Christian Reasons to Support Gay Rights

[micatala]

I offer this thread as a Christian who supports gay rights as an admittedly forward challenge to my brothers and sisters in Christ.

In Acts Ch. 14 and 15, Luke describes James and the other Apostles discussions which led them to exempt Gentiles from well over 99% of the Law of Moses. The main reason they did so was to avoid putting an excessive burden on Gentiles. Implicit in their decision was the issue that expecting everyone to follow these traditional rules, rules that many saw as outdated, would be a drag on the new movement.

Today, we see polls like this one that indicate many young people leaving the church or the faith because of the negative attitude displayed by many religious people towards gays and lesbians.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/2 ... ign=buffer


1) Would it not make sense for Christians to lay aside anti-gay rhetoric, including quoting of Biblical verses that are claimed to condemn homosexuality, if for no other reason than it is counter-productive to evangelism?

2) Does not Jesus' own ministry, and the actions of the Apostles as described in Acts 15 give ample precedent for laying aside Biblical verses that seem to allude to homosexuality?


I will note that Christianity has by and large already set aside many precepts now seen to be archaic, including the idea that women should never speak in church, and that we should simply accept any and all governments as instituted by God and worthy of our obedience. The Declaration of Independence, in particular, repudiates this notion, outlined by Paul in his letters.

I will note that Jesus is quoted in the gospels as explicitly laying aside aspects of the law, and that he was criticized by many of his fellow believers, especially those who were arguably most religious, for doing so.

I will point out that the faith of those conservative believers rather quickly became a small minority as compared to Christianity.


It really comes down to this:

3) Is non-acceptance of homosexuality so central to Christianity that Christians should cling to traditional notions against homosexuality, or can we lay those aside as tangential to the central message of the gospel?

[DanieltheDragon]

[Replying to post 29 by YahDough]

no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.

For the one in authority is Gods servant for your good.

all leaders are established by god all actions by leaders are done in god's service

2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves

this one is obvious failing to submit to authorities is failing to submit to god.

[micatala]

I would also point out that if your government does legalize gay marriage it is god's will and should be obeyed according to Romans 13

YaRight. Maybe it is the will of your god. Not mine.

I think we both agree there is only one God.

I would think you would also agree that you do not own God. It is not your choice whether our God is the same, any more than you can choose who your father or brother is.

I will have to tolerate the bad laws my country makes and hope for the best. Unfortunately, I will also watch it self-destruct if it continues to make those bad laws.

Lk:11:17: But he, knowing their thoughts, said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and a house divided against a house falleth.

Jesus also says he who is not against us for us. If there is a division here, who is causing it? I am certainly not saying people who disagree with my view of Christianity are not Christians, or do not worship the same God as I do.

[micatala]

Then you need to explain how changes to these moral expectations occur and are endorsed in the Bible, even by Jesus himself.

God writes them on "our" hearts. The Holy Ghost teaches and confirms the truth.

Jn:14:26: But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Well, I would suggest that those who wish to accept gays as part of their church could well be following what you write here. Certainly Acts indicates that the council members felt the Holy Spirit agreed with their change.

For myself, I believe the Holy Spirit confirms my conscience on these matters. Consider that Paul allows believers may in good conscience differ, but that we should not judge each other when those differences occur.

[YahDough]

[Replying to post 29 by YahDough]

no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.

The highest authority is Christ Jesus. He trumps all other earthly authorities.

Mt:28:18: And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves

To bad for you. Christ Jesus is in charge, instituted by GOD Himself.

this one is obvious failing to submit to authorities is failing to submit to god

Are you accusing me of something?

[YahDough]

Then you need to explain how changes to these moral expectations occur and are endorsed in the Bible, even by Jesus himself.

God writes them on "our" hearts. The Holy Ghost teaches and confirms the truth.

Jn:14:26: But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Well, I would suggest that those who wish to accept gays as part of their church could well be following what you write here.

I don't, unless it is a false church or it is for the purpose of rehabilitation.

Certainly Acts indicates that the council members felt the Holy Spirit agreed with their change.

I'm not exactly sure what you are talking about. What "council"? What "change"?

I hope you don't think letting Gentiles slide a little in the early Church days regarding church expectations exempt them from following the way of Christ today.

Besides, the Greek word for fornication has a broader definition than we use today. It would cover homosexual behavior. So that logic would fail.

[DanieltheDragon]

[Replying to YahDough]

If jesus is the supreme authority it does not prevent all other authorities from being servants of god and jesus. It seems like you just want to ignore parts of the bible you don't like

[YahDough]

[Replying to YahDough]

If jesus is the supreme authority it does not prevent all other authorities from being servants of god and jesus. It seems like you just want to ignore parts of the bible you don't like

All other "authorities" are at His call. Unfortunately, they are not all His servants.

It is interesting, if not delightful, to see atheists trying to use Bible scripture to accuse Christian believers.

It reminds me of when the devil tried to tempt and "capture" Jesus with scripture when He was in the wilderness.

It seems you want to keep only the parts of the Bible you think you can successfully manipulate. You failed Dragon. Consider yourself slayed.

[bjs]

Micatala, you have done a good job of summing up what is probably the strongest argument in favor of the church saying that homosexual actions should not be considered a sin. I dont have time for a full response right now, but I wanted to ask why you put this in politics sub-forum. You have made an essentially theological argument. Why are you phrasing it a political question?

[DanieltheDragon]

[Replying to post 37 by YahDough]

Sorry I just hold people to a certain standard. If one proclaims they are a christian that comes with a certain standard of belief. Now if you further specify that any of the pauline epistles are herasy I could understand your disagreement of this verse.

However it doesn't say some authority it says ALL authority moreover it says god HANDPICKED all authority.

furthermore it says ALL authority are servants of god.



so you have a choice reject scripture or accept it.

not really my problem just yours.

[YahDough]

[Replying to post 37 by YahDough]

Sorry I just hold people to a certain standard. If one proclaims they are a christian that comes with a certain standard of belief.

Isn't that nice. And atheists don't have to have any standards, right?

Now if you further specify that any of the pauline epistles are herasy I could understand your disagreement of this verse.

The Pauline epistles are a treasury of teachings promoting sanctification in Christ. Do you know what "sanctification" means? Some people quit being Christians for lack of it.

so you have a choice reject scripture or accept it.

You seem to have come up with a third choice: Twist it.