The Bible Says So....

[Sntrose]

This is directed to my Christian friends here, coming from an atheist. I have been reading through some of the posts here, and I keep running across the same thing. It's got me very confused. Why is it that when asked a moral question, the answer is "because it is in the Bible." ? The line of logic seems to stop there.

Usually, it is accompanied by a quote from Scripture, and then something along the lines of, "it's clearly in the Bible. So that's why it's a sin. The Bible says so."

What it is about this book that I'm not getting? What kind of book is there that could possibly be so infallible that you would never question it's contents? Nothing can be wrong? Not even a translation error? As long as it's in the Bible, you can relax...it must be right! It's in the Bible. So we don't have to think any more?

I sincerely do not intend this to be insulting. I mean it as a question. Read this in a happy voice...not a sarcastic one. That is the tone I intend...and would prefer the answers to be in....

[daughterofthefaith]

[Replying to post 4 by Divine Insight]

Basically the Bible is infallible because every word it contains is God-inspired and God-breathed. God cannot lie and so all He says is truth and we can accept that. If you don't believe that there is a God all you have to do is look around you or look up at the stars at night! ONLY a tremendous God can have placed each star in its correct place etc It certainly couldn't have all happened through a big bang!

[Danmark]

Basically the Bible is infallible because every word it contains is God-inspired and God-breathed. God cannot lie and so all He says is truth and we can accept that. If you don't believe that there is a God all you have to do is look around you or look up at the stars at night! ONLY a tremendous God can have placed each star in its correct place etc It certainly couldn't have all happened through a big bang!

daughter...,
How do you know God inspired this particular book? The Quran also claims to be 'god inspired.' Let us assume you are absolutely correct that there is indeed a God. How can we tell any particular book that claims to be God inspired actually is?

[daughterofthefaith]

[Replying to post 182 by Danmark]

To answer your question simply i would like to say "thou shalt have no other god before me" But the Bible's validity is in question in this discussion so it doesn't seem like just to quote that commandment would be enough. However, as a result of my firm belief that there is only one true God who inspired men to pen the Bible I cannot use any other argument. To the Muslims Jesus is just a prophet and that Allah is God, while on the other hand we believe that Jesus is the one and only God there is no Allah. So Allah is another god, who is false because the Lord Jesus Christ is the one and only true God and so the Quran cannot be proved valid, seeing as allah is false the Quran is not God inspired and so is also false. That is the best I can do with that.

[Goat]

[Replying to post 4 by Divine Insight]

Basically the Bible is infallible because every word it contains is God-inspired and God-breathed. God cannot lie and so all He says is truth and we can accept that. If you don't believe that there is a God all you have to do is look around you or look up at the stars at night! ONLY a tremendous God can have placed each star in its correct place etc It certainly couldn't have all happened through a big bang!

And how do you know that the bible is infallible? How do you know 'every word is god inspried'.. and 'god breathed'? Can you show evidence of this statement?

Now, when I go look up at stars at night, I see evidecne that the universe is really really big. I do not see that as evidence for God. How is that evidence for God? Is it because it strikes an emotional cord in you, and then just because? It seems like the argument from incredulity to say 'God placed each star in it's correct place'?? How do you know that? Why should that be? Give me the mechanism behind that claim.

[heavensgate]

[Replying to Sntrose]

Hi Sntrose,
I am thinking that in the words of C.S. Lewis that the bible and the good news in it is "like life". There are contrary opinions about just about everything, and quite often answers come from Christians that may not have given a great deal of thought to the issue, but have taken it "on faith" if you like that the prevailing opinion of the church is correct. There is such a vast array of subjects that a Christian could consider but no one can never be an expert in all.
But when you get to the nitty gritty of a particular issue you will find there is much in the bible that is supported by what we see and can measure in real life, and find that the bible probably had some idea of the human capacity for error and sin.
When a Christian may something is "wrong", it really grates against our personal opinion, and it can be seen as arrogant that one could make such a statement.
Give it time. Challenge the Christian to fully explore and explain, you will both grow in that way.
Kind regards
Jim

[daughterofthefaith]

[Replying to Goat]

THe Bible is God-breathed basically because God says so. It is impossible to explain to anyone the validity of the Bible without using the Bible itself. Faith is just believing. It is very simple, God said it so I believe it and when you challenge me and question me about my belief in the God-inspired Scriptures and a Creator God, you are challenging God himself. Because all I am telling you is what God says. You can only do one of two things, take it or sadly leave it.

