Are there good reasons to believe that a god exists?

[Jashwell]

"Are there good reasons to believe that a god exists?"

Doesn't seem like much preamble is needed, but expect this largely to be filled (if at all) with arguments in favour of the existence of a God and counter-arguments. (Because the question is not "Are there good reasons to believe that a god does not exist?"). Though if you do think you have a good argument that shows it is reasonable to believe God does not exist, that is also valid.

This question comes up a lot in other threads where various classical arguments (e.g. ontological, axiological, cosmological) have been given in those threads.

If possible, try not to shotgun debate by raising lots of arguments at once. One sound argument should be sufficient.

[connermt]

[Replying to post 6 by dianaiad]

I am astounded beyond belief that humankind has crawled out of caves and developed language over and above grunts and finger pointing at the nearest edible animal.

You're not the only one who would be astounded.

Are there any reasons why those who do believe chose to believe, say, in a god rather than a Buddhist view of the world, where there is no god, but there is a continuum of life?

I'm sure there are but you'd probably have to ask a Buddhist or, at least, one familiar with said beleif.

Why believe in a deity rather than in one's ancestors, for instance?

Power and abilities I would suspect, along with what others have told them about the deity

Can you think of why someone might go there instead of elsewhere...without deciding that everybody who might want to believe in a deity is, obviously, taking too many life lessons from Forest Gump?

People believe in a lot of things. Many make little to no sense at all. That's, in part, what makes a person a person - silly, uneducated, unrealistic, weird, odd, funny, stupid, hopeful &/or unsupported beliefs.

[connermt]

[Replying to post 8 by Peter]

God belief only exists on this planet because people want it. Remember, you can get people to believe anything at all no matter how ridiculous if you can only figure out how to make them want to believe it. The gospel of prosperity is a good example. "Hey, if you're poor and you want money just believe what I'm telling you and wealth will flow your way. Oh yes, leave a generous donation on your way out please.

Could NOT have been said any better. Well done!

[Apollo]

If we define "good" as, "reliable method of determining the accuracy of claims" then I've never heard a good reason.

[JoeyKnothead]

From the OP:

Are there good reasons to believe that a god exists?

"Good" reasons don't make 'em any more valid than there the sit, they's "good".

But now that ya asked it, on what ungodly planet would a pretty girl - now she's pretty mind you, not just some chick in a closing bar - and here it is, she'll get up and fix me breakfast, and not put it all up 'til after I got up and ate?

God is our aspiration. God is what we want, but don't hafta show is. Only it is, God ain't there to do it, only the notion of God, well that gets a good bunch of it done for some of 'em.

[JoeyKnothead]

From Post 2:

The problem with your question is this: I don't believe in God because I first thought there might be good reasons to do so. I find that there are good reasons to believe BECAUSE I first believe in God.

"I believe in God...

And, given enough time, I'll think me up a good reason for having done it."

(please see referenced post for contextual fullerationing)


I dare say that none believe in something, that they ain't got 'em a 'good' reason for it.

Wrong reason, but there we go.

[Gracchus]

[Replying to post 1 by Jashwell]

"Are there good reasons to believe that a god exists?"

There are plenty, here's a couple off the top of my head:
some people need something 'bigger' than themselves protecting and befriending them to get them through life (protect me oh lord!)
some people need something that can't be fully understood to understand things of our lives they can't/won't try to understand (aka god did it!)
some people need something untouchable to hide behind once they become aggressive towards other people/groups (god says it's bad so it is - deal with it!)
some people need to get to heaven and society tells them 'a god' is the only way to do this
Basically, many people need 'a god' to function through life. They can be lazy and uneducated, as well as superstitious and easily manipulated with fear and guilt and highly able to accept suggestiveness under the right person.

None of the reasons you gave are good reasons to believe in a God.

On the contrary, they are actually extremely poor reasons.

I invoke Poe's Law.

[Zzyzx]

.

"Good" reasons don't make 'em any more valid than there the sit, they's "good".

In many (most?) cases there is a good reason and a real reason.

The good reason is what is put forth for public consumption (or to fortify one's position).

The real reason is the actual motivating factor.

People often go to great length to conceal their real reasons by inventing and emphasizing a lot of good reasons.

[Swrrws]

.

"Good" reasons don't make 'em any more valid than there the sit, they's "good".

In many (most?) cases there is a good reason and a real reason.

The good reason is what is put forth for public consumption (or to fortify one's position).

The real reason is the actual motivating factor.

People often go to great length to conceal their real reasons by inventing and emphasizing a lot of good reasons.

Let me just say I like the personal tone this discussion has taken. I will share my actual motivating factor. My belief in God is the only thing that has succeeded in keeping me sober, out of jail, and alive.

What started me on this track was when I was challenged on my belief system or lack therof. This person was a Christian and I decided to do my research and prove this whole Jesus thing wrong to him. It didnt go as planned.

Here are the initial things which started the wheels turning:
-the historicity of Jesus
-the conversion of Saul/Paul and James
-the martyrdom of the apostles

As for a theistic proof removed from Christianity I find the moral law argument to be the most convincing. Although it wasnt what convinced me.

[Apollo]

[Replying to post 18 by Swrrws]

Great to hear from you. =)


1) Historicity of Jesus
Many historians believe there is sufficient evidence that a man called Jesus probably existed and did many things described. However, the supernatural claims do not have enough evidence to support them. Can you demonstrate reliable, historical evidence of the magical things claimed in the bible? Can you demonstrate it more concretely than the evidence we have for alien abductions today?

It's perfectly possible that a man called Jesus walked the earth and said a lot of interesting things. It's also possible that the supernatural side of things got added on later to make the stories cooler. There's a theory that the same thing happened with Dracula - that the stories were based on a real person later endowed with vampire powers. The folklore surrounding Davy Crocket is another solid example, in a day with a lot more evidence surrounding and supporting his existence.

Ultimately, even if the bible is right that Jesus existed (without evidence enough to support the miracle claims) - that doesn't mean the rest of it is correct. Being right about some things doesn't mean you're right about the more extraordinary claims. If people start worshiping Spiderman in the far future - and then they find the ruins of New York City as described in the Spiderman comics, should the conclusion be "The comics were right about the historicity of New York City - Spiderman must be real." Is that reasonable?


2) Conversion of St. Paul and James
I can point to evidence of people claiming religious experiences and converting to all sorts of different religions and supernatural beliefs in the modern world that directly contradict each other. Clearly, conversion stories aren't great evidence of truth. Mormonism is growing quickly, as is atheism. What makes these stories special?


3) I can point to many, many, many people in different religions - most popularly Islam - willing to die for what they believe in without evidence to support it. What makes this claim special?

[Divine Insight]

Let me just say I like the personal tone this discussion has taken. I will share my actual motivating factor. My belief in God is the only thing that has succeeded in keeping me sober, out of jail, and alive.

Have you ever considered what this sounds like to atheists who don't get drunk, don't get into trouble with the law, and live productive wholesome lives all on their own without any need to believe in a God?

It also brings up other serious philosophical questions. Would you actually rather be breaking the law?

The idea that the only reason you are not drunk or in trouble with the law is because you believe in a God is not impressive at all.