Getting What One Deserves

[connermt]

Bob is not a christian. He gets promoted, find the love of his life, has a wonderful family, lives a long life full of love and happiness and dies a peaceful death.

Mary is a christian. She can't keep a job for more than 6 months, she has no friends or family, she's battled a disease since she was 13 - it won't kill her, just make her life horrible - and dies a painful, lonely death.

Ted is a christian vacationing in a anti-christian country. He gets kidnapped, tortured and dies a painful slow death because he is a christian.

Ryan is not a christian vacationing in the same country as Ted at the same time. He has a good time and comes home safe.

Donna is a christian and works in an office whose family owned and operated company consists of 5 people total. She pontificates her view at work one day and from that point forward, she gets shunned chastised and made fun of.

Do these people deserve what they received in the above examples because of their beliefs or lack of?

Or should everyone be treated equally and, in this way, they deserve the equal treatment they receive?

[dianaiad]

Bob is not a christian. He gets promoted, find the love of his life, has a wonderful family, lives a long life full of love and happiness and dies a peaceful death.

Mary is a christian. She can't keep a job for more than 6 months, she has no friends or family, she's battled a disease since she was 13 - it won't kill her, just make her life horrible - and dies a painful, lonely death.

Ted is a christian vacationing in a anti-christian country. He gets kidnapped, tortured and dies a painful slow death because he is a christian.

Ryan is not a christian vacationing in the same country as Ted at the same time. He has a good time and comes home safe.

Donna is a christian and works in an office whose family owned and operated company consists of 5 people total. She pontificates her view at work one day and from that point forward, she gets shunned chastised and made fun of.

Do these people deserve what they received in the above examples because of their beliefs or lack of?

Or should everyone be treated equally and, in this way, they deserve the equal treatment they receive?

SHOULD they? What, you think that Bob should have had a miserable life, and Mary should have had his good one? Perhaps Ryan and Ted should change places?

Please pardon me, but given the way you described Donna's "pontificating," I have the feeling that you do think that she 'got what she deserved' at her workplace.

Whose fault IS it that Ted was kidnapped and tortured...and that Donna was mocked and made fun of? Whose fault is it that Mary had a miserable life and died lonely? From your stories, it's obvious that the folks who did the mocking, the kidnapping and the shunning were NOT Christian. Ironic, that, given your rather obvious point.

There's an old proverb about how the rain falls equally upon the just and unjust alike; bad things happen to good people, and good things happen to bad ones...and nobody is all good or bad. Christianity...indeed, any religious faith, isn't about making certain that good things happen to you. It's about helping you handle what does happen to you.

Look....we are all of us going to die. Every single one of us; some sooner than others, and some will go easier than others, but we're all going. Our lives, whether we believe that there is something after death or not, are what we have to show; how we handle what happened.

Now me, I'm very happy for Bob. I hope that Mary's faith was of some comfort to her, since Christian or not, she'd have still been ill. (Certainly, none of your examples above give one any hope that NOT being Christian would have been helpful in her circumstance.)

I mean, really, think about it: in your examples, above, Ted and Donna were attacked by non-Christians, and Ryan and Bob were not, because they were on the side of the folks who did the attacking, shunning and murdering? This by you is a good thing?

Perhaps you should think up better examples.

Or ask a better question.

After all, the suffering you describe above was not inflicted BY Christians...or by God...but by humans. Who could have decided not to do it.

[connermt]

[Replying to post 2 by dianaiad]

SHOULD they?

Shouldn't they be treated equally you mean?

What, you think that Bob should have had a miserable life, and Mary should have had his good one?

Obviously, you don't have an answer. That will be your answer here. Thank you

Whose fault IS it that Ted was kidnapped and tortured...and that Donna was mocked and made fun of?

Some would say your jin like deity you call god is at fault. Others would say it's the fault of the individuals. Still others would say it's no one's fault - things just happen

From your stories, it's obvious that the folks who did the mocking, the kidnapping and the shunning were NOT Christian.

No, what's obvious is you making poor assumptions as I said no such thing

...Ted and Donna were attacked by non-Christians, and Ryan and Bob were not, because they were on the side of the folks who did the attacking, shunning and murdering?

