Characteristics Of God

[connermt]

I once heard a preacher say 'god is a jealous god!' and the reaction of the congregation was a positive form of acceptance " a lot of amens and nods of approval. Is this true?
Jealousy seems to have a negative connotation as Merriam says here: an unhappy or angry feeling of wanting to have what someone else has
Is god jealous? And if so, jealous of what/who?
What other characteristics does god have?
Or does god, by means of being perfect, have all characteristics - good and bad?

[Cephus]

[Replying to post 6 by Cephus]

The problem is, there's no way to know any of God's supposed characteristics because nobody actually has God to examine to make those determinations.

Even if we have direct line to god (as some suggest) imperfect beings trying to understand a perfect one...? good luck

I'm not even worried about a perfect understanding, I'm interested in how theists have *ANY* understanding at all about the real characteristics of their gods. They've never had their gods to study and neither have any of the people who wrote about the gods in the past. That these ancient writers were somehow guided by the gods is just an empty assertion, just like the claim that Voldemort somehow guided the hand of J.K. Rowling when she wrote the Harry Potter books. It's absurd and unsupportable. It's just people making stuff up that appeals to them.

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 9 by 1213]

I don't really think that excuse is valid. God is a jealous god because he wants you to have no other god but him. If a husband is jealous of another man, he isn't just anxious about losing his wife, he envies the feelings he thinks his wife has or may have in the future for that man. I think the same can be said for God. He envies any importance a human gives to any god other than him. He wants it all for himself.
.

IF YHVH is the true God, (and I believe He is) then it is not out of line for him to wish to have total devotion from His people. Rather than have His people give their worship and devotion to false Gods, made of wood and stone. The Living God, vs lifeless ones.

And this desire (command) on His part for total devotion would be for the good of His people. All this , of course, is dependent on the premise that YHVH IS the Living, the only God.

If one disputes that premise, then of course it seems unreasonable for YHVH to desire or command that devotion.

But if one accepts that premise, it is not at all unreasonable.

And that desire of YHVH to be in exclusive relationship with His people, is filtered from His people's point of view as being "jealous" and this imperfect, human metaphor describes how it seems to them, the early scribes of the Bible.

In general, it is quite possible for a real, generous and perfect Living God, to be IMPERFECTLY perceived and described by His people. The People's perception is not always or necessarily a perfect reflection on the true character of the Living God.

[connermt]

[Replying to post 9 by 1213]

Do you not find it convenient that, out of the two definitions you use, you pick the one that's not negative to describe your god? Do you not see that is biased?

[connermt]

[Replying to post 11 by Cephus]

I'm not even worried about a perfect understanding, I'm interested in how theists have *ANY* understanding at all about the real characteristics of their gods.

Interesting. Do you not think that an imperfect being can understand anything of a perfect one? Just curious.

That these ancient writers were somehow guided by the gods is just an empty assertion, just like the claim that Voldemort somehow guided the hand of J.K. Rowling when she wrote the Harry Potter books. It's absurd and unsupportable.

While I agree it's absurd to the point of being silly, I won't say it's unsupported(able) simply because it's supported by their claim. Though, that's splitting hairs really

It's just people making stuff up that appeals to them.

Yes X2

[connermt]

[Replying to post 12 by Elijah John]

IF YHVH is the true God, (and I believe He is) then it is not out of line for him to wish to have total devotion from His people.

It probably depends on how one accept 'perfection'. Some say it's 'all things good' while others say it's 'all things lacking nothing'.
But I'm sure someone else will have another definition of 'perfect' or, maybe even, not agree god's perfect. Par for the course with christianity.
But if one's jealous of another, that seems to point to a lack of confidence within themselves.
If I'm jealous of you, you obviously have something I want/don't have. A rich and happy man, with the perfect family (in whatever term that means) won't typically be jealous of a homeless man sleeping on park benches.

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 12 by Elijah John]

IF YHVH is the true God, (and I believe He is) then it is not out of line for him to wish to have total devotion from His people.

