Will gays EVER be accepted by mainstream Christianity?

[KCKID]

The Mainstream Christian Church (i.e. the 'Christian Church' in general) appears to have an unshakable belief that gay people cannot possibly be Christians. Therefore gay people will always be regarded as 'lepers' because the mainstream Church believes that homosexuality is against the will of God and the actual practicing of such is a 'grave sin'. This is in spite of the fact that nowhere in the Bible is homosexuality referred to as a grave sin. This more comes from the minds of people who have received a life time of brainwashing into believing this. Where homosexual activity IS mentioned in scripture it almost always - in fact, PROBABLY always - refers to the practice of idolatry and not as WE today refer to homosexuality. There are those Christians who are so appalled at the notion that gay people might desire to integrate with 'actual Christians' within their Church community that they suggest gays start their own denomination ...minus the 'Christian' prefix, of course, which would be sacrilege. Such folks want nothing to do with homosexual people and their minds appear to be set on this.

Below is a recent item from The Guardian that tells of the plight of gay Christians in Uganda. In our particular neck of the woods (probably the majority of those of us who participate on the forum) gays have no fear of state imposed death or life imprisonment as do those in places such as Uganda. Gays do, however, have a stigma placed on them by most Christians that results in rejection by the mainstream Church and, indeed, by God himself. And, of course, the rejection of God is tantamount to death or, worse still, eternal torment. The latter makes the penalty imposed on gays in Uganda pale by comparison.

Will mainstream Christianity ever be accepting of people whose only 'sin' is that they happen to be gay ...i.e. an involuntary sexual attraction between two people of the same gender? If not, why not? Please, give your HONEST reasons.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/f ... ry-kampala

Sunday is a special day in Uganda, the conservative east African country that is threatening to put gay people behind bars for life. On Sunday you can see families flocking to churches all over the country for prayer, wearing their best clothes.

The sermons are predictable. Church leaders will pray for divine intervention against the corrupt leaders, poverty and the potholed roads, and then finally call doom upon the country's homosexuals who are sinning against the Christian God and ruining African culture.

But not at a tiny church tucked away in one of Kampala's suburbs. Here, gay people meet in devoted challenge to mainstream denominations that have declared them outcasts. With dread-locked hair and in jeans and bathroom slippers, members of this congregation would stand out in the prim and proper evangelical church I sometimes go to. I feel overdressed in my white dress.

"Here we are all about freedom," Pepe Onziema, a gay rights activist tells me. "It is a universal church. We welcome people whether gay or straight."

The gates may be open but the road to the church that calls itself a friendship and reconciliation centre is not paved with sleek cars or thronged with believers. The worshippers trickle in. They take their seats, but not before surveying the crowd furtively, trying to identify everyone. Their life depends on this vigilance.

In Uganda, police raid homes and arrest those they suspect to be gay. Homosexuality is an offence under the penal code. The president, Yoweri Museveni, refuses to pass a bill that seeks to strengthen the punishments for homosexuality to include life imprisonment, but isn’t under pressure to do so. Conservative Christian churches, under the auspices of the Uganda Joint Christian Council, refuse to accept homosexuals in spite of more gay-friendly approaches from parent churches abroad. The anti-gay furnace is fanned by American evangelical churches that have made it their mission to free Africa of homosexuality, saying it is alien to African culture.

The gay Ugandan church seeks to spread an alternative gospel of love and acceptance for all. On this particular Sunday, it is the memorial of David Kato, a gay rights activist who was murdered in 2011. So the numbers are bigger than usual. When the church was started by Bishop Christopher Senyonjo (who has since been thrown out of the Anglican Church for ministering to gay people), the gay community in Uganda attended devotedly. But with arrests and growing anti-gay sentiments, threats to their lives and arrests, fewer and fewer people come to the church.