[McCulloch]

THe Bible is God-breathed basically because God says so.

Unless you claim to have spoken to God directly on this matter and got a direct response, you are wrong. Your argument is that the Bible is God-breathed because a few of the writers of the Bible say so. And they are right, because it is recorded in the Bible, which is God-breathed. This type of erroneous reasoning is called Begging the Question or Circular Reasoning.

A special note to careful readers. There is nowhere in the Bible where any of the writers of the Bible make the claim that the entire Bible is inspired by God. So, even if your argument was not fallacious, it is factually wrong.

It is impossible to explain to anyone the validity of the Bible without using the Bible itself.

Therein lies the difference between religious truth, which cannot be objectively demonstrated as being true and scientific truth which is open to independent validation, making science a far more reliable determination of what is true than revealed religion.

Faith is just believing.

Faith is believing stuff when there is not enough evidence to adequately support belief. Faith is selective gullibility. Why would anyone consider faith a virtue?

It is very simple, God said it so I believe it and when you challenge me and question me about my belief in the God-inspired Scriptures and a Creator God, you are challenging God himself.

No, no, no. We are not challenging God himself. We are challenging the claim, made by believers, that God had anything to do with the composition of the collection of writings now known as the Bible. You presume that the scriptures you have were God-inspired. I make no such presumption.

Because all I am telling you is what God says. You can only do one of two things, take it or sadly leave it.

Before you can claim to be speaking for God, you must demonstrate that it is God who is speaking through you. Before you can claim that any particular book is the revealed word of God, you must demonstrate that it is. Why is the Bible considered the word of God and the Guru Granth Sahib is not? On what basis do you elevate this one particular collection of writings to God's lips but not other writings?

[McCulloch]

Welcome heavensgate

But when you get to the nitty gritty of a particular issue you will find there is much in the bible that is supported by what we see and can measure in real life, and find that the bible probably had some idea of the human capacity for error and sin.

The United States of America fought a war against the King of England establishing the world's first secular nation. Included in the ideas behind that rebellion was the idea that no one should be taxed without representation in their government. The writers of the Bible taught obedience to the King and to pay taxes. In the next century, this same nation fought one of the bloodiest wars in their history to settle the issue of slavery. Bible believing churches were split, on either side of the issue. Now we all recognize slavery as an evil, but at the time, using the Bible, the issue could not be resolved. Then early in the twentieth century, women finally won their long struggle to participate in the electoral process. The writers of the Bible teach that women are more easily deceived than men and should be subject to them. The twenty-first century will see the biblical prejudice against same sex relationships overthrown from our legal systems.

None of these issues would have been resolved the way that they were, if people used the principles taught in the Bible as their moral guide.

[daughterofthefaith]

[Replying to post 187 by McCulloch]

Something I must ask, why did you quote the Bible back to me if you don't even believe it?????

Of course I cannot say that I have spoken to God directly, as in face-to-face, for I have spoken to him through prayer, because God is in heaven and sadly I can't go there until I die!

Read 2 Timothy 3v16 and there you will find a 'claim' about the Scriptures being God-inspired, note the word All.

[Danmark]

[Replying to post 187 by McCulloch]

Something I must ask, why did you quote the Bible back to me if you don't even believe it?????

Of course I cannot say that I have spoken to God directly, as in face-to-face, for I have spoken to him through prayer, because God is in heaven and sadly I can't go there until I die!

Read 2 Timothy 3v16 and there you will find a 'claim' about the Scriptures being God-inspired, note the word All.

There are many reasons for non believer's to quote the Bible:
1. Because YOU accept the Bible as sound evidence, it is a method to help you be lifted by your own petard.
2. To demonstrate the conflicts and contradictions in the Bible.
3. To demonstrate the unreasonableness of the Bible and it's support of ideas that today we see as unfair or immoral, such as the inferior status of women, support of slavery, blaming the victim for his birth defects or injuries.
See Leviticus 21:

For no one who has a blemish shall draw near, a man blind or lame, or one who has a mutilated face or a limb too long, 19 or a man who has an injured foot or an injured hand, 20 or a hunchback or a dwarf or a man with a defect in his sight or an itching disease or scabs or crushed testicles.

There are other reasons, but that's enough for now.