie Bunkeresque approach....

Pretty much, yes...and calling it 'Archie Bunkeresque' doesn't make it less true. What WOULD you call a 'homosexual lifestyle,' if it isn't about actively engaging in homosexual sex?

Actively engaging sex is precisely what both hetero- AND homosexual couples do. You have added randomly, and without a shred of support, the pejorative that homosexuals are promiscuous. Provide some evidence of this ignorant, hateful claim or retract it.

No, actually, I did not. Please read what I actually wrote: that the 'gay lifestyle' is about actively engaging in homosexual sex, because that's the only aspect of a lifestyle lived by gays that is exclusively gay. I did NOT say that 'all gays are promiscuous.' In fact, I challenge you to show me anywhere in any of my posts that has those words, "all gays are promiscuous,' or even 'gays are promiscuous' in a way that can be interpreted only as a claim that 'all' gays are.

Some gays are promiscuous. Some heterosexuals are promiscuous. I have never claimed that all are, nor have I ever so much as hinted that all are. At the best, your accusation is a 'have you stopped beating your wife?" sort of thing; at worst, it is a deliberate misrepresentation of what I wrote to avoid dealing with what I actually DID write.

[Strider324]

So, in your worldview, the salient definition of the Gay Lifestyle is that they are promiscuous?? How convenient. Gee, if I wanted to sit in judgement of homosexuals, I couldn't think of a more Archie Bunkeresque approach....

Pretty much, yes...and calling it 'Archie Bunkeresque' doesn't make it less true. What WOULD you call a 'homosexual lifestyle,' if it isn't about actively engaging in homosexual sex?

Actively engaging sex is precisely what both hetero- AND homosexual couples do. You have added randomly, and without a shred of support, the pejorative that homosexuals are promiscuous. Provide some evidence of this ignorant, hateful claim or retract it.

No, actually, I did not. Please read what I actually wrote: that the 'gay lifestyle' is about actively engaging in homosexual sex, because that's the only aspect of a lifestyle lived by gays that is exclusively gay. I did NOT say that 'all gays are promiscuous.' In fact, I challenge you to show me anywhere in any of my posts that has those words, "all gays are promiscuous,' or even 'gays are promiscuous' in a way that can be interpreted only as a claim that 'all' gays are.

Some gays are promiscuous. Some heterosexuals are promiscuous. I have never claimed that all are, nor have I ever so much as hinted that all are. At the best, your accusation is a 'have you stopped beating your wife?" sort of thing; at worst, it is a deliberate misrepresentation of what I wrote to avoid dealing with what I actually DID write.

This is what you actually DID write:

A preference for one's own sex doesn't equal 'obligation to be promiscuous,' or even 'permission to be promiscuous,' any more than being heterosexual does. So, if my child came to me and said 'I'm going to live the gay lifestyle,' she would be saying something quite different from "Dad, mom ...I'm, ...um, I'm gay"

I see no other logical way of parsing that other than you saying "My child telling me he's Gay is different from him telling me he's living the 'Gay Lifestyle'" - and that your concern hinges on what you call the 'permission to be promiscuous'. Otherwise, what reason would there be for you to distinguish between 'Being Gay' and 'Living the Gay Lifestyle'. At best your statement is muddled, which is what allows for my interpretation.

[bluethread]

I see no other logical way of parsing that other than you saying "My child telling me he's Gay is different from him telling me he's living the 'Gay Lifestyle'" - and that your concern hinges on what you call the 'permission to be promiscuous'. Otherwise, what reason would there be for you to distinguish between 'Being Gay' and 'Living the Gay Lifestyle'. At best your statement is muddled, which is what allows for my interpretation.

That is interesting, clownboat is insisting that we divide the two in support of homosexuality. It appears that whether or not being homosexual and homosexual activity are two different things is not as well defined as some would have it be.

[Clownboat]

I see no other logical way of parsing that other than you saying "My child telling me he's Gay is different from him telling me he's living the 'Gay Lifestyle'" - and that your concern hinges on what you call the 'permission to be promiscuous'. Otherwise, what reason would there be for you to distinguish between 'Being Gay' and 'Living the Gay Lifestyle'. At best your statement is muddled, which is what allows for my interpretation.

That is interesting, clownboat is insisting that we divide the two in support of homosexuality. It appears that whether or not being homosexual and homosexual activity are two different things is not as well defined as some would have it be.

I have been heterosexual all my life. This includes before I had sex.
Please explain what part of this you have issue with.

I said:

Homosexuality is being attracted to the same sex. It is not:
- Eating raw bloody pig guts.
- It is not ANYTHING like murder. Not even "not exactly" like murder. "Nothing" like murder.
- It is not the freedom to do "whatever you want".

Your reply:

No, homosexuality includes both the desire to have sex with someone of the same sex and acting on that desire.

When you said "No", I cannot help but take that as you being in disagreement. You even bolded the "and" which referred to acting on that desire.