"Our numbers have reduced ever since we started in 2008," Denis, the chaplain and a primary school teacher, tells me. "It is worse now that the bill has been passed." If Denis's employees knew of his orientation or his calling, he would certainly lose his job. "This is the only place we can feel at home. Here we can worship God without feeling guilty or fearing persecution."

Joining a gay congregation in Uganda is risky but Onziema says it is necessary in a society that greatly values community. For on Sundays, when many Ugandans spend time with their families, most gay people have nowhere to go. "Coming here lets us know that we are not alone and gives us the strength to continue the struggle," Onziema says.

You can see both hope and fear in the eyes of the congregation as they read Bible verses proclaiming God's protection over them and sing "What a friend we have in Jesus".

Here, there are no thunderous shouts of praise, speaking in tongues or Bible-thumping that is characteristic of the evangelism that is so trendy in the country. In the quiet worship of Uganda's gay community, there is a still hope and the kind of courage you can only muster after you have seen it all and there is nothing left to fear. Sunday is also the day gay people in Uganda cast off their masks to chat about the latest fashion, cars and celebrities.

"You thought we were going to pray that God stops the anti-homosexuality bill," Mugisha, the head of Sexual Minorities Uganda, asks me with laughter and mischief in his voice. "It will not pass. We do not need to pray for that."

Mugisha is for a moment free from his job, his life, fighting for the basic human rights of gay people. "I come here for the community. It is better than staying home alone," he says. As the service ends, members of the congregation are asked to say something in memory of David Kato, whose spirit of resilience they will need as they walk out of the church into their daily routine.

"We know he did not die in vain," Mugisha says. "One day we shall be accepted."

[Joab]

Why do LGBT's want to force us to celebrate homosexuality?

You keep making this absurd claim. Why don't you try backing it up.

[KCKID]

KCKID

[Replying to post 4 by Jake]

Yep, I think you are spot on. One day they will have to change or be the outcast.

As Jesus predicted, hatred of the Church is seen as something to cheer on by the world.

You're misrepresenting Jesus. Jesus was no friend of the pious hypocrites of His day and MANY in 'the Church' are precisely that and deserve to be called out for it by others ...just as Jesus did.

Jesus? The Jew that REaffirmed that marriage is man and woman?

Actually - in context! - the Jew that said divorce and remarriage is a no-no as per the question asked of Him.

I have no fear of your accusation of my handling the words of Jesus.

I think the entire premise surrounding 'mainstream Christianity' is fear-based. I believe that the Bible scares you to death ...literally.

Yet it appears your's are parroting the Sodom-Mob railing against Lot:

“Get out of our way,� they replied. “This fellow came here as a foreigner, and now he wants to play the judge! We’ll treat you worse than them.� They kept bringing pressure on Lot and moved forward to break down the door.

- Genesis 19

I have no idea what the above has to do with the subject matter.

Anyway, no one has mentioned the word 'hatred' but you. All I asked is will mainstream Christianity ever accept everyone who calls upon the name of Jesus, regardless of their sexual preference.

No, you charged us with being brainwashed.

Of course you're brainwashed as has already been explained to you. You didn't come up with any of this 'Bible stuff' all by yourself.

We are as brainwashed as Jesus, Peter, John, Jude and the historic Christians that followed them.

Well, there ya go. Perhaps the next version of the Bible will include your name.

Obviously, you're saying that[/color] you will never accept those who call upon the name of Jesus, regardless of their sexual preference.

The supporters of homosexuality are railing against The Church. Not I.

I would think that most homosexuals - as with most heterosexuals - don't give a flying fig about 'Your (judgmental) Church'.

To my thinking, this goes against everything that Jesus taught.

Everything? EVERYTHING?????

Yep. One more time for good luck ...everything! Jesus appears to have really disliked the pious religious ones of His day and more gravitated to those that didn't even think to put on airs and graces. He became a friend of the 'unlovely' and an enemy of the self-righteous.

Jesus "taught" that marriage was man and woman/husband and wife.

Do you know what hypocrisy is?

