Christian Reasons to Support Gay Rights

[micatala]

I offer this thread as a Christian who supports gay rights as an admittedly forward challenge to my brothers and sisters in Christ.

In Acts Ch. 14 and 15, Luke describes James and the other Apostles discussions which led them to exempt Gentiles from well over 99% of the Law of Moses. The main reason they did so was to avoid putting an excessive burden on Gentiles. Implicit in their decision was the issue that expecting everyone to follow these traditional rules, rules that many saw as outdated, would be a drag on the new movement.

Today, we see polls like this one that indicate many young people leaving the church or the faith because of the negative attitude displayed by many religious people towards gays and lesbians.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/2 ... ign=buffer


1) Would it not make sense for Christians to lay aside anti-gay rhetoric, including quoting of Biblical verses that are claimed to condemn homosexuality, if for no other reason than it is counter-productive to evangelism?

2) Does not Jesus' own ministry, and the actions of the Apostles as described in Acts 15 give ample precedent for laying aside Biblical verses that seem to allude to homosexuality?


I will note that Christianity has by and large already set aside many precepts now seen to be archaic, including the idea that women should never speak in church, and that we should simply accept any and all governments as instituted by God and worthy of our obedience. The Declaration of Independence, in particular, repudiates this notion, outlined by Paul in his letters.

I will note that Jesus is quoted in the gospels as explicitly laying aside aspects of the law, and that he was criticized by many of his fellow believers, especially those who were arguably most religious, for doing so.

I will point out that the faith of those conservative believers rather quickly became a small minority as compared to Christianity.


It really comes down to this:

3) Is non-acceptance of homosexuality so central to Christianity that Christians should cling to traditional notions against homosexuality, or can we lay those aside as tangential to the central message of the gospel?

[YahDough]

[Replying to post 109 by YahDough]

I suppose the problem is agreeing on what the Truth is

This is precisely the problem. What you determine to be the truth might be completely different than what another declares as truth. Very often these conflicting truths cause conflict.

The "Truth" has already been determined by GOD and has been personified in Christ Jesus.

The Holy Ghost sent from GOD in the name of Christ Jesus is the teacher of all truth. Now if we can only get Him some students.

[DanieltheDragon]

[Replying to post 111 by YahDough]

Unfortunately for you this "perceived truth" is not universally accepted indeed only 1/7 of the worlds population agrees with the basic concepts of Christianity yet it is perilously divided on many issues.

Look no further than the theology, doctrine, and dogma section to see how divided people really are.

So the real question is regardless if whether or not your right, how do you create a successful happy society where people have vastly different views on life?

To enforce and support one particular view and nullify all others would create dramatic unrest and oppression among the society. This is why the state must be neutral on the matter.

By being neutral you are creating a free market of ideas for your society were the best ideas can succeed. If your "truth" is indeed the supreme truth there should be no competition among other ideas.

[micatala]

[Replying to post 109 by YahDough]

I suppose the problem is agreeing on what the Truth is

This is precisely the problem. What you determine to be the truth might be completely different than what another declares as truth. Very often these conflicting truths cause conflict.

The "Truth" has already been determined by GOD and has been personified in Christ Jesus.

The Holy Ghost sent from GOD in the name of Christ Jesus is the teacher of all truth. Now if we can only get Him some students.

I will note that those who support toleration, even within the church, towards gay marriage and other issues can also claim to have the support of the Holy Spirit, just as the Apostles did in Acts. Ch. 15. Yahdough claimed earlier that this was a key factor in deciding when it was OK to change teachings, or alter our understanding of the Bible.

He has yet to produce any criteria for deciding why his view should be considered more in line with the Holy Spirit than anyone else's.

[YahDough]

[Replying to post 109 by YahDough]

I suppose the problem is agreeing on what the Truth is

This is precisely the problem. What you determine to be the truth might be completely different than what another declares as truth. Very often these conflicting truths cause conflict.

The "Truth" has already been determined by GOD and has been personified in Christ Jesus.

The Holy Ghost sent from GOD in the name of Christ Jesus is the teacher of all truth. Now if we can only get Him some students.

I will note that those who support toleration, even within the church, towards gay marriage and other issues can also claim to have the support of the Holy Spirit, just as the Apostles did in Acts. Ch. 15.

You can "note" it, but it doesn't make it true.The Holy Spirit does not support sin.

Yahdough claimed earlier that this was a key factor in deciding when it was OK to change teachings, or alter our understanding of the Bible.

Be careful. I don't recall claiming any such thing. I don't make the rules. God does. Sin can bring a country down fast, and tolerance for sin is not much better. When Christians take no stand against sin they do not stand with Christ.

He has yet to produce any criteria for deciding why his view should be considered more in line with the Holy Spirit than anyone else's.

Perhaps you should not call yourself a Christian. The Holy Ghost does not send mixed messages.

[Haven]

The Holy Spirit does not support sin

How do you know:

• 1. Whether or not a holy spirit exists?
  
  2. What she/he/it wants?

I don't see any evidence for the existence of a holy ghost or spirit, and even if one existed, I can't imagine a reliable way to know what it would want or believe.

[YahDough]

The Holy Spirit does not support sin

How do you know:

• 1. Whether or not a holy spirit exists?

I know because I repented, and was baptised into the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins. The Holy Ghost (Spirit) is God's gift for those who do that.

2. What she/he/it wants?[/list]

He is Christ Jesus within us and He wants to teach His followers truth.

Here's what Jesus said about the Holy Ghost aka the Spirit of Truth:

Jn:14:26: But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

[DanieltheDragon]

[Replying to post 116 by YahDough]

How do you know that what you perceive as the trinity is not just a manifestation of your inner consciousness?

[YahDough]

[Replying to post 116 by YahDough]

How do you know that what you perceive as the trinity is not just a manifestation of your inner consciousness?

You called it "the trinity". But it is "Christ within".

The Holy Ghost is a Spirit "manifestation" within the consciousness of Christian believers. "Christ in you, the hope of glory"

Col:1:27: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

[DanieltheDragon]

[Replying to post 118 by YahDough]

alright I get was just trying to cover all my bases for respective readers.

So how do you know that it is not an psychological manifestation of your inner consciousness?

After all we have a two hemispheres in our brain. The communication between the two spheres can create a sense of what you are describing. which is common to most people. Extreme examples of this are people "hearing" voices when it was really just a manifestation of their brain.

So again how do you know?

[YahDough]

[Replying to post 118 by YahDough]

alright I get was just trying to cover all my bases for respective readers.

Why do you have to cover your bases, Dragon? Are they getting shaky?

So how do you know that it is not an psychological manifestation of your inner consciousness?

The Holy Ghost is a He, not an "it" and He is also a "psychological manifestation" of a Christian believer's consciousness.

After all we have a two hemispheres in our brain. The communication between the two spheres can create a sense of what you are describing. which is common to most people. Extreme examples of this are people "hearing" voices when it was really just a manifestation of their brain.

Whatever. I'm not a brain surgeon. Are you?

So again how do you know?

How is it that you don't know?

"And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."-Jesus