Reasons To Doubt Evolution

WinePusher · Post by **WinePusher** » Thu Apr 03, 2014 9:22 pm

In another thread a user asked for reasons to doubt evolution and, after thinking about the topic, I managed to come up with 3 objections to evolutionary theory:

1. Darwinian evolutionary theory fails to make precise, quantitative predictions. Generally speaking, a typical requirement for legitimate science is that a theory must produce precise, specific, quantitative predictions that will either bear out or falsify the theory itself. Darwinian evolutionary theory lacks this, as it only makes imprecise, abstract, qualitative predictions. Indeed, Stephen Jay Gould suggested that if all of natural history were rewound the mechanism of natural selection wouldn't produce the same species we have now.

2. The fossil record is highly discontinuous and many transitional sequences are nonexistent. Ideally, for evolutionary theory to be completely tight and sound there should be a wide array of transitional forms for every single major morphological change. The fossil record clearly lacks this.

3. Computer simulations of Darwinian evolutionary theory have yet to be successful. Inputting an appropriate algorithm into a computer is something that is done even in upper level undergrad university courses, and it is done to simulate and replicate a continuous process. It appears that attempts at encoding Darwinian mechanisms into an algorithm and inputting them into a computer have failed to yield successful results. I'm don't know much about this particular topic so input from biology experts would be extremely helpful.

Biology isn't my field so I would like to hear some input from other users (preferably those who have actually had academic training in biology like nygreenguy). Is there any truth to these three points?

FarWanderer · Post by **FarWanderer** » Tue May 06, 2014 6:22 am

acehighinfinity wrote:OK, let's start with observing a 'Change of Kind' from one to another? Can you provide evidence e.g. banana to a dog? Give any if you can.

Evolution doesn't work in terms of "kinds".

Banana trees produce very slightly different banana trees, which produce very slightly different banana tress, and so on for countless generations until trees are produced that we're not quiiiiiite sure should be called banana trees. And these banana (?) trees produce new trees until we're pretty sure that the trees being produced aren't banana trees. What are they? Apple trees? No. Pine trees? No. A new species of tree.

Evolution is not directed towards preconceived template species. It's completely fluid, and this remains so even as we continue into the unknown future. The idea that modern bananas will ever evolve into something as precise as another existing species, like modern dogs, is ludicrous.

Even the idea of a modern chimpanzee evolving into a modern human is ludicrous.

acehighinfinity · Post by **acehighinfinity** » Tue May 06, 2014 8:12 am

[Replying to post 198 by Goat]

Now I'm bored Goat! You wanna play 'Ring around the roses'?? You can forget about the definition just get straight to the point; not a single change of specie/kind from one to another have been observed.

As for the other bogus comments, you're not worth my time!

Bust Nak · Post by **Bust Nak** » Tue May 06, 2014 8:52 am

acehighinfinity wrote: Now I'm bored Goat! You wanna play 'Ring around the roses'?? You can forget about the definition just get straight to the point; not a single change of specie/kind from one to another have been observed.

Incorrect. Changes of species can be readily observed. See fruit flies experiments for examples.

McCulloch · Post by **McCulloch** » Tue May 06, 2014 11:02 am

[Replying to post 201 by acehighinfinity]

If we could observe large changes, that would falsify evolution.

Take for example, plate tectonics. We know, based on the evidence, that South America once fit together with Africa and that they are moving away from each other at a rate of something less than 3 centimeters per year. Would it be reasonable for a denier of plate tectonics to insist that geologists show an example of a new continent being created?

Ring species are evidence of evolution. In these examples, the differences are geographical rather than temporal, but the same processes are in place.

Clownboat · Post by **Clownboat** » Tue May 06, 2014 11:35 am

acehighinfinity wrote: [Replying to post 198 by Goat]

Now I'm bored Goat! You wanna play 'Ring around the roses'?? You can forget about the definition just get straight to the point; not a single change of specie/kind from one to another have been observed.

As for the other bogus comments, you're not worth my time!

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. - Socrates

Goat · Post by **Goat** » Tue May 06, 2014 1:30 pm

acehighinfinity wrote: [Replying to post 198 by Goat]

Now I'm bored Goat! You wanna play 'Ring around the roses'?? You can forget about the definition just get straight to the point; not a single change of specie/kind from one to another have been observed.

As for the other bogus comments, you're not worth my time!

In other words, you make outragous claims, and when asked to clarify vague terms, so your issues can be addressed in a rational and logical fashion, it is 'not worth your time'?

Let me ask you , since you know have it as 'species/kind'.. are two different species two different kinds? Do I have to prompt you to that kind of level. I would rather not put words in your mouth. Are two different species two different kinds, yes or no?

Danmark · Post by **Danmark** » Tue May 06, 2014 2:39 pm

acehighinfinity wrote:You wanna play 'Ring around the roses'?? You can forget about the definition just get straight to the point; not a single change of specie/kind from one to another have been observed.

As for the other bogus comments, you're not worth my time!

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acehighinfinity · Post by **acehighinfinity** » Wed May 07, 2014 9:27 am

Clownboat wrote:
acehighinfinity wrote: [Replying to post 198 by Goat]

Now I'm bored Goat! You wanna play 'Ring around the roses'?? You can forget about the definition just get straight to the point; not a single change of specie/kind from one to another have been observed.

As for the other bogus comments, you're not worth my time!
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. - Socrates

haha what debate did you win clown? The bandwagon comments with no real evidence but the tool of the loser is in the lab being falsified. How's the circus going?

acehighinfinity · Post by **acehighinfinity** » Wed May 07, 2014 9:32 am

[Replying to post 205 by Goat]

In other words, you make outragous claims, and when asked to clarify vague terms, so your issues can be addressed in a rational and logical fashion, it is 'not worth your time'?

Let me ask you , since you know have it as 'species/kind'.. are two different species two different kinds? Do I have to prompt you to that kind of level. I would rather not put words in your mouth. Are two different species two different kinds, yes or no?

Look who's talking? You must do this a lot. I will specific here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woOxMkX ... D-&index=3
I found everything you need to know on Hovind debate on Evolution. There are tons of questions if you can't answer then there is no point listing them!

Goat · Post by **Goat** » Wed May 07, 2014 9:35 am

acehighinfinity wrote: [Replying to post 205 by Goat]

In other words, you make outragous claims, and when asked to clarify vague terms, so your issues can be addressed in a rational and logical fashion, it is 'not worth your time'?

Let me ask you , since you know have it as 'species/kind'.. are two different species two different kinds? Do I have to prompt you to that kind of level. I would rather not put words in your mouth. Are two different species two different kinds, yes or no?
Look who's talking? You must do this a lot. I will specific here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woOxMkX ... D-&index=3
I found everything you need to know on Hovind debate on Evolution. There are tons of questions if you can't answer then there is no point listing them!

I don't debate videos, particularly badly put together ones. I am curious, do you understand what he is trying to say, and can you , ok.. let's take the top 5, in your opinion and we can discuss those misconceptions.