Um, could it be applied, perhaps, to those that rail against gay people but have no qualms with accepting divorcees and re-marrieds into their congregation?

What you tend to do so often here is to instigate animosity within others with a spiteful and confronting attitude.

What????

You just started a thread that labels historic Christians as brainwashed. This is basically a thread based on persecuting us.

'Brainwashing' already addressed.

Then, if others respond similarly you cry out that you're being persecuted and 'hated' ...just as the Bible predicted you would be. You then wear this 'I am a martyr' tag like a badge of honor. What a ploy!

Plloy?

No, not a plloy ...a ploy. Just bein' silly!

Like calling homosexuality a civl rights and social justice issue?

Do you know what propaganda is?

Well, the definition of that word is: information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote a political cause or point of view. Um, isn't that something that "The Church" has done over the years, particularly concerning the present subject matter?

As it is noted above, gay authority comes from the world and it's ways "secularization" and not the Gospel.

"The Gospel" is the first 4 books of the New Testament (in other words, the account of Jesus) which mentions nothing about homosexuality. One more time ...NOTHING!

YUP!

Not one word of "affirmation" of homosexuals or homosexuality. NOT ONE WORD.

Yet he went out of his way to REaffirm what a marriage "IS". He quoted "God."

Well, to be more accurate ...Jesus quoted the Old Testament. He was asked a question about divorce, a matter that involved males and females that marry. Homosexuality and Jesus' views on the subject - either yay or nay - are not relevant to that particular passage of scripture. So, I say, yet again, that Jesus was silent on the topic of homosexuality, i.e. we don't know how Jesus felt about homosexuality and as to whether He would have approved or disapproved of gay marriage. We simply don't know ...clear?

This "ploy" of yours to celebrate gay sex within a Christian context is based on a worldly perspective. Notice how many non and anti Christians are cheering on the Gay Community as it attacks The Chruch?

I don't care to 'celebrate' gay sex any more than I care to 'celebrate' straight sex. Do you conduct a weekly questionnaire at 'Your Church' that asks who fornicated with who last night and celebrate those that give the correct answer? Why is it that heterosexuality and homosexuality is solely a sex issue with you?

By their fruit you will know them. Gay fruit is not causing a worldwide call for The Gospel to be proclaimed. It is calling for the celebration of gay sex.

See, you're quoting from "the book" again in order to give the appearance of relevance, importance and piety. That kind of thing doesn't wash with me and you, of all people, should know that by now.

The hostility of this thread shows the incompatible nature of the gay agenda and Christian life.

While Ooberman is rather vocal with his views on Christianity in general the only hostility pertaining to the actual subject matter is that coming from you.

The anti-Christian legions here are supporting your positions and perspectives.

And, the anti-Christian 'legions', by definition, are evil people ...right? I don't believe that they are. In fact, as someone has already observed on (I think) another thread, many of the anti-Christians are remarkably 'Christ-like' in their particular philosophy.

You may want to do a little self-judging KID. Reality cannot be wiped away easily by propaganda. You cannot and never will be able to produce one piece of New Testament scriprture to support your demands for celebrating gay sex within The Church. You will only win your ways where they have always existed outside of The Church. Notice your support groups?

More of your yada yada, 99percent. Listen, you've been asked this question by myself and others but have so far avoided other than with your typical red herrings ...what is it precisely that gays are required to do in order to meet the criteria of being a recognized 'child of God'? Please, just answer the question in language that we can all understand. Thank you.

[Ooberman]

Why do LGBT's want to force us to celebrate homosexuality?

You keep making this absurd claim. Why don't you try backing it up.

It's very telling this is how their "camp" is dealing with this issue. They keep creating strawmen, and they get more and more absurd as everyone realizes their entire position is based on the homophobia of men in ancient Judea.

They seem think that allowing people a place to live in the world is suddenly "celebrating". As if we will have ticker tape parade's every time gay people have sex.

