Are there good reasons to believe that a god exists?

[Jashwell]

"Are there good reasons to believe that a god exists?"

Doesn't seem like much preamble is needed, but expect this largely to be filled (if at all) with arguments in favour of the existence of a God and counter-arguments. (Because the question is not "Are there good reasons to believe that a god does not exist?"). Though if you do think you have a good argument that shows it is reasonable to believe God does not exist, that is also valid.

This question comes up a lot in other threads where various classical arguments (e.g. ontological, axiological, cosmological) have been given in those threads.

If possible, try not to shotgun debate by raising lots of arguments at once. One sound argument should be sufficient.

[Zzyzx]

.

The key issue is whether something can come from nothing.

Correction: The key issue is the OP question "Are there good reasons to believe that a god exists?"

The "something from nothing" vs "something from a god (that cannot be shown to be anything more than imaginary) argument is a theoretical question that neither proves or disproves involvement of a "god" but is a common diversionary tactic for those who cannot cite actual reasons for existence of "gods."

Some small number of atheists have acknowledged that something cannot come from nothing, but the vast majority claim that something can come from nothing. However, none has provided a single example, relying instead on evasion of the issue.

Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that most Atheists have not stated a position on the "something from nothing" issue.

Therefore, I declare victory for the Deists.

Declarations of "victory" are generally regarded as inaccurate, inappropriate, and as a form of self-aggrandizement.

[Jashwell]

[Replying to post 180 by kenblogton]

All have been refuted.
There are many leaps/non-sequiturs which just have massive jumps between the proposition and the conclusion.

1. The existence of something in no way leads to the conclusion that a god exists or did exist.
The following doesn't actually depend on any specific definition of nothing:
Using the dichotomy that you yourself have created "something comes from something or something comes from nothing" - the creative entity either came from something or nothing. But it cannot come from nothing (according to you), therefore it must have come from something. But if it came from something, it isn't God. Alternatively, you can reject the dichotomy, in which case something doesn't need to "come from something", it can simply not come for example.

Not to mention that "creative entity" is a leap to say the least - where do you even get creative entity from?

The actual question is of course presumptive and loaded. There's insufficient justification to expect that their is a reason.

2. Change of a thing does not imply that thing began in the sense of came into existence. Change does not imply coming into existence. This is another non-sequitur. Please show the logical stages of thought between "it changes" and "it comes into existence".
"A creative entity is needed to begin or cause a changing something which was preceded by nothing" I see no justification for that.

3. Appeals to the entity can't be a justification for the existence of said entity.
4. 1) Argument from ignorance; 2) Occam's razor

[ThePainefulTruth]

"Are there good reasons to believe that a god exists?"

Doesn't seem like much preamble is needed, but expect this largely to be filled (if at all) with arguments in favour of the existence of a God and counter-arguments. (Because the question is not "Are there good reasons to believe that a god does not exist?"). Though if you do think you have a good argument that shows it is reasonable to believe God does not exist, that is also valid.

This question comes up a lot in other threads where various classical arguments (e.g. ontological, axiological, cosmological) have been given in those threads.

If possible, try not to shotgun debate by raising lots of arguments at once. One sound argument should be sufficient.

No. There is absolutely no evidence for or against the existence of a supernatural creator. Therefore nothing either way on which to hang even the weakest of beliefs. Hope is all we have, even for the atheists since for nothing else, they'd at least be able to say they were right. But of course none of them would ever know it. But self-declared delusion (certainty) can make them feel warm and fuzzy in this life at least.

[jcb]

[Replying to post 1 by Jashwell]

I'll start with this scripture then explain my position on does God exist.

Romans 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made,

Science, medical and other, openly say that nothing is impossible. it is only a question of time to when they will understand how to make/do/perform anything imaged. For centuries, and even in recent day, people, Michelangelo for 1, have imaged things in there minds before it was understood how to make/do whatever. History has proven beyond the slightest of doubts, the knowledge to do whatever has been in the minds of we humans for centuries.. even from the beginning. This knowledge has not evolved, it has been understood to perfection, and is being understood more and more as time goes by. Since History and Biblical record have proven this knowledge has always been in the mind, is eventually understood and has not, does not and cannot change, it had to be put there by some source that had the knowledge and ability to put in the mind.

