I have heard Christian Evangelicals and Fundamentalists use the phrase that to be saved, one must have a "personal relationship with Jesus" or is one to have a "personal relationship with God THROUGH Jesus" and they say that is what it means to be a Christian.
But it seems to me that ANYONE who prays on their own, (as opposed to only in a congregation) has a personal relationship with God.
Questions for debate,
a) Which is necessary to be a Christian, a "personal relationship with Jesus"? or is it a "personal relationship with God THROUGH Jesus"? Clarification requested here.
and
b) must one be a go through Christ to have a "personal relationship with God" or is a relationship with God available to ALL who pray sincerely,directly and individually to Him? WITHOUT a mediator? Isn't prayer and embracing God's will, (in and of itself) "relationship"?
What does it mean...
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Elijah John
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What does it mean...
Post #1 My theological positions:
-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.
I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.
-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.
I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.
Post #41
[Replying to Overcomer]
The onlyiest problem I see, scanning your FOOD for thought was this one:
The Holy Spirit cannot be the third PERSON of the 'Godhead' since this GODHEAD don't exist. It was never prayed to by name, HAS no name and no worship in directly OBJECT-ive fashion. That is to say, the Holy Spirit is never DIRECTLY worshipped in Bible, much less as an equal God in the Bible.
It COMES in the 'name of' Christ, and was sent by the Father, having been derived from the Father as Source. Jesus prayed first for this Paraclete to come, and God's design and plan came to fore.
There can be little doubt that from the earliest stages of pre-Christian Judaism, spirit (ruach) denoted power"the aweful, mysterious force of the wind (ruach), of the breath (ruach) of life, of ecstatic inspiration (induced by divine ruach)In other words, on this understanding, Spirit of God is in no sense distinct from God, but is simply the power of God, God himself acting powerfully in nature and upon men.[6]
[6] James DG Dunn, Christology in the Making (second edition) 1989, Eerdmans Publishing Co., page 133.
The onlyiest problem I see, scanning your FOOD for thought was this one:
You know, sir this is a PROTO-orthodox view, not seen by the first two generation disciples of Jesus, or the man himself...As I noted in my previous post, the Holy Spirit, who is the third person of the Trinity, is the one doing the speaking through prophets, etc. While the Holy Spirit came upon certain people in the Old Testament to do Gods will, the Holy Spirit now fills all who accept Christ and are converted and born again.
The Holy Spirit cannot be the third PERSON of the 'Godhead' since this GODHEAD don't exist. It was never prayed to by name, HAS no name and no worship in directly OBJECT-ive fashion. That is to say, the Holy Spirit is never DIRECTLY worshipped in Bible, much less as an equal God in the Bible.
It COMES in the 'name of' Christ, and was sent by the Father, having been derived from the Father as Source. Jesus prayed first for this Paraclete to come, and God's design and plan came to fore.
There can be little doubt that from the earliest stages of pre-Christian Judaism, spirit (ruach) denoted power"the aweful, mysterious force of the wind (ruach), of the breath (ruach) of life, of ecstatic inspiration (induced by divine ruach)In other words, on this understanding, Spirit of God is in no sense distinct from God, but is simply the power of God, God himself acting powerfully in nature and upon men.[6]
[6] James DG Dunn, Christology in the Making (second edition) 1989, Eerdmans Publishing Co., page 133.