Christianity makes it's believers so irrational and hateful.

[99percentatheism]

Why do LGBT's want to force us to celebrate homosexuality?

You keep making this absurd claim. Why don't you try backing it up.

Do you take the same position when someone shows you a chicken and says it's a Pit Bull dog?

Lesbian: Same gender sexual behavior between female people.

Gay: Same gender sexual behavior between male people.

Bi-Sexual: Any port in a storm. Sexual behavior with anyone.

Transexual: Whatever . . .

Why in the world do you think the issue of celebrating gay activism is not about the demand to "affirm" homosexual behavior? "gay marriage" is not just about some financial gains between the betrothed. Why do you think an adulterer is always the "sinner" that the LGBT person is compared to in context? KCID is a typical example of the mocking adversary of Christian truth when he says that "adulterers" are allowed in the Church. Yet, there is not one Cheatrers Pride Parade anywahrer. No colored flag calling people to chaet on their spouse. This is not about how homosexuals like Martina Navratilova hits her backhand. It's about a whole different kind of behavior. It's about same gender sexual behavior, and that is not compaitible with Christian life. No matter what the progressive politicans try to implement on society.

[99percentatheism]

Ooberman

Why do LGBT's want to force us to celebrate homosexuality?

You keep making this absurd claim. Why don't you try backing it up.

It's very telling this is how their "camp" is dealing with this issue. They keep creating strawmen, and they get more and more absurd as everyone realizes their entire position is based on the homophobia of men in ancient Judea.

Nero married a man in ancient Judea. Homosexuality was the exact same behavior then as now.

The very propaganda tool known as "homophobia" is a strawman. It was invented for the gay agenda and nothing else. There is nothing irrational about the fear of homosexuality.

They seem think that allowing people a place to live in the world is suddenly "celebrating".

Marriage is a celebration. And you want to talk about creating a strawman, you may want to look at a man being another man's husband OR wife! A woman being another woman's wife, OR husband? That's an invention of the most inappropriate type when forced onto The Church.

As if we will have ticker tape parade's every time gay people have sex.

The hysterical "support" that a homosexual is getting for his "pride" in being a homosexual is not about his desire to make a tackle, it is about "affirming" how he desires to have sex. "Gay Pride parades are not about how people dance at parties. It's about "affirming" a SEXUAL orientation.

Christianity makes it's believers so irrational and hateful.

Another example of a strawman built to persecute the Christian Church worldwide. It is an attack on Christians and The Church universal to demand that not celebrating homosexuality is hate. But alas, Paul and Peter went to their deaths under Roman law.

If anything is a strawman invented, it is declaring repentance and forgiveness a hate crime:

Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed . . .,

- 1 Corinthians 6

[connermt]

Replying to post 54 by 99percentatheism]

This

Bi-Sexual: Any port in a storm. Sexual behavior with anyone. Transexual: Whatever . . .

shows how very little you know about the subject you're discussing.

Why in the world do you think the issue of celebrating gay activism is not about the demand to "affirm" homosexual behavior?

Because for many, that's not what it's about.

"gay marriage" is not just about some financial gains between the betrothed.

Correct. Just like it's not about forcing people to accept it. I imagine there are many things you don't like and don't accept as 'normal' or 'godly' yet that hasn't negatively impacted your ability to worship, no? Adultery? Divorce? Illegal drugs? Child abuse?
Point is, you can 'not accept' something and it have little to no impact on your personal life (past "eww...that's gross") while not hindering the lives of others, which you have no stake in.

Why do you think an adulterer is always the "sinner" that the LGBT person is compared to in context?

Are the 'always' or is that your perception?

KCID is a typical example of the mocking adversary of Christian truth when he says that "adulterers" are allowed in the Church.

Mocking or not, it is the truth.

It's about a whole different kind of behavior.

It is what one makes of it for them. You seem to be making it a lot bigger than it really is. I wonder why?