It probably depends on how one accept 'perfection'. Some say it's 'all things good' while others say it's 'all things lacking nothing'.
But I'm sure someone else will have another definition of 'perfect' or, maybe even, not agree god's perfect. Par for the course with christianity.
But if one's jealous of another, that seems to point to a lack of confidence within themselves.
If I'm jealous of you, you obviously have something I want/don't have. A rich and happy man, with the perfect family (in whatever term that means) won't typically be jealous of a homeless man sleeping on park benches.

The "thing" in question is the devotion and worship due God. I believe He is perfect in the sense that He lacks nothing, and He, as you put it, contains or is "all things good"

If that is the case,( and again, I believe that it is, )then his call for exclusivity in devotion is not unreasonable, and is for the good of His People, as He is the Living God, imo.

But from the peoples point of view, and with their use of imperfect metaphor, this command for exclusivity is portrayed as a "jealous" element of His character.

And I think there may be some interpretative and cultural shadings of this term in translation, so that is not necessarily pejorative. But even if not, that is how imperfect people described a perfect God.

[connermt]

[Replying to post 16 by Elijah John]

The "thing" in question is the devotion and worship due God.

I find that statement almost arrogant and somewhat condescending if it's directed towards us and not said in general. Please clarify which it is to avoid confusion.

I believe He is perfect in the sense that He lacks nothing, and He, as you put it, contains or is "all things good"

If that is the case...

Then one would understand where you come from in your POV.
What I find interesting is how one picks which definition they want to apply. Not that there's anything wrong with picking one of the other, simply that it seems one picks the definition that appeases their sensibilities and fits within their world most times.

And I think there may be some interpretative and cultural shadings of this term in translation, so that is not necessarily pejorative. But even if not, that is how imperfect people described a perfect God.

A good point to make, considering how ineffective language can be over time and/or thru different societies.
It makes me wonder why this great god can't communicate in a more accurate, succinct manner?
Perhaps, it's because this god isn't really a god in the true definition, but created by ourselves with our own flaws, characteristics, POVs, etc?

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 16 by Elijah John]

The "thing" in question is the devotion and worship due God.

I find that statement almost arrogant and somewhat condescending if it's directed towards us and not said in general. Please clarify which it is to avoid confusion.

I believe He is perfect in the sense that He lacks nothing, and He, as you put it, contains or is "all things good"

If that is the case...

Then one would understand where you come from in your POV.

Yes, that is my POV, when I say "due God" not specifically addressing or admonishing non-believers. It is a general statement, shorthand for my Theistic perspective.

From my point of view, that is between the individual and God, whom I realize, you do not believe exists.

Of course I wish all would worship whom I see as the True God, but again, this is a hope of mine, not an admonishment for anyone to do so.

[higgy1911]

[Replying to post 16 by Elijah John]

All depends on ones definition of perfect. In my opinion a perfect being wouldn't be due or desire any worship. We may worship, but perfection neither deserves nor commands it.
If God is truly perfect He can't possibly feel like he is missing out by people worshiping other Gods. He can always intervene and show them their errors. That he does not, is telling of his virtues.

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 16 by Elijah John]

And I think there may be some interpretative and cultural shadings of this term in translation, so that is not necessarily pejorative. But even if not, that is how imperfect people described a perfect God.

A good point to make, considering how ineffective language can be over time and/or thru different societies.
It makes me wonder why this great god can't communicate in a more accurate, succinct manner?
Perhaps, it's because this god isn't really a god in the true definition, but created by ourselves with our own flaws, characteristics, POVs, etc?

Don't think that necessarily follows. You make a good point in wondering why God can't (or won't ) communicate in a more incorruptible and lucid way, but I do not know, free will of the scribes perhaps? Not sure.

But the fact that imperfect people get or got it wrong in some respects does not necessitate the conclusion that therefore there cannot be an objective and real (as opposed to a man-created, subjective, imaginary) God.