Why Do Christians Need the Bible?

[Joe Blackbird]

Here are my questions for debate:

1-If all of creation testifies to the truth of the Bible, why then, if we throw away the Bible and study only nature, is there nothing in nature that would convert someone to Christianity if they had no prior knowledge of it?

2-Why do Christians even use the Bible if all of creation is a witness to the truth of Christianity?

3-Why even try to proselytize if this truth is self-evident?

4-Why dont Bibles grow on trees, or hatch from eggs? Why, if the God who made all of creation inspired it into existence, does the Bible require human processing to exist at all when God allegedly made everything else himself?

[Aristarkos]

Psalm 19:1-4a
"The heavens are telling the glory of God; and the firmament proclaims his handiwork. Day to day pours forth speech, and night to night declares knowledge. There is no speech, nor are there words; their voice is not heard; yet their voice goes out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world."

I don't believe the Bible is the Word of God, but the Bible itself seems to give some support to the study of nature saying something about God.

The fact that we exist and that we exist in a universe that makes life possible might say something about God as being a loving and giving creator, but I dont think nature or the heavens say anything about Christianity in particular.

I think the questions of this topic make a good point, and it seems to me that the point might be that a God that created the entire universe could probably come up with a better way to communicate than the Bible if God wanted to. So, even though the Bible offers wisdom, maybe it was really just written by people.

Another question that supports this point: Why would only people in ancient times be allowed the divine inspiration to write "Gods word"? Ill unload a possible answer: Its hard to argue with dead writers.

.

[melikio]

I think the questions of this topic make a good point, and it seems to me that the point might be that a God that created the entire universe could probably come up with a better way to communicate than the Bible if God wanted to. So, even though the Bible offers wisdom, maybe it was really just written by people.

I think/believe certain parts of it ARE indeed created by human thinking.

But as far as the Bible goes, I believe what I can believe. Some things make so little sense, "God" (if He exists) knows I surely cannot or will not believe them. (It's a long story.)

-Mel-

[Aristarkos]

I think Christians do need the Bible to be Christians, but some use it as a stepping stone. A Baptist pastor once spoke at my Unitarian Universalist church. Here is part of what he said:

"I speak as a Christian, but I am not here to defend the Christian faith. I believe that we are at a critical point in world history, one that demands that we learn to love each other across all barriers of race, religion, or rhetoric. Only then can we fulfill our human destiny and bring about the age of love and light foretold in all the sacred texts. I speak as one who believes my way as a Christian is not the only way, nor is it a better way. It is simply another way. And I also speak as one who believes there is a Higher Way, one that most of our religious systems have yet to define and demonstrate fully, and that is the Way of Universal Love."

http://www.uua.org/aboutuu/index.html

[chachynga]

Should be several reasons.


Here's a couple:


I Peter

1 1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, 2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. 6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations: 7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ: 8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory: 9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. 10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: 11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. 12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into. 13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; 14 As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance: 15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; 16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. 17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear: 18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; 19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, 21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God. 22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: 23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. 24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: 25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.




I Peter

2 1 Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings, 2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby: 3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious. 4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious, 5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. 6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded. 7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, 8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed. 9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: 10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.
11 Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul; 12 Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.
13 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme; 14 Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well. 15 For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men: 16 As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God. 17 Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king. 18 Servants, be subject to your masters with all fear; not only to the good and gentle, but also to the froward. 19 For this is thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully. 20 For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God. 21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: 22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: 23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously: 24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. 25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

[Aristarkos]

Instead of pasting scripture, maybe you could answer one of the four original questions for debate in your own words.

[chachynga]

Instead of pasting scripture, maybe you could answer one of the four original questions for debate in your own words.

I did, if you can not discern the message of the post then the message is not for you.


My Post did apply specifically to the topic, and if you don't like scripture, that's too bad.

[indjohn]

This is going to be a rather disturbing post but it is squarely based on what the Bible claims about itself. I will be quoting only four passages here but rest assured that there are many others in the Bible to collaborate my conclusions

John 14:26But the COMFORTER, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Notice that the Holy Ghost is credited by Jesus for both the writing of the scripture and the interpretation of it. This extends to all that read it. In other words
without the Holy Spirit leading you, you cannot hope to understand the Bible. Here are two other quotes from the Bible that are instrumental in understanding what the Bible claims as its own purpose and about the way it works.
Isaiah 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall ACCOMPLISH that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
2corinthians 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the LETTER, but of the spirit: for the LETTER killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
If you put these scriptures together the conclusion that emerges is unavoidable.
God sends His word to both kill and to give life. If the person that is touched by God's word has the Holy Spirit then the result is life i.e communion with God. If the Holy Spirit is absent and only the letter of the word is present the result is death i.e. separation from God.
As I said before there are many other scriptures to collaborate these conclusions. This makes the Bible a CLOSED book. Without the key which is the Holy Spirit, you cannot enter and this Holy Spirit is the reward that Paul talks about in Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a REWARDER of them that diligently seek him.

Harsh and offensive I know but after all one of the prominent titles given to Jesus is The Rock Of Offense.

[Scrotum]

Instead of pasting scripture, maybe you could answer one of the four original questions for debate in your own words.

Hallelulja, would be rather nice wouldnt it ?

The hing is, it is RARE tha they do, i wonder why, maybe.... Because they cant ?

[Scrotum]

Instead of pasting scripture, maybe you could answer one of the four original questions for debate in your own words.

I did, if you can not discern the message of the post then the message is not for you.


My Post did apply specifically to the topic, and if you don't like scripture, that's too bad.

So instead of answering in your own words, you cut-and-paste and then insult anyone wanting you to actually answer the question. Interesting, it makes me wonder if you even READ what you pasted, or just have pre-made cut-and-paste txt to take from.

So, you gona answer the question now? Plz? One of them?

[chachynga]

This makes the Bible a CLOSED book. Without the key which is the Holy Spirit, you cannot enter and this Holy Spirit is the reward that Paul talks about in Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a REWARDER of them that diligently seek him.

Harsh and offensive I know but after all one of the prominent titles given to Jesus is The Rock Of Offense.

Many keys, Faith, taking action, having other keys and tools is also necessary.

You have to know and understand also, what the words mean.

It's not just believing its Faithing, and stepping out and baptism, and walking on the water, if you start to sink calling our Lord for support....

Sometimes it's just a matter of priming the pump of the words of the water of the Lord Most High. We have to work the handle of the scriptures by priming the pump with a little water and have great faith and believe, by using that one jar of water to pour into the pump, giving and giving and working the pump till that true water swells the seals of the biblical pump to increase the seeds of faith to draw that deep cold well of pure water within.... drink freely, with faith in that Little water that you do have in that Jar to use it back in the well.