[Joab]

Ooberman

Why do LGBT's want to force us to celebrate homosexuality?

You keep making this absurd claim. Why don't you try backing it up.

It's very telling this is how their "camp" is dealing with this issue. They keep creating strawmen, and they get more and more absurd as everyone realizes their entire position is based on the homophobia of men in ancient Judea.

Nero married a man in ancient Judea. Homosexuality was the exact same behavior then as now.

The very propaganda tool known as "homophobia" is a strawman. It was invented for the gay agenda and nothing else. There is nothing irrational about the fear of homosexuality.

They seem think that allowing people a place to live in the world is suddenly "celebrating".

Marriage is a celebration. And you want to talk about creating a strawman, you may want to look at a man being another man's husband OR wife! A woman being another woman's wife, OR husband? That's an invention of the most inappropriate type when forced onto The Church.

As if we will have ticker tape parade's every time gay people have sex.

The hysterical "support" that a homosexual is getting for his "pride" in being a homosexual is not about his desire to make a tackle, it is about "affirming" how he desires to have sex. "Gay Pride parades are not about how people dance at parties. It's about "affirming" a SEXUAL orientation.

Christianity makes it's believers so irrational and hateful.

Another example of a strawman built to persecute the Christian Church worldwide. It is an attack on Christians and The Church universal to demand that not celebrating homosexuality is hate. But alas, Paul and Peter went to their deaths under Roman law.

If anything is a strawman invented, it is declaring repentance and forgiveness a hate crime:

Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed . . .,

- 1 Corinthians 6

Now after that irrelevant rant could you actually do this?

You keep making this absurd claim. Why don't you try backing it up.

Your post didn't address this request at all, do try again. Thanks.

[99percentatheism]

KCKID:

KCKID

[Replying to post 4 by Jake]

Yep, I think you are spot on. One day they will have to change or be the outcast.

As Jesus predicted, hatred of the Church is seen as something to cheer on by the world.

You're misrepresenting Jesus. Jesus was no friend of the pious hypocrites of His day and MANY in 'the Church' are precisely that and deserve to be called out for it by others ...just as Jesus did.

Jesus? The Jew that REaffirmed that marriage is man and woman?

Actually - in context! - the Jew that said divorce and remarriage is a no-no as per the question asked of Him.

And told an adulterer that they were not condemned. Told her to "Go, and sin no more." That would folow repentance and forgiveness according to "the Good News" of the Gospel. Which of course means: "Good News."

Repentance starts that good process.

If that "in context" ply is to be implemented, then Jesus also "taught" the Torah that homosexusla were to be stoned. In context that is. And as you and the anti's have pointed out . . . Jesus said a word about homosexuals. It was already written.

I have no fear of your accusation of my handling the words of Jesus.

I think the entire premise surrounding 'mainstream Christianity' is fear-based. I believe that the Bible scares you to death ...literally.

And you are entitled to your opinion no matter how off base it is. I wouldn't expect anything else.

Yet it appears your's are parroting the Sodom-Mob railing against Lot:

“Get out of our way,� they replied. “This fellow came here as a foreigner, and now he wants to play the judge! We’ll treat you worse than them.� They kept bringing pressure on Lot and moved forward to break down the door.

- Genesis 19

I have no idea what the above has to do with the subject matter.

Really? How many Christians have been threatened with being sued and put out of business by boycotts for no reason other than living as Christians have lived since the founding of The Church?

Anyway, no one has mentioned the word 'hatred' but you. All I asked is will mainstream Christianity ever accept everyone who calls upon the name of Jesus, regardless of their sexual preference.

No, you charged us with being brainwashed.

Of course you're brainwashed as has already been explained to you. You didn't come up with any of this 'Bible stuff' all by yourself.

That the Mods here allow this style of persecution in calling belief in Christian truth as brainwashing is quite shocking. But you do seem to get so many passes here.

We are as brainwashed as Jesus, Peter, John, Jude and the historic Christians that followed them.