When will you stop speaking on my behalf?
I feel like you are dragging me down to your level in hopes to beat me with experience.

[orthodox skeptic]

[Replying to post 1 by KCKID]

I'd like to address your disappointment over the lack of anti-gay Christians in this forum. To begin, I'm a skeptic but you did invite others so here I am. To begin I believe there is a problem with semantics. the antecedent "anti" denotes opposition to. So, someone who is anti-gay would be opposed to gays. In our enlightened society we have pretty much come to accept Homosexuality as a biological accident of birth. As an example, if you saw a person born with an unattractive birth-mark you'd not say you were 'anti-birthmark. You might say you were uncomfortable looking at it just as I say that gay men 'getting it on' repulses me but that's not being anti-gay. Like my Uncle Mike says,'I don't care what they do as long as they don't do it in the street and scare the horses.' As far as your kid breaking the news, there's not a helluva lot you could say outside of 'Oh boy!'

[dianaiad]

So, in your worldview, the salient definition of the Gay Lifestyle is that they are promiscuous?? How convenient. Gee, if I wanted to sit in judgement of homosexuals, I couldn't think of a more Archie Bunkeresque approach....

Pretty much, yes...and calling it 'Archie Bunkeresque' doesn't make it less true. What WOULD you call a 'homosexual lifestyle,' if it isn't about actively engaging in homosexual sex?

Actively engaging sex is precisely what both hetero- AND homosexual couples do. You have added randomly, and without a shred of support, the pejorative that homosexuals are promiscuous. Provide some evidence of this ignorant, hateful claim or retract it.

No, actually, I did not. Please read what I actually wrote: that the 'gay lifestyle' is about actively engaging in homosexual sex, because that's the only aspect of a lifestyle lived by gays that is exclusively gay. I did NOT say that 'all gays are promiscuous.' In fact, I challenge you to show me anywhere in any of my posts that has those words, "all gays are promiscuous,' or even 'gays are promiscuous' in a way that can be interpreted only as a claim that 'all' gays are.

Some gays are promiscuous. Some heterosexuals are promiscuous. I have never claimed that all are, nor have I ever so much as hinted that all are. At the best, your accusation is a 'have you stopped beating your wife?" sort of thing; at worst, it is a deliberate misrepresentation of what I wrote to avoid dealing with what I actually DID write.

This is what you actually DID write:

A preference for one's own sex doesn't equal 'obligation to be promiscuous,' or even 'permission to be promiscuous,' any more than being heterosexual does. So, if my child came to me and said 'I'm going to live the gay lifestyle,' she would be saying something quite different from "Dad, mom ...I'm, ...um, I'm gay"

I see no other logical way of parsing that other than you saying "My child telling me he's Gay is different from him telling me he's living the 'Gay Lifestyle'" - and that your concern hinges on what you call the 'permission to be promiscuous'. Otherwise, what reason would there be for you to distinguish between 'Being Gay' and 'Living the Gay Lifestyle'. At best your statement is muddled, which is what allows for my interpretation.

There is nothing 'muddled' about that. Given that the only aspect of the 'gay lifestyle' that would make it exclusively 'gay' would be sex, and since a committed relationship between two people is pretty much the same between gays as it is straights, then a 'gay lifestyle' means...promiscuity. I would say the same if someone were living a 'straight lifestyle,' only there are other names for that sort of thing, and other things one calls heterosexuals who concentrate on 'being heterosexual' to the exclusion of everything else in their lives. I understand that gays use some of those same words in similar situations.

No, there is no reasonable way you could interpret me as accusing all gays of being promiscuous...and certainly the quote you just used is evidence against your statement/interpretation. After all, if I thought that 'all gays were promiscuous,' I would certainly not write that being gay "doesn't equal permission to be promiscuous," much less 'obligation to be promiscuous.' There is absolutely nothing 'muddled' about that. Would asking you for an apology be a waste of typing time?

[Goat]

So, in your worldview, the salient definition of the Gay Lifestyle is that they are promiscuous?? How convenient. Gee, if I wanted to sit in judgement of homosexuals, I couldn't think of a more Archie Bunkeresque approach....

Pretty much, yes...and calling it 'Archie Bunkeresque' doesn't make it less true. What WOULD you call a 'homosexual lifestyle,' if it isn't about actively engaging in homosexual sex?

Actively engaging sex is precisely what both hetero- AND homosexual couples do. You have added randomly, and without a shred of support, the pejorative that homosexuals are promiscuous. Provide some evidence of this ignorant, hateful claim or retract it.

No, actually, I did not. Please read what I actually wrote: that the 'gay lifestyle' is about actively engaging in homosexual sex, because that's the only aspect of a lifestyle lived by gays that is exclusively gay. I did NOT say that 'all gays are promiscuous.' In fact, I challenge you to show me anywhere in any of my posts that has those words, "all gays are promiscuous,' or even 'gays are promiscuous' in a way that can be interpreted only as a claim that 'all' gays are.