The first thing a person needs to understand if God exists, is to understand what God is: I'm not saying who.. I'm saying WHAT. The Bible is the only place to find the answer, which is one of the easiest things to understand in the Bible.

Ask John.. He explains it very clearly

[ThePainefulTruth]

[Replying to post 1 by Jashwell]

I'll start with this scripture then explain my position on does God exist.

Romans 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made,

Science, medical and other, openly say that nothing is impossible. it is only a question of time to when they will understand how to make/do/perform anything imaged. For centuries, and even in recent day, people, Michelangelo for 1, have imaged things in there minds before it was understood how to make/do whatever. History has proven beyond the slightest of doubts, the knowledge to do whatever has been in the minds of we humans for centuries.. even from the beginning. This knowledge has not evolved, it has been understood to perfection, and is being understood more and more as time goes by. Since History and Biblical record have proven this knowledge has always been in the mind, is eventually understood and has not, does not and cannot change, it had to be put there by some source that had the knowledge and ability to put in the mind.

The first thing a person needs to understand if God exists, is to understand what God is: I'm not saying who.. I'm saying WHAT. The Bible is the only place to find the answer, which is one of the easiest things to understand in the Bible.

Ask John.. He explains it very clearly

Yes, God is Truth, and the Truth shall give you free will, free even from the influence of God so that you and God know that your choices are your own.

[Danmark]

[Replying to post 1 by Jashwell]

I'll start with this scripture then explain my position on does God exist.

Romans 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made,

This is nothing more than a statement of creationism, made by a man 2000 years ago who did not have a clue about evolution, modern cosmology, or knowledge of causes of virtually any natural phenomenon. Paul can be excused because others of his time and location and culture were similarly ignorant. Today, an educated man has no such excuse.

[ThePainefulTruth]

[Replying to post 1 by Jashwell]

I'll start with this scripture then explain my position on does God exist.

Romans 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made,

This is nothing more than a statement of creationism, made by a man 2000 years ago who did not have a clue about evolution, modern cosmology, or knowledge of causes of virtually any natural phenomenon. Paul can be excused because others of his time and location and culture were similarly ignorant. Today, an educated man has no such excuse.

All true except that Paul cannot be excused. He made up more false religious Big Lies that stuck than all the priests and shaman's before and since.

[jcb]

[Replying to post 1 by Jashwell]

I'll start with this scripture then explain my position on does God exist.

Romans 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made,

This is nothing more than a statement of creationism, made by a man 2000 years ago who did not have a clue about evolution, modern cosmology, or knowledge of causes of virtually any natural phenomenon. Paul can be excused because others of his time and location and culture were similarly ignorant. Today, an educated man has no such excuse.

All true except that Paul cannot be excused. He made up more false religious Big Lies that stuck than all the priests and shaman's before and since.

You made an habitual comment on the verse. Why didn't you make a comment on the other well known facts I included that cannot be disputed.

[ThePainefulTruth]

[Replying to post 188 by jcb]

You said, "The Bible is the only place to find the answer, which is one of the easiest things to understand in the Bible."

How do I get past that, which says science is irrelevant, and hearsay is proof.

[jcb]

[Replying to post 188 by jcb]

You said, "The Bible is the only place to find the answer, which is one of the easiest things to understand in the Bible."

How do I get past that, which says science is irrelevant, and hearsay is proof.

I said the Bible is the only place to find answers about God. I also said finding WHAT (not who) God is, is one of the easiest things to find in the Bible. Nothing of what I have said, and nothing of what the Bible has written, says science is irrelevant. In fact, science is very relevant because it goes hand in hand with the Bible. It is just a question of time and research as to when science will declare (in their terminology) that there is a God. This very day science is on the verge of making this announcement, because they are not far from conclusive proof to what they publicly announced a few short years ago.

You and I are pretty much in the same boat with the same goal. Your approach will never convince anyone on your position. My approach, if the mindset of people does not change, I also will be no more successful than you.

I am not a typical believer, nor am I a member of any religious organization, sect or other. My position is, in a few words, they have a whole lot to learn to get it right.