Well, there ya go. Perhaps the next version of the Bible will include your name.

My name only needs to be written in the Lamb's book of life. Written in the blood of Jesus. But I don't expect you to understand that and I fully realize how those pearls can be treated in a thread like this. We'll probably see the fangs come out quickly to mock that. But the compatibility of Christian life and what the world and its ways does, I won't be surprised trust me.

Obviously, you're saying that[/color] you will never accept those who call upon the name of Jesus, regardless of their sexual preference.

The supporters of homosexuality are railing against The Church. Not I.

I would think that most homosexuals - as with most heterosexuals - don't give a flying fig about 'Your (judgmental) Church'.

Wel, how soon you forgot your own thread.

To my thinking, this goes against everything that Jesus taught.

Everything? EVERYTHING?????

Yep. One more time for good luck ...everything! Jesus appears to have really disliked the pious religious ones of His day and more gravitated to those that didn't even think to put on airs and graces. He became a friend of the 'unlovely' and an enemy of the self-righteous.

It is the progressives that are now using pious religious pronouncements to "affirm" homosexuality. You may want to point your judgmentalism at the right people. Er, I mean the people on the Left. In fact, your thread here is decidely pointing towards using Christian Truth for the gay agenda. That is why you seem driven to get homosexuality celbrated in The Church. It's very telling tat you don't see the MCC and Soulforce as having any authority.

Of course.

Jesus "taught" that marriage was man and woman/husband and wife.

Do you know what hypocrisy is?

Um, could it be applied, perhaps, to those that rail against gay people but have no qualms with accepting divorcees and re-marrieds into their congregation?

Hypocrisy is when you say that you don't care about what people do in the privacy of their own home and then compare adulterers to homosexuals. Adultery is not about dancing with someone that isn't your spouse. It's about sexual behavior. Incompatible behavior with Christian life.

Big fail KID.

Your thread here is pointing twoards an authentic Christian life and the Churches that dwell in the world and its ways. You seem to demand that homosexuals being acceoted by "mainstream Christianity" is the goal for true affirmation. If you weren't, you would create threads about how progressive and liberal theology is right and wher homosexuality finds its validation. You don't. That says it all.

What you tend to do so often here is to instigate animosity within others with a spiteful and confronting attitude.

What????

You just started a thread that labels historic Christians as brainwashed. This is basically a thread based on persecuting us.

'Brainwashing' already addressed.

Persecution pure and simple.

Then, if others respond similarly you cry out that you're being persecuted and 'hated' ...just as the Bible predicted you would be. You then wear this 'I am a martyr' tag like a badge of honor. What a ploy!

Plloy?

No, not a plloy ...a ploy. Just bein' silly!

Highlighting typos is withourt doubt silliness. We are all flying around our keyboards and keys get in the way sometimes.


Still no matter, you can never produce one piece of Christian truth that supports affirming anything LGBT. Nothing.

Like calling homosexuality a civl rights and social justice issue?

Do you know what propaganda is?

Well, the definition of that word is: information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote a political cause or point of view. Um, isn't that something that "The Church" has done over the years, particularly concerning the present subject matter?

That is persecution. The Romans had a similar view of Christian life.

As it is noted above, gay authority comes from the world and it's ways "secularization" and not the Gospel.

"The Gospel" is the first 4 books of the New Testament (in other words, the account of Jesus) which mentions nothing about homosexuality. One more time ...NOTHING!

Not ONE WORD OF SUPPORT or affirmation of homosexuals OR homosexuality. But a consistent stand against both is historical reality. I didn't write the scriptures. I just agree with them and those that penned them for obvious reasons.

YUP!

Not one word of "affirmation" of homosexuals or homosexuality. NOT ONE WORD.

Yet he went out of his way to REaffirm what a marriage "IS". He quoted "God."

Well, to be more accurate ...Jesus quoted the Old Testament. He was asked a question about divorce, a matter that involved males and females that marry.