Some gays are promiscuous. Some heterosexuals are promiscuous. I have never claimed that all are, nor have I ever so much as hinted that all are. At the best, your accusation is a 'have you stopped beating your wife?" sort of thing; at worst, it is a deliberate misrepresentation of what I wrote to avoid dealing with what I actually DID write.

This is what you actually DID write:

A preference for one's own sex doesn't equal 'obligation to be promiscuous,' or even 'permission to be promiscuous,' any more than being heterosexual does. So, if my child came to me and said 'I'm going to live the gay lifestyle,' she would be saying something quite different from "Dad, mom ...I'm, ...um, I'm gay"

I see no other logical way of parsing that other than you saying "My child telling me he's Gay is different from him telling me he's living the 'Gay Lifestyle'" - and that your concern hinges on what you call the 'permission to be promiscuous'. Otherwise, what reason would there be for you to distinguish between 'Being Gay' and 'Living the Gay Lifestyle'. At best your statement is muddled, which is what allows for my interpretation.

There is nothing 'muddled' about that. Given that the only aspect of the 'gay lifestyle' that would make it exclusively 'gay' would be sex, and since a committed relationship between two people is pretty much the same between gays as it is straights, then a 'gay lifestyle' means...promiscuity. I would say the same if someone were living a 'straight lifestyle,' only there are other names for that sort of thing, and other things one calls heterosexuals who concentrate on 'being heterosexual' to the exclusion of everything else in their lives. I understand that gays use some of those same words in similar situations.

No, there is no reasonable way you could interpret me as accusing all gays of being promiscuous...and certainly the quote you just used is evidence against your statement/interpretation. After all, if I thought that 'all gays were promiscuous,' I would certainly not write that being gay "doesn't equal permission to be promiscuous," much less 'obligation to be promiscuous.' There is absolutely nothing 'muddled' about that. Would asking you for an apology be a waste of typing time?

I find your explination less that satisfactory, because you are playing double standards. After all, if you replace, 'heterosexual' with 'homosexual', you would be ignoring emotional bonding and love between men and woman, yet you assume it. Gays also have emotional bonding and love between them in the exact same manner, and that is actually the more important part of the 'lifestyle'.

[dianaiad]

There is nothing 'muddled' about that. Given that the only aspect of the 'gay lifestyle' that would make it exclusively 'gay' would be sex, and since a committed relationship between two people is pretty much the same between gays as it is straights, then a 'gay lifestyle' means...promiscuity. I would say the same if someone were living a 'straight lifestyle,' only there are other names for that sort of thing, and other things one calls heterosexuals who concentrate on 'being heterosexual' to the exclusion of everything else in their lives. I understand that gays use some of those same words in similar situations.

No, there is no reasonable way you could interpret me as accusing all gays of being promiscuous...and certainly the quote you just used is evidence against your statement/interpretation. After all, if I thought that 'all gays were promiscuous,' I would certainly not write that being gay "doesn't equal permission to be promiscuous," much less 'obligation to be promiscuous.' There is absolutely nothing 'muddled' about that. Would asking you for an apology be a waste of typing time?

I find your explination less that satisfactory, because you are playing double standards. After all, if you replace, 'heterosexual' with 'homosexual', you would be ignoring emotional bonding and love between men and woman, yet you assume it. Gays also have emotional bonding and love between them in the exact same manner, and that is actually the more important part of the 'lifestyle'.

What part of the above bolded and italicized quote 'ignores' emotional bonding and love? If you claim that I 'assume' such between men and women, then this quote means that I must assume the same between gay couples.

Perhaps you find my explanation less than satisfactory because you were too busy practicing eisegesis as opposed to exegesis: reading into my post what you assume I think, rather than actually reading what I wrote?

[Danmark]

There is nothing 'muddled' about that. Given that the only aspect of the 'gay lifestyle' that would make it exclusively 'gay' would be sex, and since a committed relationship between two people is pretty much the same between gays as it is straights, then a 'gay lifestyle' means...promiscuity.

D, that is exactly the impression I got from you the first time, that the "gay lifestyle" = promiscuity. This simply reveals a bias on your part that is not absolved by your further statements that 'Not all gays are promiscuous.'

An old married couple, faithful to each other for 40 years, if gay, are 'living a 'gay lifestyle' but are not promiscuous. Perhaps your bias is simply toward the phrase 'gay lifestyle' and you define it in your own way. But I assure you that by continuing to assert that the 'gay lifestyle' necessarily includes promiscuity, you represent your self as an anti gay bigot, even tho' that may not be your intention, or your belief.

I am simply pointing out that in using the language outlined above you are representing yourself in a way that may place you in a harsh light.

Speaking of promiscuity, anyone want to hazard a guess as to the percentage of heterosexuals over the age of 40 or 50 who have only had 'sex' with one partner?

Sexual studies, particularly in the U. S. notoriously under report extramarital sex.
Here's an interesting quote from Wikipedia:
"Lesbians who had a long-term partner reported having fewer outside partners than heterosexual women."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Promiscuity