Again, you're making poor assumptions as I said no such thing

Perhaps you should think up better examples.

Perhaps you should come up with ANY questions instead of insulting those of us who do?

he suffering you describe above was not inflicted...by God...

Some would disagree entirely.

[dianaiad]

[Replying to post 2 by dianaiad]

SHOULD they?

Shouldn't they be treated equally you mean?

That is the question, isn't it? In your examples, the people who were doing the mean and murderous things were the non-Christians. If your question is about being treated equally, isn't it a bit ironic that the villains of your examples seemed to be, er...non-Christian? Perhaps you should be more clear about who is supposed to be issuing the 'equal' treatment.

What, you think that Bob should have had a miserable life, and Mary should have had his good one?

Obviously, you don't have an answer. That will be your answer here. Thank you

Asking a question is not the same as providing an answer, connermt. The problem here is that I honestly don't understand what you are asking or what your point is.

So I'm asking questions.

Answer or not as you choose.

Whose fault IS it that Ted was kidnapped and tortured...and that Donna was mocked and made fun of?

Some would say your jin like deity you call god is at fault. Others would say it's the fault of the individuals. Still others would say it's no one's fault - things just happen

Some would, would they? What do you say?

From your stories, it's obvious that the folks who did the mocking, the kidnapping and the shunning were NOT Christian.

No, what's obvious is you making poor assumptions as I said no such thing

C'mon, connermt. Even the SAT designers would allow the inference that non-Christians were the culprits in those examples, given your emphasis that it was the Christians who suffered where the non-Christians did not.

...Ted and Donna were attacked by non-Christians, and Ryan and Bob were not, because they were on the side of the folks who did the attacking, shunning and murdering?

Again, you're making poor assumptions as I said no such thing

Your implication was obvious. I rather doubt that many would not infer this from your examples, whether you meant to include it or not, it is certainly there. If you did not mean to put it there, then the fault is in your writing, not our reading. Try different examples if you don't like where they took me.

Perhaps you should think up better examples.

Perhaps you should come up with ANY questions instead of insulting those of us who do?

There was no insult, either intended or unintended. You need to choose better examples that will illustrate your point better, because frankly, I don't get it.

While it is possible that the fault is in my comprehension rather than in your presentation, I really don't have a huge problem in that area, being fairly good at deciphering written text. Try it again. If I still don't get it, then the matter is settled; it's me, not you.

he suffering you describe above was not inflicted...by God...

Some would disagree entirely.

Some would. I don't. How about you? Do YOU think their suffering is inflicted by God?

Here's the thing, connermt: in your examples, the suffering is inflicted by those who do not share the beliefs of those being persecuted and hurt: by people, not God. Their choices, their actions.

Do not attack me and argue with me as if I believed that God is responsible, or as if I am somehow at fault because I don't believe that God is responsible. If you want to attack me or my beliefs, do yourself the favor of going for the beliefs I actually hold.

[connermt]

[Replying to post 4 by dianaiad]

Asking a question is not the same as providing an answer, connermt.

Which is why you provide a question and not an answer

Some would, would they? What do you say?

Be careful what you ask for - I'm not sure you'd like that answer

C'mon, connermt.

If you can't overlook this need of yours to make assumptions, and deal with the questions asked as asked, I can't help you.

There was no insult, either intended or unintended.

Saying so doesn't change the fact it was a (not very good) veiled insult.

Do YOU think their suffering is inflicted by God?

Perhaps directly, but absolutely indirectly. Everything rolls up to god if it's the god it's claimed to be by many christians (which is to say the alpha omega being end creator etc).

the suffering is inflicted by those who do not share the beliefs of those being persecuted and hurt...

That's your assumption and never claimed by the examples.

Do not attack me and argue with me as if I believed that God is responsible...

Who said anything of the sort - that you believe anything?
Seems like you're getting upset for the sake of getting upset.

[connermt]

For some reason this thread has derailed. It's not about who did what in the provided examples, but if the actions were deserved or not.
Deserved or not based on their lives, NOT on the ones who 'did the hurtful actions'.
Let's get back on track.