There is no other kind of marriage. Except in oagan life, there is same gender marriage. As Jesus knew. And yet there is not one word of affirming gay sex or those that engage in it anywhere in the New Testament but a pure condemning of it.

Homosexuality and Jesus' views on the subject - either yay or nay - are not relevant to that particular passage of scripture.

That is a baseless assertion. No where in the entire Bible is there anything even hinting of affirming of gay behavior. Neither ancient or modern propraganda need apply.

So, I say, yet again, that Jesus was silent on the topic of homosexuality, i.e. we don't know how Jesus felt about homosexuality and as to whether He would have approved or disapproved of gay marriage. We simply don't know ...clear?

"Is it not written?"

"Have you not read?"

Jesus and His views og homosexuality is a deafening silence for support of gay anything. LGBT culture has nothing that is compatible with Christian life. That is why the need to devalue scripture and Christian history is so important to certain quarters in this battle.

This "ploy" of yours to celebrate gay sex within a Christian context is based on a worldly perspective. Notice how many non and anti Christians are cheering on the Gay Community as it attacks The Chruch?

I don't care to 'celebrate' gay sex any more than I care to 'celebrate' straight sex.

So what? Your opinions exist simply in your own personal world. And besides, you seem to be inconsistent there. you rail against the acceptance of adulterers, which is decidely acceptaing of their sexual behavior. You naver stop comparing these two worngs making a right. Something I dare say is foreign to the theology of Jesus too. But, the LGBT demands are that we "affirm" their love and sexual behavior. Otherwise secular marriage would completely end the battle being waged against The Church by LGBT forces and their legion of non and anti Christian support groups.

Do you conduct a weekly questionnaire at 'Your Church' that asks who fornicated with who last night and celebrate those that give the correct answer?

Why is it that heterosexuality and homosexuality is solely a sex issue with you?

That would be your views KID. You are the one that constantly wants gay behaior affirmed because adulterers are tolerated at "Mainstream" Christian Churches worldwide. Unless of course you are propping up that those remarried adulterers are only playing cards in the privacy of tgheir own home???

Somehow I think your inconsistency here is massive.

By their fruit you will know them. Gay fruit is not causing a worldwide call for The Gospel to be proclaimed. It is calling for the celebration of gay sex.

See, you're quoting from "the book" again in order to give the appearance of relevance, importance and piety. That kind of thing doesn't wash with me and you, of all people, should know that by now.

You don't really think your opinion or worldview is important to me do you? We are faceless, nameless people on an internet forum. I real life we wouldn't interact with each other at all.

You have opinions and positions I debate against. It is what a Christian should do, contend for the Gospel against opinions and positions like yours. Nothing more. I look forward to a time when the behaviors you champion are completely "out" in the open to validate ever warning about them that Christian truth declares. This is only the beginning of an abomination that causes desolation. We've seen what paganism does. It is always a repaet of history KID. But always grown the same way. There is nothing different about licentiousness in the 21st century to the degenerate behaviors in the first one. The warnings in the New Testament are as relevant today as they have always been. Truth is not corruptable. Only ignored.

The hostility of this thread shows the incompatible nature of the gay agenda and Christian life.

While Ooberman is rather vocal with his views on Christianity in general the only hostility pertaining to the actual subject matter is that coming from you.

Now you are seeing what brainwashing is. Think about it, Paul and Peter would be called homophobes now. Are actually when quoted huh? Ooberman is just a good example of the spirit of the age. Actually it's quite exciting to see it all going down right in front of our eyes exactly as predicted.

The anti-Christian legions here are supporting your positions and perspectives.

And, the anti-Christian 'legions', by definition, are evil people ...right? I don't believe that they are.

I think it's fascinating that you jumped to the answer as yes but took the other side quickly. I quite enjoy that reaction in you.

In fact, as someone has already observed on (I think) another thread, many of the anti-Christians are remarkably 'Christ-like' in their particular philosophy.

How laughable. An anti-Christ Christ. Interesting that you celebrate that.

Well, OK sad really. But nothing can change the path we are on.

You may want to do a little self-judging KID. Reality cannot be wiped away easily by propaganda. You cannot and never will be able to produce one piece of New Testament scriprture to support your demands for celebrating gay sex within The Church. You will only win your ways where they have always existed outside of The Church. Notice your support groups?

More of your yada yada, 99percent. Listen, you've been asked this question by myself and others but have so far avoided other than with your typical red herrings ...what is it precisely that gays are required to do in order to meet the criteria of being a recognized 'child of God'? Please, just answer the question in language that we can all understand. Thank you.

How can I answer that when repentance is refused and even defined as hate speech if offered?

But what's interesting in this propaganda-strawman ploy you implement, is that you have never, ever, produced one piece of scripture or logic to force the acceptance of homosexuality onto and into The Church.

It's because you can't.

Why not invent your own religion and "welcome and affirm" all the active and passive homosexuals you want to in that environment? why the incessant demands to make The Christian Church support what it cannot? What's next, Voodoo worship "equality" as well? When does the wholesale redefintion of Christian truth stop? Why not allow us the rights of freedom of conscioence and freedom of religion? Why the need to force us to be like you? There is a powerfully odd hypocrisy in the demands of people that scream about "social justice," when at the same time they deamnd to destroy Christian life as it was taught by the very founders of its structure?

Odd is a very passive defintion I might add. If I was allowed to truly define the adversaries of The Church in proper apostolic terms, things would go in a decidely more definitive direction.

[Haven]

"Persecution?" Asking you to accept others based on who they are (NOT who they have sex with; sexual orientation isn't about just sex!) isn't persecution, but shouting hate and condemnation at LGBT people is persecution!

Attitudes like yours are the main reason gay kids kill themselves. Remember that.

[99percentatheism]

[Replying to post 59 by Haven]

Persecution?" Asking you to accept others based on who they are (NOT who they have sex with; sexual orientation isn't about just sex!) isn't persecution, but shouting hate and condemnation at LGBT people is persecution!

Propaganda duly noted. I have yet to hear one sermon shouting at homosexuals. I have though, heard many sermons that are honest and consistent with Christian Truth.

This is why people like KCKID cannot, nor ever will be able to, show support for the new paradigm of gay culture being plied in The Church. That rainbow flag exists outside of The Church and always will. Gay behavior cannot find support in Christian life. It is other-worldy and nothing other that tyranny can force that onto and into The Church.

Attitudes like yours are the main reason gay kids kill themselves. Remember that.

The bigtime propaganda ploy! The Ace up the sleeve as it were.

What causes homosexuals to kill themselves when they are all grown up and living their lives in gay communities? You seem to neglect that reality I see. One of my best friends' "partner" commited suicide with a totally affirming family and commited "partner" supporting him.

Jesus teaches about pulling the log out of ones eyes before they go accusing others of wrongdoing.

Why not invent a religion that admits in all of these so-called depressed kids and "save them?" How come all of the Wiccan and other religions are not "saving" these kids? How dare you blame Christians for what choices others make. I could say that you and your beliefs and worldviews are responsible for the suicides of children once they decide to live a gay, lesbian and Bi-sexual and transgender life.

You have no right to lay their lives and deaths at the feet of Christians. What a bogus bunch of propaganda that is. They are killing themselves in the world and its ways. Please define gay suicides in the gay community, where they exist. In the gay community. Remember that old movie with Sigourney Weaver, where it was attempted to show how Christianity killed her son? It was after his gay lover was promiscuous with another gay guy that he killed himself. I've seen the movie. Why wasn't the gay community, especially the intensity of infidelity engaged in by gay males. the blame for the guy's suicide?

Propaganda? Or persecution of The Church?

Duly noted.